Any opinions / reviews on Gemtune APPJ PA1502A
Aug 3, 2019 at 4:05 PM Post #767 of 876
The PA1502A arrived. Nice packaging. Cute little amp. I gave it about an hour to cook and took a listen. The stock 12AX7 has so much gain and the typical grainy borderline shrill mids I remember from my tube diy days some years ago. I pulled it out and replaced with an EH 12AY7 I had laying around. MUCH better. Let it cook some more overnight and now the amp is showing some promise. More balanced, lots of power to drive an HD650/6XX. Noise floor could be lower and the separation/soundstage is lacking but for $200 and one tube swap it sounds great. Very engaging. I think I have to decide whether committing to all kinds of tube rolling and modding will be worth it vs. my current modded JLH-based amp which sounds excellent or the forthcoming Project Sunrise.
 
Aug 4, 2019 at 6:33 AM Post #768 of 876
The stock 12AX7 has so much gain and the typical grainy borderline shrill mids I remember from my tube diy days some years ago. I pulled it out and replaced with an EH 12AY7 I had laying around. MUCH better.

As you say, tube issue. The amp is refined sounding, not shrill, yet still with the detail and dynamics (modded). You could try TS5751's, very smooth, and lower gain. For other recommendations look back a few pages.

Noise floor could be lower and the separation/soundstage is lacking but for $200 and one tube swap it sounds great.

The amp should be totally silent, ask other members, probably tubes again. Separation and soundstage are vastly improved by cap and tube upgrades. Also let it cook for some more hours yet!

I think I have to decide whether committing to all kinds of tube rolling and modding will be worth it vs. my current modded JLH-based amp which sounds excellent or the forthcoming Project Sunrise.

As I said I have a pair of Kaisei 1000uF cathode caps, same as I used in mine. Then you would need something like Audyn True Copper 0.1uF's as bypasses. Also I have a pair of Russian Russia 6F6C Kobra power tubes recommended a while back for improved soundstage. Then you would need, say, a pair of the Miflexes coupling caps that you mentioned, say $100 the lot for the upgrades!

If anyone is interested in the parts that I have lying around for the cost of postage drop me a PM.
 
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Aug 6, 2019 at 2:02 PM Post #769 of 876
Got the Sunrise up and running and it's already impressive - and that's with the APPJ's 12AX7 as the test tube no less, which now sounds great in this application. The soundstage is more in line with my preferences. More importantly, I can bypass input caps altogether, change gain and impedance however I want, Use 6v AND 12v tubes and most crucially - improve the power supply. All without panicking about breaking leads and access to the internals.

I can only hold on to one of these and I think it's going to be the Sunrise.
 
Aug 7, 2019 at 11:14 AM Post #770 of 876
20190807_110315.jpg
I still using the Gold Lion KT66 on the output tubes,
even though it wasn't recommend because of heater amp draw is higher than the new production kt66, or other tubes recommended.

It combines the clarity of the Russian , with the soundstage of the duller large tubes I mentioned before.

It ran a bit hot in my warm room, but extended listening in my air condition room it is steady warm and tube still touchable, (quickly lol).
These are my fav tubes.
Very musical with clarity , if you don't mind taking the risk.
:)
 
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Aug 9, 2019 at 5:14 PM Post #771 of 876
Hi Maxx!

Looks like you're still using the 14F7. I'm settled on my final tube combo, I still use the Philips 12AX7, surprisingly good for that tube type. In my setup I find the 14F7 just a tad treble centric although resolution is fantastic. Also the Philips is beautifully rich sounding.

This amp really is something, when you have the textural detail and realism that this has now you know that it is pretty special.
:).

Edit: perhaps you could fry your breakfast egg on your amp with the Gold Lions in lol!
 
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Aug 9, 2019 at 5:18 PM Post #772 of 876
Got the Sunrise up and running and it's already impressive - and that's with the APPJ's 12AX7 as the test tube no less, which now sounds great in this application. The soundstage is more in line with my preferences. More importantly, I can bypass input caps altogether, change gain and impedance however I want, Use 6v AND 12v tubes and most crucially - improve the power supply. All without panicking about breaking leads and access to the internals.

I can only hold on to one of these and I think it's going to be the Sunrise.

Glad you've made your decision, having the amp in kit form looks like a good idea as you say, upgrading your power supply especially could be useful, also changing the other settings.
 
Aug 9, 2019 at 6:39 PM Post #773 of 876
Glad you've made your decision, having the amp in kit form looks like a good idea as you say, upgrading your power supply especially could be useful, also changing the other settings.

Yes, the APPJ has not been so accessible for me. I don't know if they changed enclosure parts recently but I couldn't even get inside the chassis because the heads of the cheap screws immediately started stripping (tried multiple screwdrivers and multiple head sizes) : (
 
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Aug 10, 2019 at 5:26 AM Post #774 of 876
Yes, the APPJ has not been so accessible for me. I don't know if they changed enclosure parts recently but I couldn't even get inside the chassis because the heads of the cheap screws immediately started stripping (tried multiple screwdrivers and multiple head sizes) : (

Right! Swopping out the caps was simple but it is made tricky because of the fragile nature of the PCB inside, also the other components are surface mount so would not be easy to change like in a kit such as the Project Sunrise. Several of us ran into problems over this further back in the thread, plus Maxx and myself had to rebuild the chassis to accommodate the upgrades.

Project Sunrise looks to be an interesting idea, not sure if I would be happy with an open chassis though! Let us know your impressions when you've had time to listen to it.

Edit: Is that you or Roger Waters in your profile pic? Just asked because I'm a big fan of Pink Floyd, I played my fav album "Pulse" a couple of days ago in fact, I love it!
 
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Aug 24, 2019 at 7:20 AM Post #775 of 876
Can't remember exactly how long I've had this speaker APPJ for, (PA0901A), but it must be not far short of 10 years, and the other amp I have, the Little Dot MKV+ for several years longer than that. Both are modded with the LD having a far greater number of upgrades than the APPJ which was relatively simple to do, it only requires upgraded coupling and cathode caps. The caps should be of best quality possible to affect sound beneficially, so the Miflex's that member Wushuliu mentioned could be a good bet for coupling, and the Kaisei's for cathodes are fairly cheap but good.

As I've had the amp for quite a while now I'm in a good position to to evaluate it properly, and I've got used to using different tubes from what I started out with so I thought it might be interesting to do a summary of my impressions of the amp now for anyone interested... if there's still anyone out there that is! I know there are a couple of members with that version APPJ.

Build: To answer a question from a member a while back I can say that the amp is reliable.... touch wood.... the upgrades have made no difference to this. This is good because the internals, being surface mount are not really made for modding but if they're left alone should last really well. But if the upgrades are done with care that shouldn't affect this, however I managed to mess it up, along with several other members! So build quality is not bad.

Pairing: It should pair well with anything from simple no crossover to multiple crossover amps, mine is single crossover, from sensitivities from about 85db upwards, mine is 87db and people have said it shouldn't work with such a low sensitivity, 90-95 would be much better. My answer to this is it works fantastically well, I use it in my average sized dining room, I like it quite loud and I never feel the need to go past 12 oclock so plenty in reserve. It doesn't clip or distort at all and is dead quiet. It would pair with warm or more neutral speakers, mine are fairly warm sounding.

Sound: The sound is beautifully balanced, liquid with good frequency response pre mods. Post mods it just pushes everything to the max, soundstage, resolve, textural detail, dynamics, frequency extension are all top level. The sound is transparent but with a nice touch of tubes, but it is not over warm or syrupy.

Comparisons: From reviews and my own experience I would put this at top level post mods. Other amps may be more neutral, or more tubey sounding according to taste. To see it compare favourably to the much more expensive and highly modded Little Dot is pretty impressive and difficult to believe.

Tubes: I think I'm in a good position to know what my preferences are now I've lived with them for several years. I won't go into past tubes, people can look back in the thread for that. So starting with my previous favourite the Tungsol 5751 has a glorious liquid, yet detailed sound. The TS14AF7 has great resolve, detail, treble, transparency, I thought it was slightly thin occasionally and one dimensional soundstage, but still excellent, Philips 12AX7 has great punch richness, resolve, textural detail, frequency extension, 3d soundstage. The Mazda 12AX7A silver anode is lighter and taughter sounding with light extended treble, great resolve, really open soundstage, there is a really exciting percussive edge to the upper register like when a real guitar is being played near by. Can be a tad thin on thin sounding music but on most music sounds quite brilliant IMO with great textural detail. That and the Philips are my fav tubes now... with the Philips in top position. This tube is the best I have heard, and it is unlikely to ever again come out of it's socket on the amp. It has texture in abundance, the frequency extension is impressive with powerful bass, mids and treble all in perfect balance. The tube has much of the percussive attack of the Mazda but is better for all types of music due to its richer tonality whereas the Mazda can be on the light side. The dynamic response of the tube and all that textural detail all go to making the soundstage impressive and many layered although it is not so open sounding as the Mazda. I think the Philips is perfect for this amp because the amp naturally has a tight attack and quickness of response, therefore the fuller sound of the tube makes for a better combination on the amp. This is the best ever sound I have heard coming out of this little amp. I think I have finally overcome my prejudice against the 12Ax7 tube which I now regard as a superb tube taking into account all the variants we have gone into here, and it is known to be a very linear tube.

I've gone into this at length because having lived with the amp and tubes for some time now I feel in a good position to comment finally on the setup we have here.

That's where I'm at atm and I doubt anything will change as I'm very happy with the amp. I would be interested to hear what others with the headphoe APPJ, the subject of this thread thought in comparison.

I believe this amp displays all the best qualities of SET tube amps: speed, openness, transparency, and the SQ indicates to me that the transformer is good quality too, which is fortunate on output.

Edit: I added a concluding section to the paragraph on tubes...
 
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Dec 29, 2019 at 6:55 AM Post #776 of 876
Dear Head-Fier,

This is my first post here.

I wanted to register in order to thanks everybody for giving me the idea to modify my venerable APPJ PA901A I own since several years. Currently my tube setup is Psvane 12AX7-T/2 + EL84M from TAD. Sounds very nice to me, although there might be better options.

I already played a lot with caps on my DAC I build on my own but never dared to touch this small tube amp. The posts I read here gave me some encouragements and I took the opportunity of day-off around Christmas to do it. The components I choose are on a rather cheap side. Fitting inside was also a consideration :

- Jantzen Superior Z-cap 0.47µF for decoupling
- Jantzen Superior Z-cap 0.1µF + Panasonic FM 1000µF 50V for the cathode bypasses

The result is is already amazing, although not burned-in. After several years using this toy I'm really impressed with the musicality.

Before :
Appj1a.png



After :
APPJ2a.png
 
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Jan 10, 2020 at 4:40 PM Post #777 of 876
Small update :

After 50+ hours of listening, the musicality has really improved. Seems Jantzen or Panasonic caps or both need burn-in time.

I was still a little bit disturbed by a not even left-right music thing, something in the stereo image. Therefore, I decided to bypass the onboard pot by cutting some traces in order to isolate the pot and wiring direct to 12AX7 pins.

That was again a very good modification. Because stereo image improved nicely. Seems my pot was a bit defective or bad quality.

I purchased an ALPS potentiometer in order to build an external volume device. But I wonder if I ever will use it. The digital volume of my setup (LMS with PicorePlayer) is already sounding very good, I'm not sure inserting an analog device will improve. But now, I'm worrying about the 2 cheap RCAs. May be for next time.

I'm currently feeding the APPJ PA901A with my dac prototype based on a raspberry, an allo kali, an I2S home made AK4497 dac and output stage with bursons v6 and other things I tuned a lot. And connected to 94dB hand made speakers.

Since I have finally found how to insert images directly, here the last modification and my playground.

pot-bypass.png pa901a.png
 

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Jan 11, 2020 at 8:44 AM Post #778 of 876
Small update :

After 50+ hours of listening, the musicality has really improved. Seems Jantzen or Panasonic caps or both need burn-in time.

Hi greinedo, nice work!

I will reply to you as I have that APPJ, and there are only one or two people left on this thread now, partly because of the age of the amp and it has had several new versions since then, (which I'm rather sorry about)!

Glad you like the amp, it is pretty amazing! I am continually being shocked by it, even now after about 10 years of ownership!

The Jantzen caps you used look to be fine, the right values to boost bass performance and the cathode caps at 1000uF will give power a boost to avoid clipping and improve transient response, given that this is a relatively low power amp, (which is not a problem because low power often means clean power). Together with the bypasses to boost the faster treble frequencies is what is needed here.

I found burn in time improved the soundstage airiness and clarity especially, but for the Jupiter and Kaisei caps I have put in they need into the hundreds of hours before I really started to notice it big time.

The upgrades are really worth it for this little baby amp.

I was still a little bit disturbed by a not even left-right music thing, something in the stereo image. Therefore, I decided to bypass the onboard pot by cutting some traces in order to isolate the pot and wiring direct to 12AX7 pins.

That was again a very good modification. Because stereo image improved nicely. Seems my pot was a bit defective or bad quality.

I purchased an ALPS potentiometer in order to build an external volume device. But I wonder if I ever will use it. The digital volume of my setup (LMS with PicorePlayer) is already sounding very good, I'm not sure inserting an analog device will improve. But now, I'm worrying about the 2 cheap RCAs. May be for next time.

Changing the pot has been mentioned but as far as I know nobody has actually done it due to the lack of space, and if you're not getting any problems it's best left. As the amp is autobiasing you can't adjust it by any other means. Digital volume seems a fine compromise.

I'm currently feeding the APPJ PA901A with my dac prototype based on a raspberry, an allo kali, an I2S home made AK4497 dac and output stage with bursons v6 and other things I tuned a lot. And connected to 94dB hand made speakers.

Good work on the DAC, did you make the speakers too?

Let us know your impressions through your speakers after more burn in time, I am interested to know as mine are only 87db but are absolutely stunning quite frankly!

Also any questions about tubes etc., but there is a lot about that back in the thread.
 
Jan 11, 2020 at 2:49 PM Post #779 of 876
Hi baronbeehive, Thank you very much for the reply !

Glad you like the amp, it is pretty amazing! I am continually being shocked by it, even now after about 10 years of ownership!

Yes, I'm addicted to this sound. Not sur it's triode wired or penthode but I like it so much. Unfortunately, the fragile and compact build doe not allow a lot of tweaks. I'm tempted rebuilding something from scratch similar by starting building a kit, then modifying it, like this one : https://www.loetstelle.net/projekte/el84compact/el84compact.html (sorry in German) and pcb, high quality transformer etc here in section tube accessories : https://www.die-wuestens.de/eindex.htm.

I already assembled 3 solid state amplifier since I own this little tube amp but they never came close to the appj. 2 TA2020 amplifiers and one based on TI chip TPA3251. All 3 landed in the basement where I already stored my Onkyo AV receiver when Appj came.

As the amp is autobiasing you can't adjust it by any other means. Digital volume seems a fine compromise.
Indeed. I realized only after modification that there is now direct connection from dac output stage (burson op amp) without any resistor or coupling cap until 12ax7 pin and bias resistor (240kOhms). Before, the pot was 10kOhms. So there is a change in layout but sound is just better, and I will stay like this.

Good work on the DAC, did you make the speakers too?
No, thats certainly a long work. They have been made in the 90's by a passionate guy who even invented a patented wave guide inside the speaker. This sounds soo good. A bit off topic here but fyi a english guy reviewed a newer model (only 92db) and thinks the same. https://vintagehifiproducts.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/mulidine-cadence/ For me they are ideal speakers for small tube amps. And fyi my extravgant dac with 7 linear power supplies in flea market case :) : https://drive.google.com/open?id=14bFmckb2tfy8VZbMCKlKslzDEZmzgHno and not very transportable !

I will give feedback when things are stable I'm really interested in advise concerning good sounding EL84 and 12ax7 tubes. I'm already very convinced with s EL84M/6П14П and I'm lurking on a 12ax7 Full Music tube : https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/tj-full-music-12ax7 May be someone has an opinion.

Thank you again very much for this thread. There is a lot inside very interesting and a lot I still must read.
 
Jan 11, 2020 at 4:51 PM Post #780 of 876
Yes, I'm addicted to this sound. Not sur it's triode wired or penthode but I like it so much. Unfortunately, the fragile and compact build doe not allow a lot of tweaks. I'm tempted rebuilding something from scratch similar by starting building a kit, then modifying it, like this one : https://www.loetstelle.net/projekte/el84compact/el84compact.html (sorry in German) and pcb, high quality transformer etc here in section tube accessories : https://www.die-wuestens.de/eindex.htm.

Pretty sure its triode. I was impressed that you had no problems with your upgrade!

Most of us here ran into problems due to the flimsy PC. Not sure you need a lot of tweaks anyway, the sound of this amp compares favourably to my much more heavily modded Little Dot MKVI+. The only other mod I've heard of is a diode mod which I gather involves a faster acting diode, but as the amp itself is very fast and open sounding as a typical SET amp, so it probably doesn't need it.

If you're interested in an amp build check out this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/modern-balanced-tube-amp-build.852879/
It is a modern hybrid tube amp designed by someone who I heard of through the Little Dot Supermod thread. He had some interesting ideas which another member of the thread has put into practice. I have no relationship to this person who does the amp build, but am very interested in trying it myself. This is a review thread of theamp: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/

I will give feedback when things are stable I'm really interested in advise concerning good sounding EL84 and 12ax7 tubes. I'm already very convinced with s EL84M/6П14П and I'm lurking on a 12ax7 Full Music tube : https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/tj-full-music-12ax7 May be someone has an opinion.

Look forward to hearing your impressions!

Re: tubes I swear by Amperex EL84, they're the best I have heard, clear and warm sounding. The only ones I haven't heard and was interested in were the Mullards but as I already have Mullard sounding 12AX7's I haven't bothered.

What type of sound do you like? I refer you back to my long review post on this page for the conscensus here, and also my preferences. If you do like the sound of the Philips make sure you get the right one, see back in the thread for the info. The Full Music 12AX7's are quite good reissue tubes but nowhere near as good as NOS.

With the upgrades and better tubes, I'm certain that this little gem, no pun intended, will hold up to the very best, and it has a sound signature that I love!

I'm interested that you have the speaker version as well, as most members here have the headphone version.
 
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