[Zarium]

I think having the isine10 spoils the LCDi4 for me. Tried the i4 today and while it is clearly better than the iSine10. it's not exactly miles away. It's more like hearing 2 different headphones but equally unique for an in-ear. soundstage and presentation is like no other iems can match. The LCDi4 do resolve more details but it seems too much for some recordings. While the iSine10 maintains the fun listening experience no matter what music I throw at it. The iSine10 with the cipher cable plus my iPhone7 makes a very impressive portable audiophile setup. (The latest Hiby Music app puts the current DAPs to shame in terms of UI and navigation)

It makes me rethink my position as far as portable audiophile system goes.

Interesting. A lot of people say the i4 is leagues ahead of the iSines and I’ve been waiting for the shop to get a demo unit in so I can decide if it’s worthwhile an upgrade over my isine 20, which i use with the cipher. Your anecdote is a valuable counterpoint—if it’s only a marginal improvement then I’ll be contented enough with the 20 and won’t have to go around scrounging for funds for the i4!

 

[AlwaysForward]

Much of the reason I landed on the iSine is because of it's portability and ability to make calls. The Cipher cable was a huge contributor to my purchase decision on these and I could not be more happy with them.

For me, headphones have to fit my lifestyle first and foremost. I guess I'm outside the typical headfi member demographic there but I just can't imagine lugging around extra components outside of my phone/headphones with all the available high fidelity options that hook right into my phone.

It's probably due to my interest in hifi cans being sparked by owning the Blue MoFi which follows this paradigm quite well.

Anyway, it seems the general feedback is that the i4 is worth the price for the TOTL performance if you're one who's willing to drop the $$$$ on TOTL headphones and the requisite source gear.

 

[clerkpalmer]

Could someone post a short explanation of using a parametric EQ for dummies? I am using USB Audio over android which has a paremetric eq but I don't underrstand any of it. How exactly do I punch in the settings to get the cipher-like sound profile? Much appreciated and apologies for being a noob. I sold my 10s a while back for some El-8s which were great but now I'm going with the 20s.

 

[Audiophileaddict]

Agree with you the O2 pair so well with my iSine20

Finally found the match for isign 20!!
I have the isign 20 with cipher cable and had it for about 6 months . Also had the isign 10 but returned them because the 20 sounded better to me ! More weight in mids and better instrument separation and better bass but not by much. and I am In love with the sound from cipher cable . great soundstage weighty mids and dynamic sound . Haven’t been able to reproduce it but I have come really close and that’s with Mac computer with amarre desktop app. What’s so awesome about this app is it has eq for almost anything Netflix Spotify tidal Apple Music ! And it’s built into their interface . What’s more powerful is they have tidal masters also ! On their precets for headphones they have popular headphones to choose from also have 18 band equalizers and advanced eq as well all within their app.. now back to this cipher cable sound that I love , I was able to reproduce that sound with some extra benefits which is amazing to me .
Benefits— better soundstage
Greater clearity
Amazing instrument separation
Even more dynamic sounding than cipher

Cons— mids tonality is 90 percent close to cipher and that’s good enough for me . Without the amarre app I hated the sound of my isign 20 with just the 3.5 jack plugged into my Mac.

ALL YOU TO DO IS PICK LCD 2 AS A EQ PRECEPT AND BOOM AWESOMENESS

 

[Audiophileaddict]

Well, I've been trying hard to get the iSine20 to sound good to me. Using iTunes might no give the granular control over eq, but I thought I would start there. I'm using a Bimby and a Taurus Mk2 amp to the iSine for this testing. I've tried to replicate some of the EQ settings here. Some are ridiculously dark/warm. The one that I'm currently on is this:

I'm not completely happy with it. The sound is still just not tonally right, but I cannot quite pinpoint the problem. Maybe I'm just too used my full size cans (Utopia) and I'll never get same signature with the iSine20 without the Cipher cable. Any thoughts?

If you are using iTunes or other simple EQ to EQ these, what are your settings?

Edit. This setting is sounding better to me:

Finally found the match for isign 20!!
I have the isign 20 with cipher cable and had it for about 6 months . Also had the isign 10 but returned them because the 20 sounded better to me ! More weight in mids and better instrument separation and better bass but not by much. and I am In love with the sound from cipher cable . great soundstage weighty mids and dynamic sound . Haven’t been able to reproduce it but I have come really close and that’s with Mac computer with amarre desktop app. What’s so awesome about this app is it has eq for almost anything Netflix Spotify tidal Apple Music ! And it’s built into their interface . What’s more powerful is they have tidal masters also ! On their precets for headphones they have popular headphones to choose from also have 18 band equalizers and advanced eq as well all within their app.. now back to this cipher cable sound that I love , I was able to reproduce that sound with some extra benefits which is amazing to me .
Benefits— better soundstage
Greater clearity
Amazing instrument separation
Even more dynamic sounding than cipher

Cons— mids tonality is 90 percent close to cipher and that’s good enough for me . Without the amarre app I hated the sound of my isign 20 with just the 3.5 jack plugged into my Mac.

ALL YOU TO DO IS PICK LCD 2 AS A EQ PRECEPT AND BOOM AWESOMENESS

 

[headwhacker]

Interesting. A lot of people say the i4 is leagues ahead of the iSines and I’ve been waiting for the shop to get a demo unit in so I can decide if it’s worthwhile an upgrade over my isine 20, which i use with the cipher. Your anecdote is a valuable counterpoint—if it’s only a marginal improvement then I’ll be contented enough with the 20 and won’t have to go around scrounging for funds for the i4!

I guess it's about perspective. LCDi4 maybe leagues ahead of a typical TOTL iem. But so are the iSines when you consider what it can offer where iems maybe would not be able to duplicate. But i4 compared to iSines, sure they are different and the i4 is better when you take things apart and compare each pieces. However, overall both are equally good at presenting music like never before in this form factor.

When the track/music I played sounds excellent in i4, it still sounds very good on iSine10. (with obvious difference favors i4) However, there are a few tracks which I find weird or sound bad on i4 but still good enough on iSine10 for me. I guess i4 is just too revealing which in this case working against it.

Also the i4 needing extra ordinary gear defeats it's main advantage of a portable open back headphone experience. On the other hand, the iSine together with a cipher cable and the iPhone turns into a very portable high quality audiophile rig. All of a sudden the argument of apple dropping the headphone jack, the built-in amp/dac is not high quality enough becomes moot. Oh, I tried the i4 with the cipher cable and just doesn't do it justice. It just can't deliver enough power to i4 to make it sound just as right as other powerful sources.

 

[KMann]

Could someone post a short explanation of using a parametric EQ for dummies? I am using USB Audio over android which has a paremetric eq but I don't underrstand any of it. How exactly do I punch in the settings to get the cipher-like sound profile? Much appreciated and apologies for being a noob. I sold my 10s a while back for some El-8s which were great but now I'm going with the 20s.

Could you tell me which Android app you are using, then I may be able to help. To remove any guess work, there are a few parametric EQ options I have posted here.

 

[clerkpalmer]

Could you tell me which Android app you are using, then I may be able to help. To remove any guess work, there are a few parametric EQ options I have posted here.

Thank you. USB Audio Pro

 

[natalieann]

I swear, I have never heard a better in ear headphone than the isine 10. It's amazing. Just perfect

 

[AlwaysForward]

+1 my iSine20 blows my mind on a daily basis

 

[KMann]

Thank you. USB Audio Pro

I assume you intend to use ToneBooster that offers 6 bands of parametric EQ.

1. Start with the EQ I posted here
2. Since you can only enter 6 bands, in the above EQ (EQ-V1) choose bands 1,2,4,8,9,10.
3. Enter the Gain, Frequency and Q values in Tone booster.
4. For filter type, choose 'High shelf' for bands 1 and 10 in EQ-V1 and choose 'Analog bell' for bands 2, 4,8 and 9

This should get you quite close to a neutral. You can then adjust bass using band 1.
Use bands 2 and 9 to increase or decrease energy in the upper-mids.

 

[Zarium]

I assume you intend to use ToneBooster that offers 6 bands of parametric EQ.

1. Start with the EQ I posted here
2. Since you can only enter 6 bands, in the above EQ (EQ-V1) choose bands 1,2,4,8,9,10.
3. Enter the Gain, Frequency and Q values in Tone booster.
4. For filter type, choose 'High shelf' for bands 1 and 10 in EQ-V1 and choose 'Analog bell' for bands 2, 4,8 and 9

This should get you quite close to a neutral. You can then adjust bass using band 1.
Use bands 2 and 9 to increase or decrease energy in the upper-mids.

KMann, does the tuning of the i4 mimic that of the iSine 20 (non-cipher)? I find the iSine 20 out of my iPhone 6S+ 3.5mm quite terrible (yes, terrible) and it's like a completely different headphone compared to when used with the Cipher cable. I currently own the iSine 20 with Cipher and it's nothing short of amazing (still experimenting with using earlocks/earhooks and the different sized tips), but with all these people saying the i4 is simply leagues ahead and superlative compared to the iSine 20 I can't help but be curious as to just how much better it is. I know all about how it's all diminishing returns etc., so I'll definitely temper my expectations when I audition it this weekend, but perhaps you can offer your honest opinion?

My set up is quite pathetic (space constraints). I have an iPhone, a computer and a Chord Mojo. If I were to buy the i4, it would have to be better driven just straight out of the iPhone than the iSine 20 (maybe not Cipher-level good, but just impressive enough to justify its price tag) for portable situations (which I admit aren't that frequent) and very, very much more amazing when driven out of the Chord Mojo without having to fiddle with EQ. I don't mind EQing -- but I just prefer not to, since there doesn't seem to be an easy way to do it with the i4 (as compared to the iSine).

I know that the i4 has an incredibly high ceiling where you keep upgrading the source/amp and it gives more and more, but I'm not quite in a position for that just yet. As long as it's way better out of the Mojo vs iSine 20 Cipher, I think I'll be placing an order. Then eventually I'll get a Hugo 2, etc. to really make it shine.

 

[Textfeud]

Is EQ valuable with the Cipher cable? I installed the app but I believe the cable already does some EQ magic?

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

I just made a new YouTube video talking about some different iems including the iSine20. I give my general opinion of it and also show what it comes with.

ISine20 YouTube Video!

 

[AlwaysForward]

Is EQ valuable with the Cipher cable? I installed the app but I believe the cable already does some EQ magic?

Yes, flat is a great tuning. You can sculpt these like putty for your preferred tuning and they won't distort. They're like EQ putty.