An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer

[littlej0e]

If you have the May then you don't need anything beefy cause you're probably going to want to upsample to PCM anyway.

DSD upsampling is beneficial with delta sigma dacs because then you ensure that the modulation is done in the best way possible. But the May can convert PCM natively cause R2R, and at fantastic levels of performance, so no need to run 1-bit. (In fact doing so would somewhat defeat the purpose of buying a May or R2R dac in the first place given as you wouldn't actually be using the R2R converter! )


You can do HQP PCM upsampling without too much PC horsepower. Its the DSD modulators that really need juice

Thanks for the info and education. I really appreciate it. Holy crap there is so much to know...

I’m having a custom server/streamer built, so I’ll make sure it has enough horsepower to do PCM upsampling with HQ Player (preferably up to the May’s max PCM upscaling capability). I mean, it would be a shame not to use the May to it’s full potential after spending all that money on it.

Thanks again for the guidance!

 

[]eep]

I don't think upscaling is the answer. You can't make up information that isn't there. However, if upsampling makes it easier on the dac and you like it...

The better option imho is to get better source material that retains more information from the original recording.

 

[littlej0e]

I don't think upscaling is the answer. You can't make up information that isn't there. However, if upsampling makes it easier on the dac and you like it...

The better option imho is to get better source material that retains more information from the original recording.

I agree, but I discovered options are always a great thing to have. That’s all upscaling is in my view.

I love how the May seems to smooth out the edges of digital music and if HQ Player upscaling can do the same, or even more so, I’d love to hear it.

 

[littlej0e]

If you have the May then you don't need anything beefy cause you're probably going to want to upsample to PCM anyway.

DSD upsampling is beneficial with delta sigma dacs because then you ensure that the modulation is done in the best way possible. But the May can convert PCM natively cause R2R, and at fantastic levels of performance, so no need to run 1-bit. (In fact doing so would somewhat defeat the purpose of buying a May or R2R dac in the first place given as you wouldn't actually be using the R2R converter! )


You can do HQP PCM upsampling without too much PC horsepower. Its the DSD modulators that really need juice

HOLY...EFFING....S*&T!!! HQ Player takes the music up a good 5 notches. I have never heard clarity, vocal impact, and musicality like this. It takes my Holo May KTE + HSA-1b + SR1a's to completely new stratosphere.

Thank you so much!

 

[GoldenSound]

HOLY...EFFING....S*&T!!! HQ Player takes the music up a good 5 notches. I have never heard clarity, vocal impact, and musicality like this. It takes my Holo May KTE + HSA-1b + SR1a's to completely new stratosphere.

Thank you so much!

Nice!
What settings are you running atm?

Post your settings window here. There's a few things that should be tweaked from stock to get better performance

 

[littlej0e]

Nice!
What settings are you running atm?

Post your settings window here. There's a few things that should be tweaked from stock to get better performance

Settings attached. For some reason, I seem to get the best vocal impact from the poly-sync-lp filters, but I'm certainly open to whatever you recommend

I also noticed the May doesn't want to go above 768k no matter what I do.

 

[GoldenSound]

Settings attached. For some reason, I seem to get the best vocal impact from the poly-sync-lp filters, but I'm certainly open to whatever you recommend

I also noticed the May doesn't want to go above 768k no matter what I do.

Few things that i'd recommend changing as annotated in the pic:

1) Download and install the latest holo drivers (I attached them to this post if you need them). Then change backend to "ASIO" and select Holo Audio in the "device" box

2) Enable 48k DSD

3) Change "DAC Bits" to 20

4) Change Dither to LNS15

5) Optionally, you can flash the 3012 firmware and use 1.536mhz sample rate. But this requires that you have an intel PC, won't work with AMD. If you have AMD (or just don't want to swap firmware) then can just stick to 768khz

After that, try experimenting with different filters. My personal fav is Sinc-M, but its a preference thing, no 'right' answer per se.
Happy listening!

 

[littlej0e]

Few things that i'd recommend changing as annotated in the pic:

1) Download and install the latest holo drivers (I attached them to this post if you need them). Then change backend to "ASIO" and select Holo Audio in the "device" box

2) Enable 48k DSD

3) Change "DAC Bits" to 20

4) Change Dither to LNS15

5) Optionally, you can flash the 3012 firmware and use 1.536mhz sample rate. But this requires that you have an intel PC, won't work with AMD. If you have AMD (or just don't want to swap firmware) then can just stick to 768khz

After that, try experimenting with different filters. My personal fav is Sinc-M, but its a preference thing, no 'right' answer per se.
Happy listening!

I made all of the changes you recommended and my jaw is straight up on the floor. The SQ is just unreal... Mind 100% blown. I also have a strong form of synesthesia and I am legit afraid of what this is going to do to me when I have more time to concentrate and listen (or when my Abyss 1266 TCs and WA33 EE JPS finally arrive). Good lord. You were also right about the sync-M filter. It has the same impact as poly-sync-lp, but with more clarity and less "hiss" noise/distortion.

Unfortunately, I'm running an AMD on my gaming PC but my custom server will be Intel. Is there a noticeable difference between 768k and 1.536MHz? There is/was obviously an enormous difference between 48k and 768k. My server builder said he will likely have to upgrade some of the components if I want to go full 1.536MHz (namely add a bigger 500W power supply, add active push/pull cooling, and upgrade to a mid-tower chassis).

Lastly...bro, do you have a tip jar?!?

 

[GoldenSound]

I made all of the changes you recommended and my jaw is straight up on the floor. The SQ is just unreal... Mind 100% blown. I also have a strong form of synesthesia and I am legit afraid of what this is going to do to me when I have more time to concentrate and listen (or when my Abyss 1266 TCs and WA33 EE JPS finally arrive). Good lord. You were also right about the sync-M filter. It has the same impact as poly-sync-lp, but with more clarity and less "hiss" noise/distortion.

Unfortunately, I'm running an AMD on my gaming PC but my custom server will be Intel. Is there a noticeable difference between 768k and 1.536MHz? There is/was obviously an enormous difference between 48k and 768k. My server builder said he will likely have to upgrade some of the components if I want to go full 1.536MHz (namely add a bigger 500W power supply, add active push/pull cooling, and upgrade to a mid-tower chassis).

Lastly...bro, do you have a tip jar?!?

Glad you're enjoying it!
Its crazy how much of an improvement it can bring.

There isn't really a big difference between 768khz and 1.536mhz no.

Going from 44.1khz to 192khz is a BIG jump. 192 to 768khz is noticeable but not as big.

768khz vs 1.536mhz honestly I couldn't tell the difference normally. I use 768khz myself (mostly cause that's the max my streamer does) but I have tried 1.536mhz from the pc a few times.

I really wouldn't recommend going overboard on the server. A half decent i5 is enough for full 1.536mhz pcm stuff so no need for anything overkill

I do have a patreon for my YouTube channel, that's probably the closest thing XD

Lmk if I can help more!

 

[koven]

HQP is a game changer on the May! I'm settled on sinc-L PCM768 for now but it's fun to play with and compare all the settings.
I repurposed an older gaming PC into a hackjob Audiolinux server right now w/ USB into May. I was going to commission a custom server build but then decided to DIY it instead. I've been piecing together the part list but many items have supply issues weeks out. Now I'm thinking what if I stick with this 'mediocre' server w/o LPS and whatnot, but invest in a quality NAA instead like SOtM w/ LPS. My hypothesis is that issues like server noise become less relevant (irrelevant?) if it's ultimately being sent over network to the NAA endpoint. What do you think?

 

[]eep]

About balanced inputs and prices

maybe off-topic but since it's a review by Goldensound; I just watched the review of the Holo Audio pre-amp. I like the looks and the quality. And the number of inputs. Only I don't like the perspective of the look of my bank account afterwards... Man, that is a hefty pricetag. Also the 'cheap' alternative Goldpoint passive preamp is really not 'balanced' in price for whats inside. I understand that people have been convinced that 'balanced' must be better since people who are unbalanced... well, you don't want to associate with them of cource since there's obviously something wrong in the noggin'. But all there is special to that preamp is the 4 channel stepped attenuator. The rest is just a step up from looking home labour.

I am looking at the SMSL SP400 headphone amplifier and it does much of what the Holo Sound Serene does for the price of the Goldpoint. Balanced input, relay stepped attenuator, great headphone amp, remote. Only less inputs and outputs. But it works great combined with a power amp without volume control. That's a huge price difference. Less audiophile bragging points but much more value for money.

I mean, I get it, I've been an audiophile for almost 4 decades and I like good sound, and good looks. I understand price margins too. But these prices... I've been massively downscaling the last 15 years since I picked up my hobby again (after wasting my money on pc's). Only I've made myself independent of the traditional audio business where everything is done for you (at these imho ridiculous prices). It's not that hard to build in a new different attenuator in an amp. Or make an extra output. Or change out some cheap caps for decent or good ones. There's so much quality sacrificed for the red pencil in favor of the manufacturer's bottom line. It just baffles me how audio gear that have terrible compromised components inside still get rave reviews.

My latest acquisition was an Infineon chip amplifier. It got great reviews so I just picked one that had balanced inputs (you hear? balanced because that must be better!), beside BT and an RCA. So i picked the SMSL DA-8S (yes I like SMSL, much better than I like Topping fi). Now there is some potential value at €145+VAT. So when I finally got it home (after being scammed for an extra fee over VAT) opened it up. Yes, always the first thing I do is void 'warranty' to see what I payed for. And - oh horror - there was the potential at it's minimum flat on the floor (potential energy, get it?)... 1 balanced, 1 unbalanced, that means 6 input caps in a row. at 25 cents a piece that can get expensive! So the put 'audio grade' Muse caps in. Those tiny green 'oversized' 22uF elco thingies. Long story short i changed those on the rca for premium 10uF caps, same for the 4 2.2uF coupling caps and now the amp was on it's full potential. Sooo much better sound. Less veil, more space, black background, definition, articulation, detail and plain enjoyment.

I do agree with Goldensound on the nested feedback opamps comment. It seems this amp has that same thing. It tightens the sound up but also tightens the soundstage, brings it forward and makes the sound barren.

Lesson learned: don't fall for 'balanced'. It's just twice as expensive and unless you don't care about spending double for 3dB gain it's a much better idea to spend that money on quality parts where it counts.
Other lesson: don't let manufacturers do your thinking for you. Kitsune comes to mind. You can do that too. It will save you lots of money and/or get you much more quality. Don't be scared by 'warranty policies'. That's just to say 'trust us we use parts that won't break'. But when it does you will end up paying for the repairs anyway.

So I do appreciate the reviews Goldensound does, but I am put off by these high prices. And that the reviews are all mostly on face value. By that I just mean it's evaluation mainly from the outside. I try to inspect the inside and correllate that with what I hear, or expect to hear. These days I never buy a new component without having a good idea of what is inside, if there are tight passes that I can bypass or not. A point to point soldered board is often easy to fix, all smd with chips is often not scalable (improves with better setup or parts).

 

[GoldenSound]

About balanced inputs and prices

maybe off-topic but since it's a review by Goldensound; I just watched the review of the Holo Audio pre-amp. I like the looks and the quality. And the number of inputs. Only I don't like the perspective of the look of my bank account afterwards... Man, that is a hefty pricetag. Also the 'cheap' alternative Goldpoint passive preamp is really not 'balanced' in price for whats inside. I understand that people have been convinced that 'balanced' must be better since people who are unbalanced... well, you don't want to associate with them of cource since there's obviously something wrong in the noggin'. But all there is special to that preamp is the 4 channel stepped attenuator. The rest is just a step up from looking home labour.

I mean, I get it, I've been an audiophile for almost 4 decades and I like good sound, and good looks. I understand price margins too. But these prices... I've been massively downscaling the last 15 years since I picked up my hobby again (after wasting my money on pc's). Only I've made myself independent of the traditional audio business where everything is done for you (at these imho ridiculous prices). It's not that hard to build in a new different attenuator in an amp. Or make an extra output. Or change out some cheap caps for decent or good ones. There's so much quality sacrificed for the red pencil in favor of the manufacturer's bottom line. It just baffles me how audio gear that have terrible compromised components inside still get rave reviews.

My latest acquisition was an Infineon chip amplifier. It got great reviews so I just picked one that had balanced inputs (you hear? balanced because that must be better!), beside BT and an RCA. So i picked the SMSL DA-8S. Now there is some potential value at €145+VAT. So when I finally got it home (after being scammed for an extra fee over VAT) opened it up. Yes, always the first thing I do is void 'warranty' to see what I payed for. And - oh horror - there was the potential (RIP)... 1 balanced, 1 unbalanced, that means 6 input caps in a row. at 25 cents a piece that can get expensive! So the put 'audio grade' Muse caps in. Those tiny green 'oversized' 22uF elco thingies. Long story short i changed the rca ones for premium 10uF caps, same for the 4 2.2uF coupling caps and now the amp was on it's full potential. Sooo much better sound. Less veil, more space, black background, definition, articulation, detail and plain enjoyment.

Lesson learned: don't fall for 'balanced'. It's just twice as expensive and unless you don't care about spending double for 3dB gain it's a much better idea to spend that money on quality parts where it counts.
Other lesson: don't let manufacturers do your thinking for you. Kitsune comes to mind. You can do that too. It will save you lots of money and/or get you much more quality. Don't be scared by 'warranty policies'. That's just to say 'trust us we use parts that won't break'. But when it does you will end up paying for the repairs anyway.

So I do appreciate the reviews Goldensound does, but I am put off by these high prices. And that the reviews are all mostly on face value. By that I just mean it's evaluation mainly from the outside. I try to inspect the inside and correllate that with what I hear, or expect to hear. These days I never buy a new component without having a good idea of what is inside, if there are tight passes that I can bypass or not. A point to point soldered board is often easy to fix, all smd with chips is often not scalable (improves with better setup or parts).

I agree that given the components of the goldpoint the cost is rather steep. BUT, the resale value is still there, and it's also never going to be outdated.
I do wish there were better cheaper alternatives, but the only ones that I could find were indeed objectively poorer. The nobsound balanced passive preamp being an example despite using an alps pot:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...uator-comparison-technical-measurements.7324/

If someone is DIY-handy though, I imagine you could build a pretty stellar passive pre for not too much money. As the pot or stepped attenuators themselves can be purchased for fairly reasonable prices from various manufacturers like dact, khozmo, alps, or goldpoint.

In regards to balanced vs SE, I agree that technically there shouldn't be much of a difference/benefit. But the problem is that much of the good gear nowadays is balanced, and has poor SE input/output stages in many cases. Meaning if you want to use single ended you don't have many good options. I do hope this changes in future though.

I do review a fair bit of lower cost stuff, and also take a look and discuss the components inside. Have a look at my Bifrost 2 or SGD1 reviews for example.
The only reason I didn't open it up in this instance is because I wasn't too keen on invalidating my warranty immediately on a rather expensive product.
Though I did try to discuss the topology and why I felt it was preferable to other well-measuring alternatives like the opamp based Pre-90

 

[]eep]

I think we are pretty much on the same page.

I get it that there is quite a bit a a threshold on opening up a new €2500 component. That's why I said 'scared'. The price just makes the word 'warranty' all the more intimidating. But my question was; should it be? I have a €5000 cartridge that I am supposed to mount myself. The first time that cost me quite a few drops of sweat on my brow.

Only I can't seriously justify buying a €2500 component (or €450) when I only need part of it and it doesn't bring me any benefit over a €45 unit. I have a Douk audio passive pre-amp with 3 RCA relay inputs, 2 outputs of which 1 with a cheap attenuator that works just fine for the bass amp. Only lacking is the remote.

What I could use is a remote volume control because of a problem caused by my android tv and its youtube app. Way too loud! Blame the app, YouTube or amateurish producers, it creates a problem I never had before. Not tv-box, not Netflix, not satellite TV. Anyway. That's one. Now a good headphone out is not really a priority from my stereo. But welcome. I have a €300 translinear current amplifier (also sold by... but I didn't get it there) that blows anything I ever had out of the water. It has a volume pot that works just fine. So a pre-amp is actually redundant. That's why I only use a switch now.

So like you said in the video, not everyone needs a pre-amp. Horses for courses. With many (Chinese) amps nowadays often with very few inputs a passive pre-amp or switch can be a better alternative than a full (pre)amp with plenty of bell and whistles.

 

[zorilon]

Hi to everyone!

I have a Holo May KTE for a month now and I will like to write my impressions since this DAC has been discussed here.

First of all I came from a Holo Spring 2 KTE DAC used in a headphone setup: MacBook-Audirvana-Ifi micro USB 3- DAC- Niimbus US4 - Susvara. I have this setup for more then 2 years now so I know it very well.

At first, when introducing the May in this setup it was a little odd. The sound was coming very wide on left and right but not in the center. After 300 h of burn in things are even now. From the beginning it appeared it has a more “hi fi” tuning, upper midrange and low treble seam more forward then the Spring. I tried different cables but the shouty midrange was still there. I used diferent sources, deactivated the PLL function but had the same results.
I thought that maybe my setup was not compatible with this DAC. Maybe it is to detail for my liking.

Don’t get me wrong, the May sounds great, very good separation of instruments, powerful bass, natural highs. And the best thing is the PLL system which is allowing any source to sound great (I have not seen any DAC until now that is so immune to poor digital source).
BUT the listening fatigue that this unit in this setup is given me was bothering.

So I end up getting a very good source (Mano streamer) and my old Holo Spring KTE (which I have sold to a friend) to make some critical comparisons. And here is what I found:

First using the PLL off on the May:
Holo Spring 2 KTE was surprisingly more clean sounding, more relaxed, effortless and pleasing to listen, from the same source. Holo May KTE was almost the same, just a little more dynamic and it had that fatiguing quality. Then I put some music that had quite passages and the truth started to come out. On songs like “Liberty” by Annette Askvik or “When the party is over” by Billie Eilist where there are some pauses in the music and then the sounds come almost like from nowhere, things that on Holo Spring 2 was an amazing experience and very well rendered, on Holo May KTE was a disappointment, the black background was never there, there was always a plankton noise from where the sound started.

Then I switched the PLL on and do the same comparison. This plankton noise was attenuated but not to the same level as the Holo Spring wick had 0 noise.

So, I think this is distortion of some kind. I tried different inputs and the results are the same. I hope that my Holo May KTE has some technical problems, and this is not a design problem. I already contacted the dealer to see what he can do.

It is unfortunately and a little outrageous that this thing is happening on a 5.600 euro DAC with KTE - presumably double quality check!

If you have other methods to test for distortion, please recommend me some.

I will report back with news!

 

[]eep]

that is very unfortunate.
I do recognize the 'plankton noise before the sound'. That is intermodulation distortion. I first noticed that once on an old Cyrus 2 amplifier. It reminds me of an amplifier stage that isn't working properly. Only there isn't one in the May iirc. Or maybe its a faulty capacitor or contact come loose in transport. I'm not sure.