AKG K3003 High End 3 Way System Headphone

[goodvibes]

The GR07 doesn't have the res of my Grado GR10s, the W4 I auditioned or even an Etymotic HF5 and Phonak pfe112. It does other things better than some/all of these and is an overall vg device and value. It has good dynamics range overall but doesn't get quiet enough to have superior contrast. I know you want them to be perfect but I can find faults with all the other phones I mentioned here as well. The sibilance, lack of apparent top end extension/refinement and low level detail are the GR07s weaker points though none severe. Like the DB2/B2, any IEM that gets dedicated tip threads has some issues.

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

It doesn't have the res of my Grado GR10s, the W4 I auditioned or even an Etymotic HF5 and Phonak pfe112. It does other things better than some/all of these and is an overall vg device and value. It has good dynamics range overall but doesn't get quiet enough to have superior contrast. I know you want them to be perfect but I can find faults with all the other phones I mentioned here as well. The sibilance, lack of top end extension/refinement and low level detail are the GR07s weaker points though none severe. Like the DB2/B2, any IEM that gets dedicated tip threads has some issues.

 
I actually agree with all the highlighted points, except for the detail. My pair had about the same detail as the fi-ba-ss when A/B'ing.
 
The objection I have is that the phones you listed are no better at tonality, timbre, and realism. I haven't heard the GR10 or 112, but the same applies to them from what I've read. The only phones that I'd call "better" than the GR07 are a well-eq'ed ASG-1.2, and the TG334.

 

[goodvibes]

It will depend on how important low level detail and refinement is to an individual. Generally as you go HiEnd it's a great big deal and why it can't be a giant killer while still being a great IEM and value.

 

[Inks]

GR07 is much better than GR10, only thing GR10 does better is lower mid detail and imaging. GR07 has solid treble extension with the right tips, certainly way better extension than the GR10

W4 is certainly better than the GR07 though, you just need the right tips and set-up. In stock form the W4 is merely slightly better, but can be taken to another level.

 

[jonstatt]

Quote:

You're not the only one to feels that way about coherency Swedem. For some it'ss an issue for others it is not. You can't convince everyone of your feelings. In the end it is your opinion and you have the right to it. I happen to agree with you regarding coherency. Still I was close to pulling the trigger on them at one point but found a better IEM (IMO) before that happened. While the coherency was an issue for me I still like the AKG3003 for what it is. I'm just not so sure about the JVC comments lol. I don't even think the FX700s (their flagship IEM) is comparable to the AKG3003.

 
I think the term coherency is being overloaded here.
 
First of all, if we consider loud speakers that are multi-way, some with many crossovers, such as the Kef Reference 4.2s. There are obviously going to be tonal, speed and textural variations across the frequency range firstly because they use different cone materials at the different frequencies, that some of the speaker cones are internal (pointing up and down the cabinet instead of out), and of course the different technology in the voice coils which changes their speed and response etc. But we don't normally tend to focus on coherency in that one frequency is thicker, or thinner, or more detailed. While the use of the word coherency linguistically is not wrong here, it is not normally what we are discussing when talking about Hi-Fi. Of course we often talk about bass frequencies lacking texture or high frequencies lacking detail, but we don't tend to use coherency in the same sentence.
 
Instead coherency in Hi-Fi normally focuses on the specific range of frequencies where one speaker crosses over with another and so therefore sound of the same frequency is coming out of at least TWO speakers at the same time. It is in that narrow band that coherency issues can be truly heard. In the case of a the low and mid drivers on the AKG3003, some have managed to tune into the variance in behavior at the band of frequencies that overlap. If you do tune into that you are going to be in trouble..much like the analogy I gave earlier in this thread with single chip DLP projectors that have a colour wheel, and you can see a rainbow effect in the corner of your eye.
 
In terms of earlier evaluations that suggest the treble and mid is somehow recessed is strikingly curious to me. If anything I find the treble slightly forward. I also saw Audeze LCD-3s being mentioned and as I own both I can honestly say the AKG3003 is forward to the point of the Sennheiser HD800, and certainly not recessed. So I am puzzled by that observation. Certainly one can tune into the coherency issues as mentione dpreviously and these headphones would not be for them. But I would describe the overall balance of the AKG K3003s as "towards" flat, detailed and articulate. The bass is slightly pushed but very slight. The mids and trebles are detailed and refined. At the critical end I would say the treble is slightly too strong and could take a leaf out of Audeze's book.
 
Audeze produces polarized listeners..like these earphones you either love or hate their approach to treble. But what I am truly bemused about is the variance in perceptive analysis on these IEMs. It is so strikingly varied that I wonder if there is actually a huge variance between samples!

 

[dleblanc343]

Quote:

 
I actually agree with all the highlighted points, except for the detail. My pair had about the same detail as the fi-ba-ss when A/B'ing.
 
The objection I have is that the phones you listed are no better at tonality, timbre, and realism. I haven't heard the GR10 or 112, but the same applies to them from what I've read. The only phones that I'd call "better" than the GR07 are a well-eq'ed ASG-1.2, and the TG334.

You should consider yourself lucky eke if you don't hear the difference in resolution between the GR07 and other higher end iem's; that means you have hearing loss and it's not worth getting high end iem's in that case. You're saving yourself a whole lot of money. I haven't touched my GR07's since early 2012, ever since I got the RE272's. And after hearing a few good customs, the k3003, the 1+2, the ie800, and the TG!334, I cannot compare the GR07 to them in any way (except the fantastic nozzle design and tip selection).

 

[lee730]

Are the RE272 really better than the GR07? I heard the 262 and was not impressed at all....
 

 

[dleblanc343]

Quote:

Are the RE272 really better than the GR07? I heard the 262 and was not impressed at all....
 

I sell both the RE272 and RE262 where I work at so I've listened to both extensively. I wasn't impressed with the 262 at all either. I don't know why people say they sound so alike.. The RE272's don't have the same signature as the 262 or the GR07 at all, they're more forward sounding and neutral whereas the GR07 is laid-back natural sounding and the RE262 is mid-forward and not very pleasant for me (mids stand out too much).

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

You should consider yourself lucky eke if you don't hear the difference in resolution between the GR07 and other higher end iem's; that means you have hearing loss and it's not worth getting high end iem's in that case. You're saving yourself a whole lot of money. I haven't touched my GR07's since early 2012, ever since I got the RE272's. And after hearing a few good customs, the k3003, the 1+2, the ie800, and the TG!334, I cannot compare the GR07 to them in any way (except the fantastic nozzle design and tip selection).

 

 
 
Or perhaps you need to stop letting how light your wallet feels after each purchase dictate the sound that your brain perceives 

 
And here I thought Canadians were a polite bunch 

 
I have the IE800 RIGHT HERE in front of me, and I can assure you that it's not that much better than the GR07. It is better though, and the mids are otherworldly.
 
I'll just quote what an owner of the IE800, GR07, and a few other TOTL iems had to say:
 
 
 

Like I told you earlier, I don't consider any IEMs I've heard "miles ahead" of the GR07, not even the likes of IE800, 334, K3003 or UERM. If you listen closely enough, you can find weaknesses on all of them. I can recommend the GR07 to friends and fellow members without having second thoughts, that's saying something. Doesn't mean they're perfect (nothing is , but I could live with their weaker aspects if they were my only phones. Compared to the IHXs, mids are dryer and highs less smooth, but bass is more linear and detail maybe slightly better on the GR07. Overall I find the IHX a tad less accurate but more engaging than the Vsonics, but that's pretty much personal preference.
 
In the grand scheme of things, I believe differences are frequently blown out of proportion on Head-Fi, but that's probably because I try to contain my OCD tendency, not nurture it.
 

 

[DMinor]

This is a typical "he said she said" case. Who is telling the truth, hum?

 

[tumburu]

@ eke2k6
 
Dude, it's a k3003 thread. I'm sorry I mentioned the GR07 as a mere example of what judiciously equing can do. If you really need to prove GR07 is the end of all please do that in a more adequate thread.
 
@ joanstatt
 
"I think the term coherency is being overloaded here."
 
 I couldn't agree more. It's surprising how easy people take "predigested" information from some kind of audiophile mimicry.

 

[dleblanc343]

Or perhaps you need to stop letting how light your wallet feels after each purchase dictate the sound that your brain perceives 

And here I thought Canadians were a polite bunch 

I have the IE800 RIGHT HERE in front of me, and I can assure you that it's not that much better than the GR07. It is better though, and the mids are otherworldly.

Sorry I offended you, didn't mean to address that like an attack, but there's a big truth behind that. I had been planning to post a thread on an ear cleaning technique which is especially useful for iem listeners as almost everyone has ear wax lodged far down that isn't physically removable. As for my wallet, I don't have a huge budget at all, I'm just a student. But I work in a hi-fi shop and benefit from great pricing. For what I payed my k3003 and my upcoming IE800, it's definitely worth it vs the GR07 I got online.

If you enjoy the GR07 a lot in comparison to expensive products, more power to you. That's all I really meant to say previously.

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

Sorry I offended you, didn't mean to address that like an attack, but there's a big truth behind that. I had been planning to post a thread on an ear cleaning technique which is especially useful for iem listeners as almost everyone has ear wax lodged far down that isn't physically removable. As for my wallet, I don't have a huge budget at all, I'm just a student. But I work in a hi-fi shop and benefit from great pricing. For what I payed my k3003 and my upcoming IE800, it's definitely worth it vs the GR07 I got online.

If you enjoy the GR07 a lot in comparison to expensive products, more power to you. That's all I really meant to say previously.

 
No worries, but I clean my ears monthly with hydrogen peroxide.
 
Again, you phrase it as if I'm saying the monoprice iem was just as good as the k3003. I've listened to TG334, FAD SS, IE800, among others. The point I'm trying to make is that these uber-iems are prime examples of the laws of diminishing returns. Sure, they may do some things better, but they also have flaws that "lesser" iems do not. This is not just vs the GR07. The FX700 (among many others) is among the iems that I say compete with the $1K tier iems. Heck, there are sub-$200 iems that hold their own vs these iems.
 
I just dislike the idea that $ = sound quality.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
@ joanstatt
 
"I think the term coherency is being overloaded here."
 
 I couldn't agree more. It's surprising how easy people take "predigested" information from some kind of audiophile mimicry.

 
So true... but, unfortunately, not that surprising when you see that happen time and time again — all that parroting, people taking someone else's criticisms of a piece of gear and attempting to make them their own in order to appear credible, often just in order to make the case for the piece of gear they themselves like a lot or, worse even, to use said criticisms for a product they themselves want to promote.

 

[dleblanc343]

Well, I can agree to a certain extent, but not quite as much as you. For example, the RE400 is nearly as good as the GR07... Now that's 100$! When I go from the re400/gr07 to the ie800's i'm left severely underwhelmed, but they still remain some of the best iem's >300$

And lol, my post is going to be about using hydrogen peroxide for those who don't know