[GoldenSound]

Hi to everyone!

I have a Holo May KTE for a month now and I will like to write my impressions since this DAC has been discussed here.

First of all I came from a Holo Spring 2 KTE DAC used in a headphone setup: MacBook-Audirvana-Ifi micro USB 3- DAC- Niimbus US4 - Susvara. I have this setup for more then 2 years now so I know it very well.

At first, when introducing the May in this setup it was a little odd. The sound was coming very wide on left and right but not in the center. After 300 h of burn in things are even now. From the beginning it appeared it has a more “hi fi” tuning, upper midrange and low treble seam more forward then the Spring. I tried different cables but the shouty midrange was still there. I used diferent sources, deactivated the PLL function but had the same results.
I thought that maybe my setup was not compatible with this DAC. Maybe it is to detail for my liking.

Don’t get me wrong, the May sounds great, very good separation of instruments, powerful bass, natural highs. And the best thing is the PLL system which is allowing any source to sound great (I have not seen any DAC until now that is so immune to poor digital source).
BUT the listening fatigue that this unit in this setup is given me was bothering.

So I end up getting a very good source (Mano streamer) and my old Holo Spring KTE (which I have sold to a friend) to make some critical comparisons. And here is what I found:

First using the PLL off on the May:
Holo Spring 2 KTE was surprisingly more clean sounding, more relaxed, effortless and pleasing to listen, from the same source. Holo May KTE was almost the same, just a little more dynamic and it had that fatiguing quality. Then I put some music that had quite passages and the truth started to come out. On songs like “Liberty” by Annette Askvik or “When the party is over” by Billie Eilist where there are some pauses in the music and then the sounds come almost like from nowhere, things that on Holo Spring 2 was an amazing experience and very well rendered, on Holo May KTE was a disappointment, the black background was never there, there was always a plankton noise from where the sound started.

Then I switched the PLL on and do the same comparison. This plankton noise was attenuated but not to the same level as the Holo Spring wick had 0 noise.

So, I think this is distortion of some kind. I tried different inputs and the results are the same. I hope that my Holo May KTE has some technical problems, and this is not a design problem. I already contacted the dealer to see what he can do.

It is unfortunately and a little outrageous that this thing is happening on a 5.600 euro DAC with KTE - presumably double quality check!

If you have other methods to test for distortion, please recommend me some.

I will report back with news!

Is the issue in one channel or both?
If it's an analog issue it'd be odd for it to be in both channels given as they're completely dual mono. As is the psu

If it's in both it would suggest it's most likely something on the digital section?

Just to check, did you connect the interlink cable between the psu & dac before or after you connected the psu to the mains?

 

[zorilon]

Is the issue in one channel or both?
If it's an analog issue it'd be odd for it to be in both channels given as they're completely dual mono. As is the psu

If it's in both it would suggest it's most likely something on the digital section?

Just to check, did you connect the interlink cable between the psu & dac before or after you connected the psu to the mains?

Yes, it is in both channels. It is very subtle but when a song has a lot of instruments it is fatiguing after some time.
I connect the interlink cable first (it has the yellow sign to it that you can’t miss).

 

[sajunky]

At first, when introducing the May in this setup it was a little odd. The sound was coming very wide on left and right but not in the center. After 300 h of burn in things are even now. From the beginning it appeared it has a more “hi fi” tuning, upper midrange and low treble seam more forward then the Spring. I tried different cables but the shouty midrange was still there. I used diferent sources, deactivated the PLL function but had the same results.

It looks to me a reversed phase in one channel. It is probably due to be a bug in the receiver, and a "plankton noise" is in result of pre-processing the signal which arrive to a DSP with a phase already reversed. I know that Holo is doing pre-processing even in NOS mode, this is the place they try to deal with a wrong segmented or compensation ladder response to a fast transients.

You can try a different input port, flashing a firmware, if it fails, I have no further suggestion. Anyway, I do preferer a pure R2R ladder like in a TotalDAC, Denafrips or Audio GD than a good measuring techno-freaks.

 

[new2mus]

@GoldenOne This is amazing work. Before reading your review (and now subscribing/watching on YT), I was convinced I was going to work my way up from Mscaler +Qutest to MScaler + TT2 and, eventually, to MScaler + Dave. Now, I'm conflicted. The May LII or Kitsune + HQP would be a huge savings over MScaler + TT2/Dave.

Also, in your opinion/experience, is it better to upgrade amp first before the dac? Currently, I have the SR1a with Jot R. I am wondering if I should update amp to HSA-1b before upgrading the Dac.

Thanks and keep up the great work.

 

[GoldenSound]

@GoldenOne This is amazing work. Before reading your review (and now subscribing/watching on YT), I was convinced I was going to work my way up from Mscaler +Qutest to MScaler + TT2 and, eventually, to MScaler + Dave. Now, I'm conflicted. The May LII or Kitsune + HQP would be a huge savings over MScaler + TT2/Dave.

Also, in your opinion/experience, is it better to upgrade amp first before the dac? Currently, I have the SR1a with Jot R. I am wondering if I should update amp to HSA-1b before upgrading the Dac.

Thanks and keep up the great work.

Thank you!

In regards to dac vs amp upgrade first, It honestly depends on what you have now. Without having tried the raal or either the Jot R or HSA-1b I can't really say unfortunately which would be the better upgrade.

Though if you have the MScaler+Qutest at the moment, those would probably sell for enough to get the may so you could get the dac upgrade "free" now. And then save for the amp

 

[new2mus]

Thank you!

In regards to dac vs amp upgrade first, It honestly depends on what you have now. Without having tried the raal or either the Jot R or HSA-1b I can't really say unfortunately which would be the better upgrade.

Though if you have the MScaler+Qutest at the moment, those would probably sell for enough to get the may so you could get the dac upgrade "free" now. And then save for the amp

Thanks. I'm starting to think the same. With a sale of the Mscaler + Qutest I can immediately fund the May and have enough to fund the HSA-1b simultaneously.

 

[new2mus]

Thank you!

In regards to dac vs amp upgrade first, It honestly depends on what you have now. Without having tried the raal or either the Jot R or HSA-1b I can't really say unfortunately which would be the better upgrade.

Though if you have the MScaler+Qutest at the moment, those would probably sell for enough to get the may so you could get the dac upgrade "free" now. And then save for the amp

One more question (and thanks for your help). How did you find the soundstage compared between the May and the MScaler+Dave combo. I particularly enjoy soundstage depth and almost holographic nature of MScaler + Chord dac. While other dacs seem to do soundstage width very well, I'm not sure about depth and the almost 3D/holographic effect. I am just starting out and don't have much experience with different Dacs.

 

[zorilon]

It looks to me a reversed phase in one channel. It is probably due to be a bug in the receiver, and a "plankton noise" is in result of pre-processing the signal which is arriving to a DSP with a phase already reversed. I know that Holo is doing pre-processing even in NOS mode, this is the place they try to deal with a wrong sgmented or compensation ladder response to a fast transients.

You can try a different input port, flashing a firmware, it it fails, I have no further suggestion. Anyway, I do preferer a pure R2R ladder like in a TotalDAC, Denafrips or Audio GD than a good measuring techno-freaks.

Well I had that problem with a Violectric V280 headphone amp, I know how an inverted phase sounds (it produces a strange stereo imaging) is not that.
The dealer should give me some information, I will not intervene in any form on such an expensive device after just one month of using.
It is a little silly in a way that we buy this expensive precision electronic instruments and we don’t ask for some measurement papers or any kind of proof in this regard.

 

[lairpost]

One more question (and thanks for your help). How did you find the soundstage compared between the May and the MScaler+Dave combo. I particularly enjoy soundstage depth and almost holographic nature of MScaler + Chord dac. While other dacs seem to do soundstage width very well, I'm not sure about depth and the almost 3D/holographic effect. I am just starting out and don't have much experience with different Dacs.

I've never heard the MScaler+DAVE combo but the May is exceedingly holographic in my system. Spooky at times.

 

[Triode User]

I am sat here in the UK on a drab wet morning having my breakfast and have just had an enjoyable time reading through this interesting thread and thank you to @GoldenOne for doing the review and starting the thread.

I confess that I am a long term Chord fan and have the Dave and mscaler but I did not go there directly and have had diversions along the way. The Bricasti M1SE is mentioned in the review and I owned one for a year just prior to getting the Dave. I have heard quite a few NOS DACs from China and Europe in my system courtesy of a friend who is enthusiastic about them. They have ranged from the Aries II upwards but whilst they include a few in the Holo May price range and above I have not yet heard a Holo May.

To my ears the NOS and R2R DACs I have heard all share a common trait which is that they sound impressive and whilst they seem to exhibit detail to the notes and instruments they never seem to bring it all together and create music. The sum of the parts just stays as parts. When I hear them I never find myself feeling that the whole sound is greater than the sum of the parts if that makes sense.

As an aside, I bought the Dave because in comparison to it the M1SE had a tendency to create a ‘wall of sound’ in complex orchestral passages and I ceased to be able to hear the individual instruments in the orchestra. The Dave in contrast handles these complex passages with aplomb. A typical track I am thinking of for this is Mars from the Planets Suite where everything comes to a crescendo with deep organ underpinning the sound.

I bought my Dave about 6 months after it was introduced. I have also owned a Blu Mk2 and now own an MScaler. I am not adverse to trying other options and I own a license for HQP and I can see why people like it even though I prefer the Mscaler. My lifetime subscription for Roon is however not currently paying any dividends because I find the loss in sound quality to be too off putting.

But for the last year and a half my ultimate DAC has been a Dave modified to take a Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply. I am afraid to say that knocks the original Dave into a cocked hat. Would it have changed @GoldenOne ’s conclusions? I suspect it would but of course one is then into a different price bracket but to my ears it is worth every penny. I will however suggest to my friend that it is about time that he gets a Holo May so I can hear one!

 

[sajunky]

I have heard quite a few NOS DACs from China and Europe in my system courtesy of a friend who is enthusiastic about them. They have ranged from the Aries II upwards but whilst they include a few in the Holo May price range and above I have not yet heard a Holo May.

To my ears the NOS and R2R DACs I have heard all share a common trait which is that they sound impressive and whilst they seem to exhibit detail to the notes and instruments they never seem to bring it all together and create music. The sum of the parts just stays as parts. When I hear them I never find myself feeling that the whole sound is greater than the sum of the parts if that makes sense.

It would be interesting to see your friends opinion about other NOS DACs, his preferences and then about Holo products when available. From your side I am sure a May would be a big hit. It is doing a lot of sound preprocessing, it would be a perfect match. I personally didn't hear any, so take it as a quess.

I read other comments with interest, but I am really puzzled with a second paragraph. Re: details in the individual notes and instruments: it is actually a strong attribute of of Delta-Sigma converters like Dave. A sound is clean and very detailed. What DS converters do not do well is a presentation of dynamic changes in the individual notes over the time, a dynamics in a sound which is called by musicians a timbre. A note sounds static from the beginning to end, an example is a piano note (which is actually very complex nature). Instruments which present small changes in a base frequency are silenced, a prime example is a gong that comes with a flat sound in the beginning and disappears in the background quick, as DSP takes these changes as a noise.

Now when we combine harmonic presentation of multiple instruments, this poor reaction to the constant changes in the individual notes create simplified harmonic structures. It can be pleasant to our ears, but it is not a natural presentation of music. On the poor DS implementations it can even create false dissonant effects. Better implementations try to avoid such artifacts. In other words, I completely disagree that NOS DACs fail to create music. I would agree if it is said: "it fails to create a smooth, simplified music".

 

[GoldenSound]

I am sat here in the UK on a drab wet morning having my breakfast and have just had an enjoyable time reading through this interesting thread and thank you to @GoldenOne for doing the review and starting the thread.

I confess that I am a long term Chord fan and have the Dave and mscaler but I did not go there directly and have had diversions along the way. The Bricasti M1SE is mentioned in the review and I owned one for a year just prior to getting the Dave. I have heard quite a few NOS DACs from China and Europe in my system courtesy of a friend who is enthusiastic about them. They have ranged from the Aries II upwards but whilst they include a few in the Holo May price range and above I have not yet heard a Holo May.

To my ears the NOS and R2R DACs I have heard all share a common trait which is that they sound impressive and whilst they seem to exhibit detail to the notes and instruments they never seem to bring it all together and create music. The sum of the parts just stays as parts. When I hear them I never find myself feeling that the whole sound is greater than the sum of the parts if that makes sense.

As an aside, I bought the Dave because in comparison to it the M1SE had a tendency to create a ‘wall of sound’ in complex orchestral passages and I ceased to be able to hear the individual instruments in the orchestra. The Dave in contrast handles these complex passages with aplomb. A typical track I am thinking of for this is Mars from the Planets Suite where everything comes to a crescendo with deep organ underpinning the sound.

I bought my Dave about 6 months after it was introduced. I have also owned a Blu Mk2 and now own an MScaler. I am not adverse to trying other options and I own a license for HQP and I can see why people like it even though I prefer the Mscaler. My lifetime subscription for Roon is however not currently paying any dividends because I find the loss in sound quality to be too off putting.

But for the last year and a half my ultimate DAC has been a Dave modified to take a Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply. I am afraid to say that knocks the original Dave into a cocked hat. Would it have changed @GoldenOne ’s conclusions? I suspect it would but of course one is then into a different price bracket but to my ears it is worth every penny. I will however suggest to my friend that it is about time that he gets a Holo May so I can hear one!

It would be interesting to see your friends opinion about other NOS DACs, his preferences and then about Holo products when available. From your side I am sure a May would be a big hit. It is doing a lot of sound preprocessing, it would be a perfect match. I personally didn't hear any, so take it as a quess.

I read other comments with interest, but I am really puzzled with a second paragraph. Re: details in the individual notes and instruments: it is actually a strong attribute of of Delta-Sigma converters like Dave. A sound is clean and very detailed. What DS converters do not do well is a presentation of dynamic changes in the individual notes over the time, a dynamics in a sound which is called by musicians a timbre. A note sounds static from the beginning to end, an example is a piano note (which is actually very complex nature). Instruments which present small changes in a base frequency are silenced, a prime example is a gong that comes with a flat sound in the beginning and disappears in the background quick, as DSP takes these changes as a noise.

Now when we combine harmonic presentation of multiple instruments, this poor reaction to the constant changes in the individual notes create simplified harmonic structures. It can be pleasant to our ears, but it is not a natural presentation of music. On the poor DS implementations it can even create false dissonant effects. Better implementations try to avoid such artifacts. In other words, I completely disagree that NOS DACs fail to create music. I would agree if it is said: "it fails to create a smooth, simplified music".

Something you might find interesting is it turns out that denafrips dacs might not actually be NOS after all.

I have the ares 2 in for review at the moment. And initially I was surprised both because I really didn't like the nos mode on it much, preferring OS. But also because the changes between os and nos were very different in sound to on the may.

I recorded the impulse response and.... Yeah
.... This ain't NOS.

Basically the 'nos' mode is just linearly interpolating from sample to sample, ie:it is still oversampling.
Rather than what actual nos would do which is adjust to the value of the new sample once it arrives, hold, and then adjust to the value of the next sample once it arrives etc etc.

Denafrips is instead moving in a line directly toward the next sample.

This is a 15khz sine which shows the behaviour quite well:

I do still quite like the dac in OS mode. And the ares 2 especially at it's price is a fantastic choice. But yeah, it does seem that the nos mode isn't nos at all.

 

[Christer]

I am sat here in the UK on a drab wet morning having my breakfast and have just had an enjoyable time reading through this interesting thread and thank you to @GoldenOne for doing the review and starting the thread.

I confess that I am a long term Chord fan and have the Dave and mscaler but I did not go there directly and have had diversions along the way. The Bricasti M1SE is mentioned in the review and I owned one for a year just prior to getting the Dave. I have heard quite a few NOS DACs from China and Europe in my system courtesy of a friend who is enthusiastic about them. They have ranged from the Aries II upwards but whilst they include a few in the Holo May price range and above I have not yet heard a Holo May.

To my ears the NOS and R2R DACs I have heard all share a common trait which is that they sound impressive and whilst they seem to exhibit detail to the notes and instruments they never seem to bring it all together and create music. The sum of the parts just stays as parts. When I hear them I never find myself feeling that the whole sound is greater than the sum of the parts if that makes sense.

As an aside, I bought the Dave because in comparison to it the M1SE had a tendency to create a ‘wall of sound’ in complex orchestral passages and I ceased to be able to hear the individual instruments in the orchestra. The Dave in contrast handles these complex passages with aplomb. A typical track I am thinking of for this is Mars from the Planets Suite where everything comes to a crescendo with deep organ underpinning the sound.

I bought my Dave about 6 months after it was introduced. I have also owned a Blu Mk2 and now own an MScaler. I am not adverse to trying other options and I own a license for HQP and I can see why people like it even though I prefer the Mscaler. My lifetime subscription for Roon is however not currently paying any dividends because I find the loss in sound quality to be too off putting.

But for the last year and a half my ultimate DAC has been a Dave modified to take a Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply. I am afraid to say that knocks the original Dave into a cocked hat. Would it have changed @GoldenOne ’s conclusions? I suspect it would but of course one is then into a different price bracket but to my ears it is worth every penny. I will however suggest to my friend that it is about time that he gets a Holo May so I can hear one!

Hello Nick, same here in Sweden, today again! Drab, wet and cold, truly miserable Mayweather has me still alternating between my fireplace to load more firewood to keep me warm,my piano for some tonally rich real acoustic reference point instrumental sounds, and this new thread which I also found today.
Tune of the day on the piano, "What a Wonderful World".

You also own HQ Player don´t you?
Have you ever made any direct comparisons between its max capacity settings and Mscaler/Dave with any of the dacs discussed here?

Like you I am quite familiar with what the Mscaler can do both with a standard Dave, TT2 and my own Qutest, but I am also very curious to hear if HQP might be a much cheaper contender for future travels if that ever becomes possible again.

Judging by the tech figures made in this tread in comparison to Mscaler, it might be that cheap contender I am looking for once I upgrade my laptop.
HQP doesn´t work with my old mbp unfortunately.
Audio Bacon´s recent review also hinted at such a possibility.

But if I remember his HQP /HMS review correctly, he ran his Mscaler on blue instead of full 1M taps?
If so I wonder why he did that?

It may even be possible that HQP might actually beat Mscaler if those numbers quoted here both are correct and really do mattter?

So far Rob´s tech is the best I have personally auditioned.
But that does not rule out the possibility of the competition catching up, does it?
I´d also love to hear your system.
My own much more humble Qutest/Mscaler combo actually sounds better via optical out from a cheap cd player with 16/44.1 material,than usb/Audirvana via my laptop playing the same tracks ripped ,so I may at least try the Innous Phoenix or some other usb cleanup solution to bring rbcd via usb on level with optical in my system.
Cheers CC

 

[GoldenSound]

But if I remember his HQP /HMS review correctly, he ran his Mscaler on blue instead of full 1M taps?
If so I wonder why he did that

The review was almost entirely done/opinions formed using the full output rate/1m taps.

During the video I had to use the 192khz/blue option for some so that I could quickly a/b between mscaler on vs Passthrough.

The reason being that when you switch to full output rate/768khz on dual bnc, the Dave takes a few seconds to realise that it's dual bnc. And so there is a few seconds of mono playback.

This makes it impossible to ab test properly because going from passthrough, to mono playback, to stereo full upsampling skews things significantly. Anything will sound amazing coming from mono

You can go from 768khz dual bnc to passthrough instantly though so I did spend quite a bit of time doing that.

 

[Christer]

The review was almost entirely done/opinions formed using the full output rate/1m taps.

During the video I had to use the 192khz/blue option for some so that I could quickly a/b between mscaler on vs Passthrough.

The reason being that when you switch to full output rate/768khz on dual bnc, the Dave takes a few seconds to realise that it's dual bnc. And so there is a few seconds of mono playback.

This makes it impossible to ab test properly because going from passthrough, to mono playback, to stereo full upsampling skews things significantly. Anything will sound amazing coming from mono

You can go from 768khz dual bnc to passthrough instantly though so I did spend quite a bit of time doing that.

Thanks for the clarification regarding your review.
But I was thinking of Audio Bacon´s review.
And from what I read from both reviews, HQP sounds like it could be an interesting and much cheaper software alternative to the VERY expensive not upgradeable hardware FPGA route taken by Chord.
I need to upgrade my laptop before trying HQP though.
Cheers CC