[BadReligionPunk]

My only beef with Neutron is the delay between button press on the DAP(Fiio M11) or the mic control on my earphones. It is sometimes a few seconds. Also if I pause via player or mic control and I don't press again within say 20 seconds or so it will never unpause unless I wake the player and use the touchscreen to unpause.

BTW my phone acts the same way. Is there some sort of option I have overlooked?

 

[dmitrykos]

if I pause via player or mic control and I don't press again within say 20 seconds or so it will never unpause unless I wake the player and use the touchscreen to unpause.

May be Fiio's firmware somehow freezes Neutron and does not deliver media button events to it. Normally Neutron's process is always working (in a relaxed, CPU friendly manner) and if any event comes in it will be processed asap.

 

[mxroadie]

Hi @dmitrykos I'm using Neutron on the Hiby R5 and I think the CPU is not able to handle Neutron with both "64 bits processing" and "all to DSD128" turned on. The music will start stuttering. So it would appear I have to choose between DSD128 and 64 bits. Which would bring more benefits, sonically? Just want to say I'm really enjoy Neutron, it transformed the R5 from good to phenomenal.

 

[Seazer]

Hi @dmitrykos I'm using Neutron on the Hiby R5 and I think the CPU is not able to handle Neutron with both "64 bits processing" and "all to DSD128" turned on. The music will start stuttering. So it would appear I have to choose between DSD128 and 64 bits. Which would bring more benefits, sonically? Just want to say I'm really enjoy Neutron, it transformed the R5 from good to phenomenal.

When using DSP of any kind like EQ or filters etc, 64 bit helps keep round off errors lower so it's inaudible. If you have no DSP on you can keep it off. My guess is that all to DSD isn't bit perfect anymore because of the conversion, but you may prefer the sound. Not sure about that though, dmitrykos would have to correct me there

 

[superuser1]

Hi @dmitrykos I'm using Neutron on the Hiby R5 and I think the CPU is not able to handle Neutron with both "64 bits processing" and "all to DSD128" turned on. The music will start stuttering. So it would appear I have to choose between DSD128 and 64 bits. Which would bring more benefits, sonically? Just want to say I'm really enjoy Neutron, it transformed the R5 from good to phenomenal.

I would say ... trust your ears!!

 

[mxroadie]

When using DSP of any kind like EQ or filters etc, 64 bit helps keep round off errors lower so it's inaudible. If you have no DSP on you can keep it off. My guess is that all to DSD isn't bit perfect anymore because of the conversion, but you may prefer the sound. Not sure about that though, dmitrykos would have to correct me there

Ah, that's new to me. Good to know. I don't use DSP, unless you count dithering? So I guess 32 bits is good enough, which will also allow me to use all to dsd128, which honestly sounds damn good to me. I used to be a bit perfect guy but man, Neutron is doing upsampling right.

I would say ... trust your ears!!

I agree and I would very much like to! I guess it's just that scientific side of me that would like to know what would theoretically sound the best

 

[dmitrykos]

Hi @dmitrykos I'm using Neutron on the Hiby R5 and I think the CPU is not able to handle Neutron with both "64 bits processing" and "all to DSD128" turned on. The music will start stuttering. So it would appear I have to choose between DSD128 and 64 bits.

If 32-bit mode allows to use DSD128 then you need to compare what you like more and whether benefits of DSD128 outperform benefits of 64-bit processing. DSD128 improves precision of the final result, similar to 64-bit processing but its effect will be more noticeable. If you are using EQ or some other DSP then may be doing 64-bit processing and DSD64 output would be ok. You just need to try and compare, if you do not hear any difference then select mode which consumes less CPU and battery, the easiest for CPU is: 32-bit processing + DSD64.

If you switch on Multithreaded Processing then may be CPU will handle 64-bit processing and DSD128 but at expense of higher CPU usage due to absence of SIMD optimization in this case.

When using DSP of any kind like EQ or filters etc, 64 bit helps keep round off errors lower so it's inaudible. If you have no DSP on you can keep it off. My guess is that all to DSD isn't bit perfect anymore because of the conversion, but you may prefer the sound.

PCM to DSD conversion requires upsampling, so 64-bit processing will definitely improve the precision of this operation. The problem though is that mobile CPUs may not be able to handle 64-bit processing + DSD128, especially DAPs which do not use fast CPUs but with time it will change due to natural progress of CPU development.

Technically 64-bit processing + DSD128 will give the best result in terms of precision, lower SNR and wider band without SDM-specific noise which is usually outside the heard range of frequencies.

 

[bobbooo]

@bobbooo, even though hardware may be capable the access to DSD functionality must be provided by firmware too! Samsung does not expose anything related to DSD. On contrary LG exposes possibility to open DSD stream in V series of their devices, so Samsung has to do the same, otherwise - no chance. Neutron managed to obtain hi-res PCM on Galaxy S5+ series after a number of tests and failures but it is so far maximum what can be done.

Hi, I'm having another issue with Neutron and my Snapdragon Samsung Galaxy S10e (G9700), running Android 9. I've tried both Apple's excellent USB-C to 3.5mm dongle and the XtremPro X1 aka Speaka USB DACs, and it seems like Neutron's hardware volume control is not working properly, as the max volume is low, just as quiet as with any other basic player using software volume. UAPP (Universal Audio Player Pro) however reaches much louder volumes with these devices, so does seem to be taking full advantage of hardware volume. Is there a solution to this? Could you get the Apple dongle (only $9) and test this to try to implement a fix?

Edit: Also, if the XtremPro X1 is plugged in before opening Neutron, its volume is unable to be changed at all, stuck at a very low level (Audio Hardware says output is 'XtremPro X1 USB DAC'). The volume control only works if I plug it in while Neutron is already open. In this case, and for the Apple dongle no matter when I plug it in, Audio Hardware reports the output as 'AudioTrack (SYS) [USB]', suggesting Neutron is incorrectly using the Android driver with these devices, even though I have 'Hardware Gain', 'Direct USB Access' and 'Volume Control' turned on in the options.

Edit 2: I've just tried the XtremPro X1 on my Samsung Galaxy S7 (Exynos) running Android 8 and it's still only using the Android driver properly (sometimes it doesn't even work at all). Again, it works fine on UAPP, with full hardware volume control. So this is obviously a bug in Neutron that needs fixing.

Edit 3: Activating 'Linear Scale' in Neutron under Direct USB Access > Volume Control seems to give full hardware volume control to the XtremPro X1 on my S10. Neutron still only ever uses the Android driver with the Apple dongle however, regardless of this setting.

 

[dmitrykos]

Hi, I'm having another issue with Neutron and my Snapdragon Samsung Galaxy S10e (G9700), running Android 9. I've tried both Apple's excellent USB-C to 3.5mm dongle and the XtremPro X1 aka Speaka USB DACs

Would you please send e-mail to neutronmp@gmail.com, so that it would be possible to provide dev version with active logging. Logs will show the reason of this misbehavior. So far all test devices and DACs behave ok, no issues with playback and volume adjustment if Direct USB Access is active.

 

[mxroadie]

If 32-bit mode allows to use DSD128 then you need to compare what you like more and whether benefits of DSD128 outperform benefits of 64-bit processing. DSD128 improves precision of the final result, similar to 64-bit processing but its effect will be more noticeable. If you are using EQ or some other DSP then may be doing 64-bit processing and DSD64 output would be ok. You just need to try and compare, if you do not hear any difference then select mode which consumes less CPU and battery, the easiest for CPU is: 32-bit processing + DSD64.

If you switch on Multithreaded Processing then may be CPU will handle 64-bit processing and DSD128 but at expense of higher CPU usage due to absence of SIMD optimization in this case.



PCM to DSD conversion requires upsampling, so 64-bit processing will definitely improve the precision of this operation. The problem though is that mobile CPUs may not be able to handle 64-bit processing + DSD128, especially DAPs which do not use fast CPUs but with time it will change due to natural progress of CPU development.

Technically 64-bit processing + DSD128 will give the best result in terms of precision, lower SNR and wider band without SDM-specific noise which is usually outside the heard range of frequencies.

Thanks for getting back, @dmitrykos

For me, the most noticeable difference comes from turning on the all to dsd (dsd64) function, more so than turning on 64-bit processing. That said, I managed to run Neutron on my Pixel 2 with the Hiby R5 as a USB DAC. With the much more powerful CPU on the Pixel, I was able to try out 64-bit processing + DSD128 and to be honest, couldn’t tell much of a difference between DSD64 and DSD128. It was perhaps slightly smoother and more analogue sounding with a very slight increase in stage depth. So in conclusion, think I will stick with 64-bit processing + DSD64. Would a all to DSD256 function ever be available. I was reading up on the DSD file format and many seem to suggest that the greatest difference comes from DSD256 onwards. Anyway, back to enjoying music! Thanks again for your help.

 

[Steve Guppy]

Right, i have a couple of questions anyone can feel free to give their opinions on. I keep seeing all these posts on using the oversampling feature set (8 seems to be the most popular setting). But ive recently realised that with it set to this,

along with the generic driver setting on, Neutron no longer recognises my Q5 driver, as in Picture (1)
Turn off generic driver and oversampling and Neutron recognises the Q5 proper, as in Picture (2)

But stranger still, if the volume is set any where lower than 93 on the device, in generic driver mode, then the sound is all scrambled and distorted, as in Picture (3)

Am i right in saying that if i want the best audio across the spectrum, including an Ldac capable Sony BT speaker, then i need generic driver on to provide Hi-Res music? But if this is the case, then how do i work around using my Q5 as well? I'm sure i didn't have this problem before a recent OS update on my Note 9, and the 3rd Oct Neutron one.
I listen almost exclusively to 16-bit and 24-bit hi-res flac downloaded music.

 

[dmitrykos]

@Steve Guppy,

> Am i right in saying that if i want the best audio across the spectrum, including an Ldac capable Sony BT speaker, then i need generic driver on to provide Hi-Res music?

If AudioTrack serves the audio device then it will also (depends on firmware) output possibly hi-res to BT endpoint but for the USB DAC (USB OTG) it is better to use Neutron's USB driver (Direct USB Access option) because Android OS has sub-optimal and limited implementation of usbaudio driver. But, if Direct USB Access is On then it will not affect Generic Driver -> Hi-Res Codec behavior because Direct USB Access has higher priority in case of USB DAC access and will try to use DAC first.

> I'm sure i didn't have this problem before a recent OS update on my Note 9, and the 3rd Oct Neutron one.

There is correction in USB driver which will be released in the next update, hopefully it will fix the problem. Try not using 32-bit Output option and rely on what Neutron detected with Generic Driver - Hi-Res Codec. Would you please send message to neutronmp@gmail.com to get dev apk for a test.

 

[XP_98]

I can't find the "All to DSD" settings on my Dx220. Could someone recall where it is, indicating menu / sub menu ?
Thanks in advance

 

[WitzyZed]

I can't find the "All to DSD" settings on my Dx220. Could someone recall where it is, indicating menu / sub menu ?
Thanks in advance

See within ‘Audio Hardware’, then the ‘DSD, DSD over PCM (DoP)’ sub menu. It’s the first option in that sub-menu. Long click it for more options (DSD128 option & Multithreaded Processing).

 

[XP_98]

Ok thank you, I'll try these options