Astell&Kern AK380
Aug 22, 2015 at 1:47 AM Post #1,711 of 9,041
I don't understand this firmware thing. It can only be a voluntary eq tweak from Iriver, it cannot just be an accident. So why would they want to change the sound?

 
Before this gets out of hand that this is iRiver specific - any maker can and have done their same for their respective DAPs. That's why I said rather generically of how the Calyx M firmware from mid 2014 to now 2015 have done made me change my opinion 180 of that device whilst the AK380 firmware upgrades have made my comparisons with the Calyx M v1.01 more difficult of which way I swing.
 
It may not be so much as EQ as it is about filters actually.
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 1:53 AM Post #1,712 of 9,041
Before this gets out of hand that this is iRiver specific - any maker can and have done their same for their respective DAPs. That's why I said rather generically of how the Calyx M firmware from mid 2014 to now 2015 have done made me change my opinion 180 of that device whilst the AK380 firmware upgrades have made my comparisons with the Calyx M v1.01 more difficult of which way I swing.

It may not be so much as EQ as it is about filters actually.

But do any of the firmware upgrades ever say they have changed the sound?
Don't they just tweak UI or enable new functions. Have they ever said we make the sound different.
So really is it just wishful thinking?
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 4:27 AM Post #1,713 of 9,041
OK,
 
I have had my AK380 for about a month now and its time to post some impressions.
 
Before I had the AK380 I had an NW-ZX2 for 6 months, an AK240 for nearly two years and the AK120 before that, so yes, I like the A&K players.  
 
I have been listening at least 4 hours a day at least 4 days a week since I got it, so we're talking about 50-60 hours.
 
I have paired it with Beyerdynamic T5p's single ended, Shure SE846's and JH Audio Angies balanced.
 
Here are my conclusions:
 
Sound
I find the sound of the AK380 to be absolutely amazing.
 
When people say something sounds neutral, that implies that they know what the recording should be like - I am not sure I do always know what was intended, but it seems very clear to my ears that the AK380 is trying as hard a possible to paint an accurate picture of a piece of music. In fact it is this 'rendering' analogy that I keep coming back to - its like upgrading a graphics card and the image you see in a game being that much clearer and refined. 
 
As I have said before, the bass coming out of the AK380 is the finest I have ever heard. When paired with the SE846's I get a sound like a massive Krell amp in my ears - astounding - a lot of fun. When paired with the T5p's or Angies the sound is more balanced, but the bass is still so incredibly detailed.
 
For me, the mids are just right. Neither too forward nor back for my tastes. Smooth and sweet. Again which earphones you use changes the experience, but for me it has never been bad. Probably the Angies sounded best with the mids.
 
The highs go very high and this allows HD music to really sound startling. Cymbals and reverb and all the noises in the top register provide an amazing level of micro detail.
 
Micro-detail
I think that the AK380 renders everything that is stored in the file that you are playing and so all the detail in there is revealed. I have heard things I have not heard before in the music I have been listening to for years - yes, very surprising - the background sounds from the studio are discernable!
 
In between tracks the AK380 is as silent as I can imagine - even with the incredibly sensitive Angies there is no hiss.
 
Sound-stage
The sound-stage is as wide as you earphones will go.
 
UI
I personally believe that the A&K player UI is the best out there. The only one that came close for me was the NW-ZX2, but the full android experience on that meant way to much clutter and bloat for me. I think A&K have achieved just the right amount of functionality.
 
AK Connect
This has the potential to be huge - it can even be used to stream music from one A&K device to another (240<->380 is possible). I think this could be a game changer.
 
Build Quality
Faultless - nuff said. The device is beautiful.
 
 
The Magic Word: Synergy
This word has been used on this thread recently and I believe it is key when you talk about the AK380. I honestly believe that the AK380 can provide a balanced sound across the whole audio spectrum, and can provide an accurate musical representation to whatever earphones you use. It is not going to be the bottleneck in your system. Therefore it ends up being the job of the earphones to deliver that sound to your ears.
 
The earphones you choose dictates what you hear. The AK380 has always sounded good with my three earphones, but they are all expensive. There is no point in buying an AK380 if you are not going to spend some decent money on the earphones you connect it to.
 
This leads to the perhaps the only pseudo-issue with the AK380 - it does not artificially flatter sound at all (say, like the NW-ZX2). So, if you have a bad recording with hard treble, it will sound like a harsh recording with bad treble. If you ave crap earphones, then you will hear crap. It is not the AK380 sounding crap, it is the music and/or earphones sounding crap.
 
Conclusion
To my ears the Ak380 is a definite improvement over the AK240 - The AK240 also sounds amazing, but the AK380 sounds more mature and larger, and the bass - oh the bass!!! On a side note, It makes the NW-ZX2 sound like it renders music through mud.
 
The unit does get warm if you listen to it continuously, and once it is warmed up is sounds even better.
 
On top of that we have the amp coming out soon - What is that going to sound like.
 
 
 
My only problem now is that I now have to decide which earphones to keep. The JH Audio Angies sound beautiful when paired, with bass at about 3pm. The SE846's are like a party in the head - the subwoofer is really used by the AK380 as it outputs well rendered bass even down there (see my earlier comments about Yulunga by Dead can Dance). The T5p's are probably the most spacious sound, but they are not portable so I only listen to them in my office at home. Decisions, decisions, wish I could afford K10's and Layla's as well. The AK380 makes me want to go to the next level because I know thats where it belongs.
 
 
If you can afford it and understand the fact that it will lose value at some point (something that some people seem to not understand) then I highly recommend it. It is a solid foundation in your portable sound system. BTW it is still available in the UK Ebay store at a price that is lower than some shops are selling the AK240 for - look and confirm that there is no import duty before buying.
 
 
Happy listening, and hopefully see some of you in London next Sunday.
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 8:08 AM Post #1,714 of 9,041
where on earth does the AK380 cost 2800$?!

 
Well I ended up buying it. I was $100 off; it's actually the equivalent of $2897 (18,500 RMB), though that did include a 200 GB micro SD. I got this price since I'm a long time customer of the dealer I bought the AK380 from...I think the first headphone I bought from him was the Sennheiser CX300 many years ago!
 
To me, it feels like the AK380 is more musical than the stock AK240 I was using. Haven't listened to it much since it charges so sloooooowy.
 
I think the major relief to me is that while it is bigger than the AK240, the AK380 is still small enough to fit into my shirt pocket, albeit barely. The screen, however, is both good and bad compared to AK240. Yes, it's bigger and the colors seem to be better, but the viewing angles are pretty meh...I know that doesn't actually matter on a DAP, but it does bug me a little bit.
 
As for the price issue, for me, it really came down to the AK240SS and AK380, and quite frankly, the increase of 10% in price wasn't too big of a deal. If I already had my own AK240SS then I would have to think over it pretty carefully, but given my situation, the AK380 does a good job of fulfilling my needs of a walk-to-work DAP
smily_headphones1.gif
, and I can FINALLY return the AK240 I've been borrowing (after some EXTENSIVE comparisons between the two DAPs of course).
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 8:50 AM Post #1,715 of 9,041
   
Before this gets out of hand that this is iRiver specific - any maker can and have done their same for their respective DAPs. That's why I said rather generically of how the Calyx M firmware from mid 2014 to now 2015 have done made me change my opinion 180 of that device whilst the AK380 firmware upgrades have made my comparisons with the Calyx M v1.01 more difficult of which way I swing.
 
It may not be so much as EQ as it is about filters actually.

Agreed...
 
The AK 380 FW: upgrade to 1.11 was "HUGE"... To my ears a definite improvement in both sound and UI features/function. But I remember the FW upgrade on the AK 240 from 1.15 to 1.16.  I was an early adopter and regretted it from the moment I installed it.  Sound wise the AK 240 when "backwards".  Thank goodness I had the help of one person in particular who as able to help me step back to 1.15.  Since that point I have NOT DONE any FW upgrades to my AK240!  It's a trade off but to me the most important thing is once you arrive at the sound signature you like stay there.
 
-Speed 
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 8:52 AM Post #1,716 of 9,041
I've owned the 240 since January and use it with my K10's and 846's. When I use it as a Dac with my newest Macbook 12" (USB-C), and a 2013 Macbook Pro, I need to choose "DSD over PCM standard" in Audirvana to play Native DSD files through the dac function. Both laptops are updated to the newest Yosemite OS.
 
But…with my review sample of the 380, my Macbook USB C plays DSD and Hi-res with the same setting, but my Macbook Pro just plays hiss on DSD files. So yesterday I changed the setting to "Automatic Detection" on the Native DSD Detection in Audirvana on the Pro and voilà, it works. Like Bluetooth, as our technologies get more complicated, I find that certain features can still be hit or miss.
  1.  


 
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 8:56 AM Post #1,717 of 9,041
  Agreed...
 
The AK 380 FW: upgrade to 1.11 was "HUGE"... To my ears a definite improvement in both sound and UI features/function. But I remember the FW upgrade on the AK 240 from 1.15 to 1.16.  I was an early adopter and regretted it from the moment I installed it.  Sound wise the AK 240 when "backwards"...

 
So to try to understand, what can a Firmware upgrade do change the sound signature on a device? dB bumps in certain frequencies? Playing with equalizer settings on the Normal, unequalized output? 
confused.gif

 
Aug 22, 2015 at 9:38 AM Post #1,719 of 9,041
Not knowing exactly why something happens doesn't preclude it from doing so. Tree falling in the woods stuff. Changes are not EQ but generally background processes, buffers and resources changed or rearranged to function better. Sometimes the sonic changes are intentional but likely more often not as specs/EQ generally don't change. Some of these updates could be secondary corrections in sound by manipulating resources after a features update but not EQ based. For me, it's nothing new. I had a favorite sounding FW on my original Sansa View.
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 10:52 AM Post #1,720 of 9,041
  Mike is just teasing us. Really, taking those cans to an AK380 when he probably has a WA234 mono blocks is just plain silly. Made us forget about Hugo for a while tho.
 
Talk about going off the rails Mike, it's only been a month since I got the WA7 and I got more tubes than I know what to do with! You are killing me!

 
You should try AK380 to WA7 via RCA.  Wow!  What an amazing combo.
 

 
I wish I had the 234 MONO here.  Tyll has it.  
 

 
Aug 22, 2015 at 11:05 AM Post #1,721 of 9,041
Not knowing exactly why something happens doesn't preclude it from doing so. Tree falling in the woods stuff. Changes are not EQ but generally background processes, buffers and resources changed or rearranged to function better. Sometimes the sonic changes are intentional but likely more often not as specs/EQ generally don't change. Some of these updates could be secondary corrections in sound by manipulating resources after a features update but not EQ based. For me, it's nothing new. I had a favorite sounding FW on my original Sansa View.

Yet AK don't mention any updates change the sound. So perhaps it's all wishful thinking.
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 2:01 PM Post #1,722 of 9,041
If I had a dollar for each firmware/OS release by <insert technology company's name> that only gave vague details on what has changed, I would be able to buy AK380s for the entire HeadFi community.
 
Just to illustrate - the latest 10.5.5 Mac OSX update notes:
  1. Improves compatibility with certain email servers when using Mail
  2. Fixes an issue in Photos that prevented importing videos from GoPro cameras
  3. Fixes an issue in QuickTime Player that prevented playback of Windows Media files

2 pretty specific items but What is "certain email servers"? And really just these 3 things changed in a 2.2 GB download? If I didn't know better, I would swear my bootup time was trimmed by a few seconds after this update.
 
Back to AK firmware - as other have noted, there are a lot of configurable filter options in the DAC so I assume either AK makes changes or they have been waiting for Cirrus Logic to give them some different filters and roll this out in FW updates. So subtle SQ changes is completely plausible imho. For portable devices it's always tradeoffs. If the SQ has indeed improved, then we probably lost something in return like battery life. Good reason not to mention specifics in a FW release.
 
Aug 22, 2015 at 3:44 PM Post #1,725 of 9,041
Where can I read about the 'filters'? bflat mentions they are in the DAC portion.

http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4398_F2.pdf
 
I have no idea what any of that stuff means, but there appears to be many things that can be tweaked.
 

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