Android: Neutron Music Player

[Lillie]

I am happy that it works then.

I don't have that enabled, but it needs it when playing through a dap and not just external dac i guess. Thanks for the information, it might be helpful for me in future and if someone reads and want try this.

The one in the Fiio is something like 32bit+DSD64 in Neutron. One side to make sure you do not get distortion in sound and another to save battery i think. And....this is the reason why people often do not hear difference with all to dsd option On in their daps.

Ahm....how is the battery consumption ? Is it OK ? I have phone that i use as music player and i have 7-8% per hour 32bit+DSD64. 10% with 64bit+DSD64. Around 11% with 32bit+DSD128. And 15% with 64bit+DSD128. Multithreaded processing will add 1 or 2% + to all these. So...if it can without it, its better to turn it off. Also for comparison with 'follow source frequency' i get 3-4% drain per hour. Not that for your dap will be the same numbers, but just to give idea. 64bit+DSD64 is best balance, quality and performance i feel.

Something else that may help as information to someone that reads. When you go to settings audio, at the top is written what type CPU a device have. And in brackets is written 32 or 64 bit + Neon for example. Then under it in VEC you might have 'Neon' or '-' nothing written. If it's nothing written then probably the google play store have not installed the best possible version of Neutron so one might want to check Neutron website for manual downloads and installation. That counts only for 32bit CPUs however as i understand. If the device have 64bit CPU and Neutron works, then this is the optimal one as 64bit version does not have versions with or without Neon. What this does is you get 20% or something around those lines more performance with VEC 'Neon' vs '-'. So...if for example you get distortion and your device can't do upsampling to DSD well, installing the correct version might help a lot. Will not do miracles but can help.

Happy listening .


PS: and something else, whoever reads. It also depends on what sample rate the input file has. So...Flac 16bit 44 100hz will be easier to upsample to DSD than Flac 24bit 96 000hz and so on. This is another reason why one may get distortion with hi-res files vs standart 16/44. Keep this in mind also. Its not huge difference, but there is.

Under audio settings I have ....CPU ARMv8+ NEON64 64bit underneath VEC...NEON64 so looks like the correct download for device.
With regards to battery life it looks similar to yours around 10% with audiophile on , 64bit + DSD 64. Not a problem for me I’m mostly listening at home and usually only a couple of hours at a time .

 

[szore]

Hi.
Have tried your recommendations... when I switch DSD, DSD over PCM (DOP) on and then PCM to DSD on I don’t get any sound, (is that because M11 can’t do this?) so I guess I’ll stick to follow source frequency.

Have changed the other settings and using audiophile and it’s sounding great.
Thanks for your time and input.

Same for me with the M8....

 

[szore]

Checked settings-> profile, it’s default so ok.
I have got it to work.... the setting beneath PCM to DSD which is Native DSD has to be on that’s the only way it works.
Have tried DSD128 with multithread processing on and off and stutters occasionally so running in DSD 64, 64 bit and audiophile ....what an amazing music player, head and shoulders above others once you learn to navigate the menus and start to have some understanding of their uses!

What do you mean "And Audiophile",,,, is that a setting somewhere? lol

 

[Lillie]

What do you mean "And Audiophile",,,, is that a setting somewhere? lol

Yes go to playback in settings, scroll down to resampling....there you have the choice of quality or audiophile.

 

[szore]

Yes go to playback in settings, scroll down to resampling....there you have the choice of quality or audiophile.

Nice! Thanks for that.

Can you tell me how to reset the EQ sliders to 0???

 

[Lillie]

Nice! Thanks for that.

Can you tell me how to reset the EQ sliders to 0???

No sorry .....I was also wondering how to do that....maybe someone else can enlighten us.

 

[Kentajalli]

Question
I am a long time Neutron user.
My setup is a Huawei Mate 20 pro, Chord Mojo external DAC.
I have been feeding the Mojo as close to bit-perfect a signal as I could, and been generally happy with it.
Recently on a whim , I decided to use the oversampling feature (settings>Audio Hardware >oversampling ).
This is CPU intensive, my Huawei can manage upto 384khz. anymore and it would become unstable.
Has anyone tried this?
what results did you experience ?
I mean in sound quality.
I am interested to know.

 

[Julius Decimus]

Question
I am a long time Neutron user.
My setup is a Huawei Mate 20 pro, Chord Mojo external DAC.
I have been feeding the Mojo as close to bit-perfect a signal as I could, and been generally happy with it.
Recently on a whim , I decided to use the oversampling feature (settings>Audio Hardware >oversampling ).
This is CPU intensive, my Huawei can manage upto 384khz. anymore and it would become unstable.
Has anyone tried this?
what results did you experience ?
I mean in sound quality.
I am interested to know.

Been a long time and nobody answers. Basically read the second part of the previous page if you interested in experimenting.

From this post on: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/android-neutron-music-player.566664/page-65#post-16305835

I have Usb player pro as well, tried upsampling there. It does not improve the sound like Neutron does. The bit-perfect option and the EQ's are OK however (there is the one Morphit that simulate different headphones's sound). I have old Sony phone that i use as music player and rooted with possibility to change the CPU frequency. And i see Usb Player Pro only use 1 core of the CPU. So...if it can't do the upsampling, then just can't (but then again, it does literally nothing to my ears, so it's just stress test for the CPU). In Neutron you have many options to try combine compared to that.

To your question, with Mojo and Neutron upsampling to 768khz gives best details and sound is more 'wide'. 64bit on + DSD128 does sound better to me as i listen with very high volume levels and removes the super details and harshness while still maintain the level of detail as if you upsample to 768khz. Just not so pronounced. As for the EQ, i don't use it with DSD upsampling, but with PCM need it. So...you could try that as well if interested. Stop the EQ and set 64bit+DSD128, see how it is.

Not sure what is the situation with players on PC and Windows. I do not use the Mojo with computers. The times i did just....have not done any upsampling and it is completely fine.

Onkyo HF player for Android also do upsampling, does not support WMA music files however, so i do not use it and can't comment how behaves with Mojo. Tried with FLAC files and AAC, it does bypass the Android resampler and plays bit-perfect type like USB player pro. So it is just OK. Not better than USB player pro or Neutron.

 

[Kentajalli]

thank you for your reply.
I am at a loss as to why it sounds better with oversampling .
Mind you, Resampling is different to oversampling in Neutron.
Resampling does nothing! sound quality wise.
I believe the oversampling is an interpolation process. what filters are used, I don't know.
I have posted a question on Neutron forums , hopefully somebody will have some useful info.
Rob Watts hammers down that his WTA filters and upsampling is best there is and all else are crap.
there is no denying he is a master engineer, but some of his replies are like informecials , half info half commercial , self praising his designs.
I just need info as to how Neutron oversamples , as it is puzzling for me.
I am convinced, Neutron oversampling improves the sound, how or why is a mystery, until I get some answers.
Settings I use on Neutron:
64 bit processing .
No dither.
Eq for my IEMs ( -9dB peak, 75Hz, Q 0.7)
follow source frequency
oversampling 8X or 16X
Hardware latency 20
Software Latency 5
No other DSP .
Stereo imaging gets larger with more depth. instruments get focused in a 3D space, clearer defined .
following lyrics gets easier.
high treble hardness if any is gone.
punch, timing or tone remain the same.

 

[szore]

thank you for your reply.
I am at a loss as to why it sounds better with oversampling .
Mind you, Resampling is different to oversampling in Neutron.
Resampling does nothing! sound quality wise.
I believe the oversampling is an interpolation process. what filters are used, I don't know.
I have posted a question on Neutron forums , hopefully somebody will have some useful info.
Rob Watts hammers down that his WTA filters and upsampling is best there is and all else are crap.
there is no denying he is a master engineer, but some of his replies are like informecials , half info half commercial , self praising his designs.
I just need info as to how Neutron oversamples , as it is puzzling for me.
I am convinced, Neutron oversampling improves the sound, how or why is a mystery, until I get some answers.

I talked with Mr. Watts at Canjam; super nice guy and a gentleman.

 

[Kentajalli]

I talked with Mr. Watts at Canjam; super nice guy and a gentleman.

I second that.
the fact that he actively engages us and replies to posts, is wonderful .

 

[Julius Decimus]

I am at a loss as to why it sounds better with oversampling .

Well, i kind of wrote that when was in the Mojo thread....3 months ago ? Something like that. You know how went. Although you noticed improvement not with the PCM to DSD option, so it's different. Common is, both ways are not bit-perfect. And i also believe what mister Watts says of course, just the PCM to DSD option in Neutron sound better to me with high volume levels.

I have posted a question on Neutron forums , hopefully somebody will have some useful info.

You need to ask the developers. Meybe they will give information. Meybe not since it's not problem with the program functionality actually. But worth a try i guess.

neutronmp@gmail.com

As you decide.

Rob Watts hammers down that his WTA filters and upsampling is best there is and all else

Nah, he just advice not to upsample/oversample and EQ. Provide his dacs with maximum possible information from the signal, so the bit perfect and no EQ. One need to have his level of knowledge to put good arguments what, where, when and why sound the way it does. Which....i don't know that many people worldwide that can do that. And the one that can will probably not do it anyway. So best way, buy his devices and use them as you like (the way i see it at least).

"Which....i don't know that many people worldwide that can do that." - and the ones that can would not do it probably. For most of time it does not go well.

but some of his replies are like informecials , half info half commercial , self praising his designs.

Yes, i like this. No other manufacturer (does not matter of what, DAPs, headphones or amplifiers) gives that much information.

I am convinced, Neutron oversampling improves the sound, how or why is a mystery, until I get some answers.

This is good but....you could just listen and that's it.

I mean, apparently he says it cannot and should not sound better. Best is bit-perfect. That's not just for Mojo, but for all his DACs. Which leads me to believe, it's just he does tune the devices and engineer them by really listening them. Not just assemble some parts, it works, have sound, so let's put them them out on the market. However, his ears are not the same as yours or mine let's say. Meybe the difference come from this.

The transmission of signals and such thing as the EQ works with Fourier Transformations as far as i know. I am sure you know that. I don't know a lot, just giving advices here in the topic for people to try PCM to DSD mainly, since for common dac chips seems really to improve sound. Especially on Fiio devices.

 

[Julius Decimus]

what filters are used, I don't know

You need to ask the developers. Meybe they will give information. Meybe not since it's not problem with the program functionality actually. But worth a try i guess.

I meant it from this point view: why would Neutron developer explain how his program work, right (and what algorithms used). So...i am sure...., i believe this person has knowledge that can be compared with mister Watts. Well meybe less experience designing audio devices, but for signals and how they are and should be processed by DACs, knows a lot. Would not be able to write custom driver and software that works on wide range devices otherwise. The processing functions in Neutron really does improve the sound unlike other players. And according to his comments here from the past, take a look at the language used and overall everything. This is just not random person selling programs advertaising they sound good. Neutron player really does the things written in its feature list.

I saw the topic in their forum....i don't know if will answer there. Best bet is ask on the email and i believe can give you some information, not in detail meybe but enough to satisfy curiosity (if i can call it like that, as i know you seriously want to know what it is). Or ask on PM in the forum, might work as well.

https://neutroncode.com/forum/membe...file&u=2&sid=3ce11071ab2b849aa1b446d3560c4d45

Explain the situation and what happends, hope you find your answers.

PS: i see forum got updated and now i can't find the message icon with which you can start PM. There is now 'add friend' option when you look at one's profile. So meybe need to do that first, add friend and then will have option to write PM. Not sure though. Looks like the e-mail is the way to go.

PS2: yeah, just tried, adding as friend does not do anything for messages. E-mail is the way to go.

 

[Julius Decimus]

I believe the oversampling is an interpolation process. what filters are used, I don't know.

PS: i see forum got updated and now i can't find the message icon with which you can start PM. There is now 'add friend' option when you look at one's profile. So meybe need to do that first, add friend and then will have option to write PM. Not sure though. Looks like the e-mail is the way to go.

PS2: just tried, adding as friend does not do anything for messages. E-mail is the way to go.

Just to make sure you saw this.

 

[Kentajalli]

I emailed the developers of Neutron, waiting for their response.