[bflat]

  so guys lets have some fun, how much do u think that ak should price the ak380 instead of the high rocket price they plan to?

Well, not considering the one time investments of R&D and case tooling, I can't imagine this thing costs much more than say an iPhone 6 Plus which has been estimated to about $250USD component cost. Now Apple buys in massive quantities so let's be generous and say the AK380 costs $500 in components. Using the same margins as Apple, the AK380 should sell for no more that $1999 USD.
 
BTW that was the math I used when I decided to buy my AK240 which I think costs about the same to make. I almost went with a Hugo because I don't think Chord is making that high of margin on their products so I am convinced the Hugo is worth much more from a component perspective. But alas, I needed a high capacity DAP so AK240 it was.
 
So now that I know what the AK380 is, my AK240 is getting shipped out........to RWA for the mod that I've been waiting to do. No AK380 for me.

 

[Mython]

AK380 looks like more of a side-grade, for AK240 owners, + a few connectivity improvements, rather than an outright upgrade.
 
I don't anticipate the change of DAC chips bringing an earth-shattering level of difference, vs the Cirrus chips in the 240. Much of the performance bottle-neck in the AK240 may well lie in the amplification stage, and Vinnie seems, at least partially, to concur, if one looks at his RWA mods for the AK240.

 

[axax]

Normally new product decreases the price of old ones but ak does'nt this.This isn't sustainable...

 

[Zaroff]

  Normally new product decreases the price of old ones but ak does'nt this.This isn't sustainable...

 
Indeed. What's the next step? $5500? This is getting silly.

 

[high-fidelity]

   
Indeed. What's the next step? $5500? This is getting silly.

 
I think next one will be 5000,next 6500-7000 and will continue like this.

 

[kawaivpc1]

AK380 looks like more of a side-grade, for AK240 owners, + a few connectivity improvements, rather than an outright upgrade.

I don't anticipate the change of DAC chips bringing an earth-shattering level of difference, vs the Cirrus chips in the 240. Much of the performance bottle-neck in the AK240 may well lie in the amplification stage, and Vinnie seems, at least partially, to concur, if one looks at his RWA mods for the AK240.

Reviewers have mentioned that AK380 sounds like AK240+Layala. It has much more depth and likely made for pros.

 

[Zaroff]

 likely made for pros.

 
? you have to be a "pro" to listen to stellar-quality audio?...

 

[kawaivpc1]

I appreciate that it might be an uncomfortable question for them to answer, but it's a totally legitimate question that they should answer, if they're profiting from it as an expensive optional addition to an already insanely-overpriced DAP.

? you have to be a "pro" to listen to stellar-quality audio?...

Meaning it sounds authentic and can serve audio engineers who need the most authentic reproduction of sound.

Some DAPs and headphones still make colored sound.

 

[Mython]

Reviewers have mentioned that AK380 sounds like AK240+Layala. It has much more depth and likely made for pros.

 
 
Yeah, well, I'll believe that koolaid when I see real owners say it, after a few months of ownership.
 
AK240 was supposed to be the best DAP on the market but plenty of dissatisfied customers gradually crawling out of the woodwork, as time goes by.
 
There are far too many people giving A&K free passes for numerous shortcomings and hyper-high pricing.
 
For an example of this, take a look at the AK240SS thread.
 
Look how it started out and look what it has evolved into, lately.
 
And still people are hurling themselves onto each successive AK bandwagon, ignoring the carnage from each previous bandwagon.
 
It saddens me to see this kind of manufacturer and customer behaviour, in the DAP industry, being gushingly supported.
 
Same goes for JHA, frankly, and I consider it rather ironic that they have gone into partnership (look at the utter carnage that is the Roxanne thread, and as soon as the Layla appeared, be it universal or CIEM is largely irrelevant, all of a sudden, the JH fanboys instantly swept the Roxanne carnage under the carpet and acted as though it never happened).

 

[Sound Eq]

   
 
Yeah, well, I'll believe that koolaid when I see real owners say it, after a few months of ownership.
 
AK240 was supposed to be the best DAP on the market but plenty of dissatisfied customers gradually crawling out of the woodwork, as time goes by.
 
There are far too many people giving A&K free passes for numerous shortcomings and hyper-high pricing.
 
For an example of this, take a look at the AK240SS thread.
 
Look how it started out and look what it has evolved into, lately.
 
And still people are hurling themselves onto each successive AK bandwagon, ignoring the carnage from each previous bandwagon.
 
It saddens me to see this kind of manufacturer and customer behaviour, in the DAP industry, being gushingly supported.
 
Same goes for JHA, frankly, and I consider it rather ironic that they have gone into partnership.

thats why we have our nice people at fiio, ibasso, i am not ever gonna pay so much for dap, where the real difference in sq is not even noticeable to an average consumer, well i am waiting for fiio god bless them 
 
also i think we here are to be blamed also to support such companies that over price their products in such way, again god bless fiio

 

[Zaroff]

   
 
Yeah, well, I'll believe that koolaid when I see real owners say it, after a few months of ownership.
 
AK240 was supposed to be the best DAP on the market but plenty of dissatisfied customers gradually crawling out of the woodwork, as time goes by.
 
There are far too many people giving A&K free passes for numerous shortcomings and hyper-high pricing.
 
For an example of this, take a look at the AK240SS thread.
 
Look how it started out and look what it has evolved into, lately.
 
And still people are hurling themselves onto each successive AK bandwagon, ignoring the carnage from each previous bandwagon.
 
It saddens me to see this kind of manufacturer and customer behaviour, in the DAP industry, being gushingly supported.
 
Same goes for JHA, frankly, and I consider it rather ironic that they have gone into partnership (look at the utter carnage that is the Roxanne thread, and as soon as the Layla appeared, be it universal or CIEM is largely irrelevant, all of a sudden, the JH fanboys instantly swept the Roxanne carnage under the carpet and acted as though it never happened).

 
Fully agreed. Even if the machine sounds incredible, AK's overall attitude and brash contempt for the marketplace in general is so off-putting that I'd pass -that's on top of not believing it sounds so good that either the price is justified (which we all know it isn't), or the quality is such that the competition has nothing to offer of substantial value for much less. It has.

 

[kawaivpc1]

There is nothing uncomfortable for them to answer. It's obvious what their answer will be :-


Any answer other than "yes" would be economic suicide. Would you seriously expect them to say "No it won't improve sound quality but we'll still charge you $$$ for it" in front of the press!? Then I question the motive of this audience pressing AK to answer that question.

So, how much will it improve if I'm using HD800?
Is it an essential part of AK380 for better sound quality?

 

[sonickarma]

Has anyone listened to it yet at the shows ? - Basic Impressions?
 
Also are any other DAPs using the dual AKM AK4490 ?

 

[spook76]

Gentlemen,

The cost of iRiver products is driven by two factors.

One, the market for high end portable audio is very very small so a manufacturer is forced to pass along the overhead costs to far fewer consumers. Ever wonder why the two big electronics giants (Apple and Samsung) have not entered this market it is simply the market is too small to bother. Either company could buy iRiver, iBasso and Fiio with pocket change.

The second is iRiver's decentralized marketing. iRiver sells to retail sellers (Moon Audio and Ted Allen etc.) who then sell to consumers. The added level of sales requires a higher cost not for iRiver but the retail seller's margin. A small company like iRiver chooses not to sell directly to consumers because they do not have the customer contact their retail seller have. I know the margin on the AK240ss is over $1,000 for the retailer alone so of the $3,000 MSRP of the AK240ss iRiver receives less than $2,000.

Edit: The decentralized marketing concept came out a discussion I had with MCoupe who is the head of marketing for a major U.S. pharmaceutical company.

 

[Zaroff]

Gentlemen,

The cost of iRiver products is driven by two factors.

One, the market for high end portable audio is very very small so a manufacturer is forced to pass along the overhead costs to far fewer consumers. Ever wonder why the two big electronics giants (Apple and Samsung) have not entered this market it is simply the market is too small to bother. Either company could buy iRiver, iBasso and Fiio with pocket change.

The second is iRiver's decentralized marketing. iRiver sells to retail sellers (Moon Audio and Ted Allen etc.) who then sell to consumers. The added level of sales requires a higher cost not for iRiver but the retail seller's margin. A small company like iRiver chooses not to sell directly to consumers because they do not have the customer contact their retail seller have. I know the margin on the AK240ss is over $1,000 for the retailer alone so of the $3,000 MSRP of the AK240ss iRiver receives less than $2,000.

Edit: The decentralized marketing concept came out a discussion I had with MCoupe who is the head of marketing for a major U.S. pharmaceutical company.

 
Hm.
 
So how do the others manage for 3 times less? You named them. None of those has a high end circa $2500, much less $1000 beyond that price. They're in the same micro niche market, IIRC.