Airpods pro
Jan 5, 2020 at 7:45 PM Post #361 of 527
Pffft!

So that's a no to hi-res then? :beyersmile:

"Designed as a successor to the MP3, AAC files come in a similar range of quality options. Even the Bluetooth version of the codec is highly flexible, as we'll see in a moment. The AAC audio format supports audio quality up to 24-bit 96kHz, but in the Bluetooth space we are limited slightly below CD quality at best."

LDAC & APTX HD = better but Apple and Bose dont do them yet. Not cool.

they cannot be heard by human ear so no need to have them. We do not care for hi res. We have AAC and it’s more than enough. Do a blind, volume matched test and you will find out like many other so called audiophiles that you are not able to hear it as well. It’s just your psychological need that makes you want the best even if you don’t really need it or being able to discern it blindly! This topic has been discussed a lot and I believe it’s proven that for a normal human ear AAC is more than enough for a high quality audio reproduction. But once in a while, some of you, the hi res salesmen/trolls, jump into discussions and topics which do not concern you, by any means, trying to sell your “goods”. Well, we do not care for your “hi res”, you can keep it for yourself! We love AirPods pro with Apple Music! Let Jay enjoy his tidal by himself!!
 
Jan 5, 2020 at 10:47 PM Post #362 of 527
I’ve realized I’ll enjoy versatile Bluetooth headphones more than I’ll enjoy hi-fi wired headphones plugged into a lossless source. Music sounds better when it can be brought anywhere rather than chained to a desk where we’re obsessing over every detail of the setup.
And this right here sir is why I gave away every totl iem and headphone/speaker I owned a few years back.

The best musical moments of my life involved some of the absolute (technically speaking) worst drivers/bluetooth portables/stock vehicle stereo type environments where nothing made anything sound better except the music itself.
I do however miss being able to pop in and listen to “high end audio” every once and a ..I miss it so greatly much if I’m honest lmao. But man I just had to say I really liked what you wrote. I truly get it and it’s the reason I refused empire ears making customs for me because I couldn’t let others listen to what’s got me smiling ear to ear if only I could wear them!
 
Jan 5, 2020 at 11:09 PM Post #363 of 527
And this right here sir is why I gave away every totl iem and headphone/speaker I owned a few years back.

The best musical moments of my life involved some of the absolute (technically speaking) worst drivers/bluetooth portables/stock vehicle stereo type environments where nothing made anything sound better except the music itself.
I do however miss being able to pop in and listen to “high end audio” every once and a ..I miss it so greatly much if I’m honest lmao. But man I just had to say I really liked what you wrote. I truly get it and it’s the reason I refused empire ears making customs for me because I couldn’t let others listen to what’s got me smiling ear to ear if only I could wear them!

I definitely share in that sentiment. I enjoy music most when I'm cruising around in my car (even listening to SiriusXM) or during a workout when I'm listening on AirPods, or Beats, or really any pair of IEM's I have laying around. I can hear the difference of a lossless source plugged into my computer with quality headphones, but a majority of the time I don't enjoy sitting back and passively listening to music at my desk anymore. It just feels hollow and empty to me compared to the other times/places I could be enjoying it.

Of the times I can recollect when music has made me feel my best, it wasn't when I was alone at my desk listening for every minute detail and timbre in a song. It was when I was enjoying it out in the world. Lossless and high-end headphones have their place, but I'd rather have that quality in a convenient pair of Bluetooth headphones or a high-fidelity car audio system.
they cannot be heard by human ear so no need to have them. We do not care for hi res. We have AAC and it’s more than enough. Do a blind, volume matched test and you will find out like many other so called audiophiles that you are not able to hear it as well. It’s just your psychological need that makes you want the best even if you don’t really need it or being able to discern it blindly! This topic has been discussed a lot and I believe it’s proven that for a normal human ear AAC is more than enough for a high quality audio reproduction. But once in a while, some of you, the hi res salesmen/trolls, jump into discussions and topics which do not concern you, by any means, trying to sell your “goods”. Well, we do not care for your “hi res”, you can keep it for yourself! We love AirPods pro with Apple Music! Let Jay enjoy his tidal by himself!!

According to this, 256kbps AAC only begins to roll off the frequencies above 14Hz on an iPhone. So it should be virtually transparent compared to a lossless source up until that point, which is just the upper treble and isn't essential to the rest of the song. In fact, it becomes fatiguing when boosted (like it is on many audiophile headphones to add "air") so the roll-off is perfectly reasonable.

https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/
[merged]
 
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Jan 5, 2020 at 11:22 PM Post #364 of 527
From that article

"AAC doesn't reach frequencies high enough to match CD quality orstandard Bluetooth's SBC in any instance. That's concerning for anyone who prizes audio quality over convenience."
 
Jan 5, 2020 at 11:24 PM Post #365 of 527
From that article

"AAC doesn't reach frequencies high enough to match CD quality orstandard Bluetooth's SBC in any instance. That's concerning for anyone who prizes audio quality over convenience."

The crucial piece of information to remember about that statement is that it's only referring to the high frequencies above 14Hz. It has no roll-off in the bass or mid-range, so that will only affect the upper treble which when boosted leads to a more fatiguing sound anyway.

"The bulk of what you hear appears well below 10kHz. Human hearing is also limited to somewhere between 10kHz to 20kHz depending on age, so bear that in mind on the following graphs."
 
Jan 5, 2020 at 11:35 PM Post #366 of 527
The last few posts always reminds me of this article I read some years back and which I’ve copied here in its entirety. I listen to my TWS more often than my 4-digit custom IEMs or 5-digit desktops systems. The article then ...

The Clock Radio Rule


When I was just barely a teen, about 13 years old, I had this precise GE Alarm Clock/Radio. AM/FM plus a little dial on the left to set the time that your alarm would go off and shock you out of a deep slumber. It was my “Hi Fi” until I was 14 – when my folks bought me a Sony all-in-one receiver (with record player, cassette, and speakers). I would listen to that clock radio every night. Stealing a cigarette or two from either one of my parents and grabbing a “Stroh’s” beer can from my beer-can collection for an ashtray, I’d listen to WSHE (“She’s ONLY Rock and Roll”) and K-102 (WCKO – “South Florida’s Hottest Rock”) and I’d blow smoke out of my bedroom window and think about my latest crush or flip through Creem magazine.

South Florida in the late 1970’s was in a strange population transition, moving from a mostly “native” Floridian (not aboriginal, mind you) to mostly imports from the north. My family were emigres from NY, but we had arrived in 1972 – not long after Ponce de León, it seems – and so we got to watch the transition happen as more and more people from above the Mason Dixon line and (very) East of the Mississippi filtered into the little Westinghgouse-built community called Coral Springs. By the time I was ashing into Stroh’s cans, Coral Springs was more or less a carbon copy of the environment my parents left behind: all Italians and Jews from NY, NJ, and PA – with a smattering from CT. We fell into the former ethnic category, though it’s hardly as if our communities were segregated. In fact, it was at about the period I’m referencing that all of the bar and bat mitzvahs were happening – my social calendar runneth over.

It was also a very cool time for radio. Led Zeppelin, Lynrd Skynrd and/or Rossington-Collins, Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band, Linda Ronstadt, Rolling Stones, Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers, Blondie, Pink Floyd, Pat Benatar, ZZ Top, Van Halen, Rush, Queen, J. Geils band, .38 Special, AC/DC, Heart, The Kinks, Cheap Trick, B-52’s, Steely Dan, Aerosmith, The Pretenders, Devo, Fleetwood Mac, Talking Heads, Molly Hatchet … etc. Just like the immigration of families like mine from the north to the South, non-Southern Rock was starting to overtake the airwaves. Come 1982, South Florida radio would be in the grips of “New Wave” and my record collection would change in response.

The radio was my musical beacon, and because of that horrid little box I fell in love with bands and artists and lots and lots of music. I didn’t require tens of thousands of dollars of stereo kit to make music listenable, nor did anyone I know think in those terms. We just listened to the radio, and we bought records based on what they were playing over the airwaves.

Not much has really changed in my world as far as that goes, to be frank. Instead of a clock radio I now have one of those little Bluetooth boxes in my workshop and I’ve got Pandora. I stream Pandora through the box and let the service do the DJ work for me. It’s a cool service, and I’ve bought many a record based on tunes that I’ve heard come over the squacky little box. And it’s infinitely more satisfying to hear that music over the “big rig” than over the little black box, but that doesn’t mean I’m not jammin’ to tunes while I work and loving every minute of it. I’m tuned to a “station” based on Joe Pass and Django Reinhardt right now since I’ve taken up guitar again and want to hear a lot of great guitar playing … and I catch myself softly scatting improvised melodies over the chord changes as I’m doing my work. That’s a pretty cool connection to the music, and it’s why I thought of The Clock Radio Rule recently and decided to put it down here:

If you can’t listen to your music over a clock radio (or some such other very-not-Hi-Fi device) then you probably don’t even like the music – you probably got it to show off your stereo. Get rid of it and find music that you actually connect with.

Simple, but effective. If you need a super-tricked-out stereo rig to make your music listenable, then you’re probably not interested in music – you’re interested in the performance of your stereo and the tricks it plays on your ears (soundstaging, imaging, dynamic, PRAT, impact, liquidity, blah blah blah), and you’re buying music to show off the tricks. This leads to Audiophile Nervosa: a neurotic condition that focuses on gear performance over music, and compels you into an endless spiral of upgrade-fever until you eventually wind up exhausted, out of money, and still jealous of someone else’s rig.

The cure is The Clock Radio Rule.

Reconnect to the music and you’ll find out that the gear you’ve already got is pretty awesome already – and putting another $10k into your cabling system isn’t going to make your Sheffield Labs collection any more palatable. But putting another $10k into your record collection will make your stereo (and your life) WAY more enjoyable. Haunt some record stores, spend an hour or two a week flipping through the crates and bins, talk to the shop owner and the other folks in the store – they’ll turn you on to new music to get excited about.
 
Jan 5, 2020 at 11:37 PM Post #367 of 527
I like music.
The crucial piece of information to remember about that statement is that it's only referring to the high frequencies above 14Hz. It has no roll-off in the bass or mid-range, so that will only affect the upper treble which when boosted leads to a more fatiguing sound anyway.

Who said anything about "boosted"? hi res is about reproduction.
[merged]
 
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Jan 6, 2020 at 12:09 PM Post #368 of 527
Who said anything about "boosted"? hi res is about reproduction.
[merged]

A lot of “hi-fi” headphones boost the upper treble so that they can be perceived as high fidelity. Meanwhile it’s possible to listen louder for longer when it’s veiled/rolled-off. Most people (other than audiophiles) don’t care about that extra “air.” I just want tight bass with a clean, clear mid-range and some brightness to the lower treble.
 
Jan 6, 2020 at 5:22 PM Post #369 of 527
Does any of Tidal's 96k 24 bit Hi-Res quality get past Apples out of date "best effort" AAC Bluetooth codec?

Is it reproduced as 44.1k 24 bit?

Or 44.1k 16 bit?

Or

Worse?

I am trying to advise an Airpod Pro owner if Tidal is worth using over Spotify.
No. That’s regardless of whether AAC works for not. No point paying $20/month if you are not doing critical listening.
 
Jan 6, 2020 at 6:27 PM Post #370 of 527
The last few posts always reminds me of this article I read some years back and which I’ve copied here in its entirety. I listen to my TWS more often than my 4-digit custom IEMs or 5-digit desktops systems. The article then ...

The Clock Radio Rule


When I was just barely a teen, about 13 years old, I had this precise GE Alarm Clock/Radio. AM/FM plus a little dial on the left to set the time that your alarm would go off and shock you out of a deep slumber. It was my “Hi Fi” until I was 14 – when my folks bought me a Sony all-in-one receiver (with record player, cassette, and speakers). I would listen to that clock radio every night. Stealing a cigarette or two from either one of my parents and grabbing a “Stroh’s” beer can from my beer-can collection for an ashtray, I’d listen to WSHE (“She’s ONLY Rock and Roll”) and K-102 (WCKO – “South Florida’s Hottest Rock”) and I’d blow smoke out of my bedroom window and think about my latest crush or flip through Creem magazine.

South Florida in the late 1970’s was in a strange population transition, moving from a mostly “native” Floridian (not aboriginal, mind you) to mostly imports from the north. My family were emigres from NY, but we had arrived in 1972 – not long after Ponce de León, it seems – and so we got to watch the transition happen as more and more people from above the Mason Dixon line and (very) East of the Mississippi filtered into the little Westinghgouse-built community called Coral Springs. By the time I was ashing into Stroh’s cans, Coral Springs was more or less a carbon copy of the environment my parents left behind: all Italians and Jews from NY, NJ, and PA – with a smattering from CT. We fell into the former ethnic category, though it’s hardly as if our communities were segregated. In fact, it was at about the period I’m referencing that all of the bar and bat mitzvahs were happening – my social calendar runneth over.

It was also a very cool time for radio. Led Zeppelin, Lynrd Skynrd and/or Rossington-Collins, Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band, Linda Ronstadt, Rolling Stones, Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers, Blondie, Pink Floyd, Pat Benatar, ZZ Top, Van Halen, Rush, Queen, J. Geils band, .38 Special, AC/DC, Heart, The Kinks, Cheap Trick, B-52’s, Steely Dan, Aerosmith, The Pretenders, Devo, Fleetwood Mac, Talking Heads, Molly Hatchet … etc. Just like the immigration of families like mine from the north to the South, non-Southern Rock was starting to overtake the airwaves. Come 1982, South Florida radio would be in the grips of “New Wave” and my record collection would change in response.

The radio was my musical beacon, and because of that horrid little box I fell in love with bands and artists and lots and lots of music. I didn’t require tens of thousands of dollars of stereo kit to make music listenable, nor did anyone I know think in those terms. We just listened to the radio, and we bought records based on what they were playing over the airwaves.

Not much has really changed in my world as far as that goes, to be frank. Instead of a clock radio I now have one of those little Bluetooth boxes in my workshop and I’ve got Pandora. I stream Pandora through the box and let the service do the DJ work for me. It’s a cool service, and I’ve bought many a record based on tunes that I’ve heard come over the squacky little box. And it’s infinitely more satisfying to hear that music over the “big rig” than over the little black box, but that doesn’t mean I’m not jammin’ to tunes while I work and loving every minute of it. I’m tuned to a “station” based on Joe Pass and Django Reinhardt right now since I’ve taken up guitar again and want to hear a lot of great guitar playing … and I catch myself softly scatting improvised melodies over the chord changes as I’m doing my work. That’s a pretty cool connection to the music, and it’s why I thought of The Clock Radio Rule recently and decided to put it down here:

If you can’t listen to your music over a clock radio (or some such other very-not-Hi-Fi device) then you probably don’t even like the music – you probably got it to show off your stereo. Get rid of it and find music that you actually connect with.

Simple, but effective. If you need a super-tricked-out stereo rig to make your music listenable, then you’re probably not interested in music – you’re interested in the performance of your stereo and the tricks it plays on your ears (soundstaging, imaging, dynamic, PRAT, impact, liquidity, blah blah blah), and you’re buying music to show off the tricks. This leads to Audiophile Nervosa: a neurotic condition that focuses on gear performance over music, and compels you into an endless spiral of upgrade-fever until you eventually wind up exhausted, out of money, and still jealous of someone else’s rig.

The cure is The Clock Radio Rule.

Reconnect to the music and you’ll find out that the gear you’ve already got is pretty awesome already – and putting another $10k into your cabling system isn’t going to make your Sheffield Labs collection any more palatable. But putting another $10k into your record collection will make your stereo (and your life) WAY more enjoyable. Haunt some record stores, spend an hour or two a week flipping through the crates and bins, talk to the shop owner and the other folks in the store – they’ll turn you on to new music to get excited about.

I grew up and still live in Palm Beach County-- I remember WSHE well.
 
Jan 9, 2020 at 5:39 AM Post #371 of 527
What are the biggest improvements over the regular AirPods?

I'm using AhaStyle ear hooks for running. However, I hate to remove it every time to get the AirPods in/out of the case and put the hooks back on. Also, the hooks won't survive all these adjustments.

I've read some expressions in this thread. However, my expectations from AirPods Pro would be to hold during sport activities, don't sound worse than the regular AirPods and provide better noise isolation (without ANC) btw, with ANC on, are they wearable in the underground and such? I know people wear both but you hear the song the song they're listening to staying like 2m near them.
 
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Jan 9, 2020 at 9:29 AM Post #372 of 527
The single most noticeable improvement for me has been the fit. I can't wear the standard AirPods, but thanks to the tips on the AirPods Pro I can actually use these. They stay in my ears comfortably whether I'm walking around the grocer, running, lifting weights, whatever really. The APP quickly became an everyday carry for me.
 
Jan 9, 2020 at 3:31 PM Post #373 of 527
The single most noticeable improvement for me has been the fit. I can't wear the standard AirPods, but thanks to the tips on the AirPods Pro I can actually use these. They stay in my ears comfortably whether I'm walking around the grocer, running, lifting weights, whatever really. The APP quickly became an everyday carry for me.
Just what I wanted to hear! :)

Honestly, I didn't have any other expenctations that would differ the AirPods from AirPods Pro. For the bass, the hooks I'm using, boost the lows quite significantly, to my surprise.
 
Jan 10, 2020 at 9:47 AM Post #374 of 527
I have ordered the airpod pro for an easier solution to the powerbeats pro which were an improvement from the fiio fh1 and btr1k combination.

If the airpod pro can even match the powerbeat pro' sound signature, the better ease of use will fulfill my needs.

The learning curve for the powerbeats pro ear tip size choice made me more aware of the relationship between stem depth and ear tip choice. I wound up using a large ear tip on the powerbeat pro.

My serious music listening is with fiio q5 and fh7 or sony mdr 1am2; the use of airpod pro and powerbats pro will be for convenience in audio books and other spoken word primarily.
This means taking off the left earphone for 5 minutes and then the right earphone for 5 minutes ... and repeating the process every single hour until then end of the flight (to keep them running once the initial 4 hours are used-up). Not very practical/enjoyable on long a flight (wearing only one would defeat the purpose of noise cancelling).
My airpod pro arrive today but I have been using powerbeat pro all night long. Being partially disabled I have found four hours of listening to spoken word or even music content a hour break is welcomed.

Upon returning to listening, both myself and the batteries are refreshed. :)
Powerbeats Pro vs AirPods Pro? I’ve heard they sound similar (Powerbeats Pro may sound slightly better) but I don’t want to have to buy both of them to find out. Powerbeats have the advantage of having double the battery life and no ANC (which is a plus to me) while AirPods Pro have a smaller case and probably a more comfortable fit.

I’m ready to upgrade my AirPods. I’ve come to the realization they sound fine, but my perception of the sound quality was biased by the convenience. They’re lacking soundstage and no particular frequency is great. I was looking at the Momentum Truly Wireless, but I’ll sacrifice a little bit of sound quality for better connectivity.

I may try the Powerbeats Pro first, and return them if I’m unhappy. Admittedly I don’t really like IEM’s but I’ve heard they sit outside the ear canal almost like AirPods. BeatsX sounded fatiguing to me (which isn’t uncommon for me with IEM’s as I don’t find them super comfortable, but the treble was a little too much), and I found the AirPods to be much better for runs. Hopefully Powerbeats Pro makes up for its shortcomings.

I’m also looking at V-MODA Crossfade Wireless 2 Codec or Beats Solo Pro to replace my AirPods/Solo3, but I’m not sure either will be a direct replacement for truly wireless.
I will have both the airpod pro and powerbeat pro and will consider myself a wealthy person. :)
[merged]
 
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Jan 10, 2020 at 10:39 AM Post #375 of 527
I have ordered the airpod pro for an easier solution to the powerbeats pro which were an improvement from the fiio fh1 and btr1k combination.

If the airpod pro can even match the powerbeat pro' sound signature, the better ease of use will be fulfill my needs.

The learning curve for the powerbeats pro ear tip size choice made me more aware of the relationship between stem depth and ear tip choice. I wound up using a large ear tip on the powerbeat pro.

My serious music listening is with fiio q5 and fh7 or sony mdr 1am2; the use of airpod pro and powerbats pro will be for convenience in audio books and other spoken word primarily.
My primary IEM was CA audio LyraII. APP are not going to be as good as a wired IEM. But in my humble opinion, they surprised me at the overall sound signature. Many report the Powerbeats pro has better bass but APP is good and the mods/highs are better

I do use some EQ to make a little better in Spotify. The comfort, convenience and ANC make the
APP the only IEM in use now. They work great with my iPhone.

I was surprised how much I liked them. I bought pairs for my son and gf
 

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