[Danthrax]

Quote:

I've read all I can find on the 550's and they are very mixed. In addition, I've found that many owners have the same issues I do. Great on paper and hit or miss on the practical application. As for the Pro900's...people either love 'em or hate 'em. I'm hoping to love them. If not, I've got a decent list of prospects to choose from until I find a keeper.
 

Wait for the new Denons?

 

[Watchmaven]

I am aware and appreciate the input. Unfortunately, this purchase requires minimal leakage both in and out. When the opportunity presents itself, the next pair will be open and I can begin the obsessive hunt all over again. I understand it's a totally different listening experience. 

 

[Watchmaven]

I'm sure they will be an audible improvement over the current line but for a couple of reasons, I won't be waiting. First, I'm not horribly patient and won't wait a few months to get what I want. Secondly, I'm not fond of the design. I read the debates on the the post regarding SQ and aesthetics but like many, I'm not a fan of the design. I am a collector of fine watches and industrial design, mechanics, material management and a pleasurable aesthetic are all part of the experience for me. Perhaps when I can hold them and listen, my opinion will change. If I've learned one thing in my almost 50 years is not to say never. Cuz never is a real long time.
 
Thanks taking the time to respond.

 

[.Sup]

Quote:

I am aware and appreciate the input. Unfortunately, this purchase requires minimal leakage both in and out. When the opportunity presents itself, the next pair will be open and I can begin the obsessive hunt all over again. I understand it's a totally different listening experience. 

I'm in the same boat. Haven't found closed ones that would suit me perfectly yet.

 

[ricerocket]

Can someone expand on what "glare" is? Those who hear it, what cans have you had in the past that have had/have not had something similar?
 
I find it interesting that it's on the market for 5 months with no mention of glare, and then 3 people drop by in the past week and consider it a dealbreaker. Was there a design change maybe?

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Can someone expand on what "glare" is? Those who hear it, what cans have you had in the past that have had/have not had something similar?
 
I find it interesting that it's on the market for 5 months with no mention of glare, and then 3 people drop by in the past week and consider it a dealbreaker. Was there a design change maybe?

 
I think it means the sonic equivalent of staring into a Boeing 747's landing lights.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Can someone expand on what "glare" is? Those who hear it, what cans have you had in the past that have had/have not had something similar?

 
Another example is when a headphone, even if its warm or neutral, and then you have something like a vocalist going up a few octaves. The average on the vocals don't hurt your ears, but that one long note going up a few octaves does.

Try Norah Jones' first album - its most notorious for glare in speaker systems where you have time alignment and reflection issues between the HF and MR/LF drivers, like in a car (a small cabin, tweeters too far from the mids) or a very small undampened room. I've only encountered this with a handful of Head-Fi gear though - a Grado SR225 with worn pads, HD600 without the foam cover, and a JLAB J3 IEM. With these T/A and even reflections aren't a problem, but you can still get that bump or distortion through other means. Like a driver too close to your ears, or modding it and turns out it has one disadvantage since you've swayed from the original design.

 

[CantScareMe]

I said i was quitting this thread precisely with the same reason i've come back to post again. Just couldn't help myself could I?
 
Rythmdevils: 
I'm not here for an argument. It just takes too long when typing and all round i can't be asked. I remember in an akg hate thread I questioned why there was people hating the akg lineup of headphones without having listened to either of their reference closed cans or their reference iems- the k550 and k3003 repectively. 
You said.
' cos they deserve it'
 
Simple really. I cracked up at your review of the k550 vs the m50's. But i wasn't surprised one bit. Seriously by the laws of human nature if you hated this item so much before purchasing it, hearing it won't be a wise idea. I stay well clear of nuforce products for exactly the same reason- i'm human too. Awful past experiences with nuforce and i'm not prepared to give them any more of my, errr, love!
 
After a 100 hr burn in/ fit in, If i listen to both headphones out of a standard fiio e9/hrt streamer setup (using a power conditioner to negate any effects of dodgy electical supply) and conclude with something similar to what you came up with- i literally will pour petrol over all my headfi gear, light a match, let it drop and watch it all burn. Because that will be what i'd think of headfi. 
 
 
 
Watchmaven:
I'm not surprised one bit at your report of the k550's. You are running them through a fiio e7. You did post on another thread that on the k550's that i write on and i'm sorry i wasn't able to reply/read the posts. My advise is to unmod the k550, get rid of the e7. Send it back. If not, then sell it. If not then mod the e7 with a cricket/baseball bat. And there's only one way to do that. As a dac/amp the e10 is many many times better especially with a full sized can like the k550. I'll be getting a fiio e17 soon (stupid run of bankholidays coming up in england now, so i have to wait) and expect that to be at least a definite few steps up from the e10.
 
The e7 isn't even half respectable in my eyes with any full size headphone. With iem's it's okay as it blocks bad noises you would hear if you plugged them directly into the headphone jack of your laptop. 
 
If you're going to get a pro900, it's only fair that you try it out of the same e7 you've been using if you want to see how it competes with the k550. Maybe an e17 thereafter. The pro 900 isn't a bad phone so I'm not discouraging you to buy it. I'm just saying- it has every right to also demand a better source than the fiio e7. 

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

I said i was quitting this thread precisely with the same reason i've come back to post again. Just couldn't help myself could I?
 
Rythmdevils: 
I'm not here for an argument. It just takes too long when typing and all round i can't be asked. I remember in an akg hate thread I questioned why there was people hating the akg lineup of headphones without having listened to either of their reference closed cans or their reference iems- the k550 and k3003 repectively. 
You said.
' cos they deserve it'
 
Simple really. I cracked up at your review of the k550 vs the m50's. But i wasn't surprised one bit. Seriously by the laws of human nature if you hated this item so much before purchasing it, hearing it won't be a wise idea. I stay well clear of nuforce products for exactly the same reason- i'm human too. Awful past experiences with nuforce and i'm not prepared to give them any more of my, errr, love!
 

 
 
Unfortunately, you don't understand my views of AKG because you haven't been around long enough and I'm tired of repeating it over and over again.  You don't understand because you are ignorant of AKG's history.  My view toward AKG has come from experience and is not biased in the least bit.  I have heard a lot of AKG's do you want to compare and have a pissing contest?  I am a big fan of AKG's past work.  Look at my "custom title"
 
I do not listen to headphones with bias whatsoever.  I'm not susceptible to snake oil.  I openly share my views about many components which are quite controvertial and which go against all of the head-fi group think. 
 
You probably prefer the K550 because like most head-fiers, all you care about is clarity and soundstage.  And on that, they do have advantages, as I said in my comparison.  But FIDELTIY is about more than your sense of clarity and soundstage.  In fact, soundstage is not important compared to frequency response, tonality, resonance, distortion.  Taken as a complete package including all of these things, the M50 is the better headphone.  Because they put the work into it.  AKG did not put the work into the K550.  Empty plastic cups in a closed headphone = fail.  I say that about the Beyer T1 as well, it has nothing to do with AKG. 
 
If you want to turn this into a personal fight you better be ready. 

 

[CantScareMe]

If i were to respond to your last post, all i would do is copy and paste my last post. Simply put really.
 
I reckon that's good thing.
 
Enjoy your m50's. Enjoy hating the k550.
 
Enough said

 

[rhythmdevils]

I don't hate the K550.  It's got a lot of strengths, which I mentioned along with it's weaknesses.  I'll elaborate in an upcoming post. 
 
Also, I dont think the M50 is the best headphone, or even close, (I never listen to mine) but I do think it is a good benchmark at it's price point, and I like to use it to compare to because everyone has heard the M50, and because there's so much BS backlash surrounding it. 

 

[CantScareMe]

Fair enough.
 
I was going to ask from which amp and source you are hearing the k550's from as i hate it when people who post both positive and negative impressions on a headphone fail to ever mention where they get their impression from- the source. I hope it's not a beasty otl or a tube amp that's made for them orthos/sextetts that you like. The k550 have to sound awful out of these. 
 
One last thing. Not to you, but in general i wanted to point out:
 
The k550 has for the last 2 months at least been selling online in the uk pretty much everywhere for £180. Beyer dt770/m50's all at £130.

 

[Ishcabible]

Quote:

Fair enough.
 
I was going to ask from which amp and source you are hearing the k550's from as i hate it when people who post both positive and negative impressions on a headphone fail to ever mention where they get their impression from- the source. I hope it's not a beasty otl or a tube amp that's made for them orthos/sextetts that you like. The k550 have to sound awful out of these. 
 
One last thing. Not to you, but in general i wanted to point out:
 
The k550 has for the last 2 months at least been selling online in the uk pretty much everywhere for £180. Beyer dt770/m50's all at £130.

From his profile: "EHHA rev A, SOHA1, "The Flux Capacitor" Millet Hybrid SS by FallenAngel, Presonus Firebox"
 
If the K550 was around $200 at Best Buy (which is kind of almost the price converted when you subtract VAT), it'd be a lot easier to recommend, since it's a lot less offensive than most other headphones they sell there, and there are a lot of people that I know that refuse to buy online for whatever reason. I'd probably pick one up myself for transportable usage if they get that low, just to mod. Even from a seriously bad source, they were better than my K271's for the music I tried. I'd love to try it on a legit source though. Even though they sounded mildly disappointing, they had some sort of promise.

 

[CantScareMe]

I searched his profile as well. Using google, these all seem to be tubes/hybrids. I hope i'm wrong in saying that you haven't used a bogstandard desktop solid state amp. Otherwise, seriosly man. I don't know what to say really. From now on i don't give a monkeys about the post count of a headfier or how respected they are on here; i'm looking first at their source. Move on from there.
 
I think it's okay for me to say that headfier 'derbigpr' was using tubes and only after moving away from them did he start to hear the k550 for what it is. Well done to him for taking them steps.
 
Even though my setup may seem embarresing considering the difference in price between it and the headphones i'm currently using it for, i'm going to state it in full. Otherwise i'd feel just dishonest really. When were talking about headphones at this level, we all know how important the umbrella group if you like of 'THE SOURCE' is....don't we.
 
Tacima 6 way mains conditioner (a slightly fancy but awesome 6 way extension plug. All audio related ac powered electronic equipment mentioned hereafter is plugged into this) >>> partially modded (to be audio friendly) abused sammy netbook >>> EAC ripped flac >>> J river 16 with asio4all v2 >>> 50cm £5 usb a-b cable >>> AC powered usb hub >>> 30cm belkin £8 usb a-b cable >>> hrt music streamer II dac (latest version, 2011) >>> 50cm £5 rca-mini cable >>> fiio e9 1/4 inch jack>>>>>> Headphones: akg k550, ultrasone ed8, denon d7000.
 
There it is. Price wise this 'source' (excluding the netbook and software) adds up to....£300. Funny ain't it. I've wasted a lot lot more than this on dodgy amps and other source components i've tried. I'm really going to have to cut down on foreign imports from china from example as royal mail hiked prices up a month ago to insane levels. 'I expected you to punch me' was what the guy at the post office said to me after revealing how much it'll cost to ship over my faulty matrix m stage. With headphones, i haven't wasted much money at all. Luckily. The fiio has never never let me down. That's why I still have it. Love this little thing 
The power conditioner does wonders for the fiio (at least a 100% improvement. No joke), which makes for a surprisingly good rig with the completely awesome hrt music streamer. A mad little thing this is.
Anyway, from this rig and from all of the other rigs i've tried my top three headphones from (ed8, k550, d7k), all that i can say that this innocent rig is very representative of what i've been hearing from these headphones from other sources and that sound wise, all three headphones are very close. Hmmm, don't care what I think do you...
 
 
Experiment (i)   A small informal trial of the triad- not using my ears
I've asked quite a few friends to try these three, out of interest. Complete newbies to headphones, but as they are mathematicians/statisticians (one or two remarkably sharp people- really make me feel completely thick), they know more than a thing or two about bias, testing and often just attach a disgusting level of precision to everything. Disgusting is the best word I could come up with, but it's useful to no end here.
 
So we have three 1500hr+ burned in headphones (i'll briefly explain why this is terrifyingly important later) and plenty of time for testing. I invited people over one at a time and definitely did my best to not influence their perceptions. I like all three headphones remember. All three look equally expensive and hi tech and No one of these people knew anything about ultrasone/denon/akg. I just explained to them how everything works in theory- you know- producer records music, puts it on different types of format, i burn from cd in best quality....etc. Importantly, i made sure they each put on the headphone correctly. Very important this, as was them adjusting the volume of the amplifier when swapping headphones. Of course, another requirement was  using many different genres of music for testing
 
  Okay, let the trials begin.......................after a long time................and finish.
It was a toss up between the k550 and the d7k. Rock bottom was the ed8!!
 
 
The main reason for the k550 edging out the d7k was the better level of air in it's soundstage and more clear midrange when this was an advantage in say classical/ instrumental pieces. Also, they liked the intimacy this gave vocals within it's huge soundstage. Something like the ed8 was just too closed in for comfort. When the d7k edged out the k550, it was when it's superior energy, bass thump, surround sound type of soundstage and natural timbre came to good use. The ed8, sounded to them more left and right than the others, although they did like how fast it was.
 
Detail levels they couldn't really tell between the three. I'd say across every amp/dac i've tried this triad with the ed8 wins in the end with resolution. k550 is pretty much equal if not more resolving than the d7k. The akg's are definitely more resolving than the d2/5k. Not a single doubt here.
The ed8 is the only phone i've come across that has a big bass range without the slightest hint of recession in its midrange/high range. I love it for this main reason. They overall...errr..didn't! 
 
Comfort was between the k550 and the d7k. 
 
Oh, and then i told them the prices. To say that they were shocked was an understatement. You know what, when i just was typing the word 'shocked' just there, i accidentally typed chocked. Should have left that in really as it's a better way of describing it! 
Overall they just couldn't figure out why the other two costed so much more than the k550. I'd say the ed8 needs a better amp most likely, which is the only region where i felt the fiio to be inadequate.Still, out of this rig, I'd say that technically SQ wise the ed8 leads the pack, with the d7k second next to the k550.
 
  mini conclusion. It doesn't mean or say too much to tell the truth. Not a extremely formal test and at the end of the day it's with 'noobs' really. Unbiased ones though, which was nice to see. Interpret it as you wish.
 
 
 
Experiment B: Denon Burn in
There was this guy on a d7k thread who reported having noticed the d5k's changing bigtime after 1500hrs of burn in. Actually, no- he gave a precise to the nearest hour time (something like 1564 hours. Can't be bothered to find the post) and his complaint was that now that he's got the d7k's he's going to have do something similar with these.
 
Nutcase innit. Like a real full on headfi nutcase. That's what I thought of him.
 
I then asked myself why. Okay, i've tried burn in up till 400/500 hours say and nothing happened. But what is that saying about at 1500hrs. Actually, nothing. 
 
So i decided to find out once and for all with the d7k. It wasn't impressing me much at all after it's initial 'magic' faded after the first 3 days of listening. I had the k550 firmly at the front of the que when it came to selecting a headphone for long term music listening, so the denon's weren't really going to get a listen to. Instead of packing them up and letting them enjoy the fancy silk lined interior of their box, untill lawton's angle pads arrive, I had to try it out.......you know burn them in for 2000 hours.
 
Yep.
 
2000 hours.
I'm not taking the biscuit. Honest.
 
I hooked up a sansa fuze to a permanent ac outlet and plugged the denons in. Sitting on a stand cosily they had a constant stream of pink noise coming through them. 15min pink noise with a 45 second silent period at the end all in a perpetual loop. Normal volume. I heard the result after 500 hours and was bitterly dissapointed. HEY. 2000hrs remember. So I left them in and didn't feel the urge even once to touch them once. Exams over, I took a listen. I nearly peed my pants. No joke. 
It was there. Burn in exists. 
 
 
   conditions
I can hear you saying- well how did you test it. What were the conditions, how did i measure burn in and what were the variables in this mini experiment? Well, I could go on for the next 3 hours and let my ocd express it self in assembling a crazy but honest list. For your sake, moreso my sake actually i'll list a few:
 
- Tested only for sibilance/ harsh highs.
I wanted to narrow down what i'm looking for so i only focused on what was destroying everything good about the d7k- it's nasty, sharp, agressive highs.
 
- Source did not change one bit.
Same equipment, same cables, same power supply same everything. I had both the fiio setup i described in blue at the start of this post and my samsung galaxy s voodoo enabled mp3 player. In them two months of burn in i literally exclusively used the samsung- that's how good it pairs with the k550.
 
- Measured against specifically the d2k.
I never listend to these in this perios except for comparing them to the d7k. My d2k's have had a lot of pink noise through them before. k550 i was using here and the ed8 at my other home, so these two were largely exempt from acting as a reference point.
 
- performed a thorough test with a select few sibilant prone tracks.
20 hours of pain. It's a lot easier to remember what pain/thumps/scratches feels like than say soundstage width!
 
- NO PAD BURN IN.
Never used the d7k pads for more than the induction period at the beginning.  
 
-there's a lot more, but it's boring you i hope by now. It's took me too long to write this post so i wanna hurry up..
 
  Testing
Very briefly:
0 hour testing 
I estimated the d7k's to be at least 3 times more sharper in the highs than the d2k's. Very sibilant, tinny thin, unbalanced and scratch were the d7k's up top. But the d2k's were surprisingly relaxed compared to these. In no instance did i find this not to be the case. Oh and remember the d2k's are more sharper than the k550 now so that was saying something.
 
500 hour testing:
With the same tracks i listened to the d2k. Yep, nice. I remember what the d7k should sound like in comparison. A lot lot sharper. Basically, like an improved version of the awful dt770 pro 80's highs. My listening corrected my assumption. No burn in here.
 
1800 hour testing
Again, I listened to the d2k's. Of course no surprise. My ear's haven't changed at all. 
Pick up the d7k.
 
Plug them in and listened to them.
 
Took them off my head. Yea, they look like the d7k. Smell like them as well.
 
Put them back on.
 
And literally peed my pants. This experience shook me. Their high range was not 300% more sharper and attacking than the d2k's. Not even 200%. Around 150%. It was simply beautiful. The extension up here is amazing. All i was hearing before at low and high volumes was the uneven bump and spike at the top which is now DEAD. Definitely gone and gone for good.
 
 
 mini conclusion
Of course, another way to measure if burn in exists is to at the 2000hr point pay up for another d7k and test it. Something like this wouldn't convince me any more though. I mean, how much effort do companies make in ensuring these headphones are tuned with precise congrunece between one another. 
 
I'll probably clean this burn in review up and post it in the denon thread. See what they make of it. But why i'm talking about it here is very simple. Oh boy, burn in exists. I burnt in the k550's for 100hours before i started to listen to them. The've easily clocked 3000 hours in the 6 months i've had them for, but i never looked out for the possibility of burn in. All that i can say is comparing them now to a d2k, even after listening to the d2k exclusively for 2 days, the akg k550 murders it in sq in my opinion, much more so than i thought 6 months ago. I haven't touched the k550 in a week as of the d7k, so it's not like i'm too used to its sound per say. If anything is at play it's burn in of the headphone or burn in of the pads. Either or both, i'm not sure. 
 
 
Anyway, that's that from me.
 
I wanna go back to living under a rock now.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

I searched his profile as well. Using google, these all seem to be tubes/hybrids. I hope i'm wrong in saying that you haven't used a bogstandard desktop solid state amp. Otherwise, seriosly man. I don't know what to say really. From now on i don't give a monkeys about the post count of a headfier or how respected they are on here; i'm looking first at their source. Move on from there.

 
May I please inquire as to where I can find a source that will fix reflection from the back of cups?