[MayaTlab]

I don't find them particularly "veiled", just inaccurate and uneven past 3kHz or so when measured on my own head, relative to an ideal, personalised target, like most headphones anyway : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/akg-k361-k371.916764/post-16443548
Which will invariably create some form of masking (I'd say the same even about my ex pair of HD800).
Among over-ears ANC headphones, they still remain by quite a long shot my favourite (I wouldn't need to change their response much below 3kHz or so).

I don't really EQ my APMs because of their use case but at minima I'd elevate the response in the 3.5-4.5kHz area and lower it in the 6-10kHz one. Since they're fairly stable from seatings to seatings below 5kHz or so if Apple were to provide a way to PEQ the hell out of them and save it on the device I'd definitely spend more time creating a profile for them (but we know that isn't going to happen).

To be honest I find it increasingly difficult to go back to un-EQed headphones these days, regardless of price / class.

 

[tinyman392]

Hey chaps,

I know it's not an APP thread but you guys have been most helpful and responsive so I am asking the question here:

I am encountering annoying break ups playing Apple Music on my APP though my iPhone11Pro with latest IOS (no beta).

At home, in my Wifi-network it can be resolved by pressing pause and play again or skipping tracks.
Just coming from the gym I got really annoyed trying to play some offline playlist and got breakups after playing the list like 5-15 seconds and the song just paused each time - and didn't play further even when pressing pause/play, etc.

It seemed to work after I enabled wifi and 4G in Apple Music app and on the iPhone itself - but that can't be the sense of downloading a playlist for going out or to the gym etc.

Anyone here made some similar experiences and knows a solution?
Btw I enables ATMOS for streaming and downloading songs...

I do know that at times the iPhone won't play my offline music at all and just wait as if its downloading something. I don't know if this is part of Apple's DRM management or something else going on. It seems like I'm not the only one as the problem has been posted on Reddit in the past with the only solution is to restart the iPhone which temporarily fixes the issue.

It is the first time that I realise and would like to share it with you here that the APM's sound is kind of veiled. So I can finally sympathise with and understand people here and elsewhere who do not like their sound signature that much. I have used my APM to listen on one of my music pieces on which I was working lately (mainly recorded on Logic Pro using midi as well as analog sources) and since I know very well all the details and sounds' extensions I am in a position to be an accurate judge. So the APM is presenting a rather dark copy of my piece, which when I hear on monitor speakers, or even on some BA iems like my Shure Aonic 4 (hybrid DD and one BA), is giving me a ton more details in the synths tails, in some drum sounds, voices etc. Some background sounds also are completely mute on the APM. If I was mixing on the APM I would certainly use eq to elevate certain frequencies, which seem absolutely fine and clear on my other speakers, thus leading me to mistakes in the final mix. I think this is the fate of all elevated bass headphones. You cannot find easily a headphone with such a deep a punchy bass to combine with full mids and treble details presentation. It turns out to be a veiled and dark sound, certainly missing out on the details of a music piece. Apart from the sound though, it's a very good headphone, sturdy, comfortable, with high quality materials, having of course also all the benefits of Apple's chips, Spatial audio, perfect ANC etc. But for sound alone, it may not cut it, especially for audiophiles and people who like a resolving presentation as well as a detailed and accurate sound. It was for sure a surprise for me, on my own music, and certainly kind of disappointing since it is not a cheap item, but ok, it certainly has its uses...

Edit: Of course another question would be where does my piece sound better? Well, its dark and veiled copy of the APM is not bad, but it certainly is not accurate. The more balanced/bright speakers present clearly what I made, when the APM presents a more laid back and less fatiguing sound. So, veiled is not bad (for sure goes mellower on the ears), but the problem is with accuracy which is not there.

I definitely agree with all of this with regards to the APM's sound signature. Specifically it needs some of the upper mids/lower treble boosted I can see how someone would consider them veiled sounding as well.

 

[tinyman392]

Even though knock-offs are getting sophisticated (visually)… they still cannot replicate the access to iOS actual settings that require the M1 chip (settings within the AirPods themselves such as enabling spatial audio, button settings for ANC etc).
Since the knock-offs are essentially still seen as a third party Bluetooth device by the iOS.
Makes it easy to differentiate a knock-off vs. the real thing.

Really? I could not imagine! How can it be so? In order to get firmware and Apple's acceptance serial the headphone must include Apple's chips. It seems impossible to add those chips in a knockoff, since only Apple has the knowhow to produce them. And if they are so capable to produce chips, then the product is more of a hybrid, original/knockoff!!

I really haven't used any of the knockoffs. I did read somewhere that the original AP firmware did get encrypted which made it a lot easier for knockoff manufacturers to spoof specific parts of the UI of the AirPods. Specifically the popup screen is the most common that is seen (since it's seen immediately). However, if you jump onto Reddit, a lot of times you'll see people complaining about some peculiar things that don't work properly. Like different settings they set in the settings app don't seem to apply (which means they have a settings pane that allows them to adjust double tap for example). Other times it's X feature not working even though it's enabled in the settings or other places. Every time one of these weird things crop up, the first question that's always asked is where did you buy them from since the software has gotten very good to be able to do a convincing front end with nothing set up on the back end. So the setting for a feature might exist, like Spatial Audio, but the feature wouldn't work.

I'll also add that at times, people have mistaken actual features from an actual AP being fake because they don't remember it was there. Thus calling out something as fake due to this false memory when in fact the setting actually exists.

One thing to keep in mind is that the settings app just runs off of a bunch of plists. So if they figure out how to send these plists to the iPhone for it to appear appropriately, they can get stuff into the settings pane. If they know how the phone and AirPods communicate they could in theory set up their front end to work properly and look proper even if it doesn't function properly.

Regarding firmware updates, I haven't seen anyone say their fake ones have firmware updated, but it is not impossible to see a way of doing this. Specifically, if you know how the iPhone starts and sends the update over, then you could simply just update the plist that has the firmware version in it on the fake device, then restart. Upon restart the iPhone will see the new firmware version and think it's up to date.

 

[mainguy]

It is the first time that I realise and would like to share it with you here that the APM's sound is kind of veiled. So I can finally sympathise with and understand people here and elsewhere who do not like their sound signature that much. I have used my APM to listen on one of my music pieces on which I was working lately (mainly recorded on Logic Pro using midi as well as analog sources) and since I know very well all the details and sounds' extensions I am in a position to be an accurate judge. So the APM is presenting a rather dark copy of my piece, which when I hear on monitor speakers, or even on some BA iems like my Shure Aonic 4 (hybrid DD and one BA), is giving me a ton more details in the synths tails, in some drum sounds, voices etc. Some background sounds also are completely mute on the APM. If I was mixing on the APM I would certainly use eq to elevate certain frequencies, which seem absolutely fine and clear on my other speakers, thus leading me to mistakes in the final mix. I think this is the fate of all elevated bass headphones. You cannot find easily a headphone with such a deep a punchy bass to combine with full mids and treble details presentation. It turns out to be a veiled and dark sound, certainly missing out on the details of a music piece. Apart from the sound though, it's a very good headphone, sturdy, comfortable, with high quality materials, having of course also all the benefits of Apple's chips, Spatial audio, perfect ANC etc. But for sound alone, it may not cut it, especially for audiophiles and people who like a resolving presentation as well as a detailed and accurate sound. It was for sure a surprise for me, on my own music, and certainly kind of disappointing since it is not a cheap item, but ok, it certainly has its uses...

Edit: Of course another question would be where does my piece sound better? Well, its dark and veiled copy of the APM is not bad, but it certainly is not accurate. The more balanced/bright speakers present clearly what I made, when the APM presents a more laid back and less fatiguing sound. So, veiled is not bad (for sure goes mellower on the ears), but the problem is with accuracy which is not there.

Very interesting analysis.

It would be wonderful if you had some other bluetooth headphones on hand to compare the reproduction; as you’ve actually made the piece. Makes all the difference I think, as nobody really knows what the original track is ‘meant’ to sound like with conventional music. At least for the most part, as some people can actually play the instruments in a particular song quite well, and I find their analysis really valuable too, as they can listen to how different headphones reproduce that particular instrument.

To me it’s clear the APM are missing something in the mids. Same with the airpods pro, it literally feels like gaps in the music to me (also encountered it on master & dynamic cans). Wasn’t too surprising to hear this, but I wonder to what extent it happens with other BT headphones. The p7 wireless dont have this issue to my ear, at least not obviously.

 

[SparkOnShore]

Very interesting analysis.

It would be wonderful if you had some other bluetooth headphones on hand to compare the reproduction; as you’ve actually made the piece. Makes all the difference I think, as nobody really knows what the original track is ‘meant’ to sound like with conventional music. At least for the most part, as some people can actually play the instruments in a particular song quite well, and I find their analysis really valuable too, as they can listen to how different headphones reproduce that particular instrument.

To me it’s clear the APM are missing something in the mids. Same with the airpods pro, it literally feels like gaps in the music to me (also encountered it on master & dynamic cans). Wasn’t too surprising to hear this, but I wonder to what extent it happens with other BT headphones. The p7 wireless dont have this issue to my ear, at least not obviously.

I have no other BT headphones right now, apart from the APP and APM. APP is clearer but still missing. I used to own the Senn M3 but I sold them when I bought the APM. Never listened to my mixes on the Senns though. Yes, you are right, there are gaps in my sounds. The best way to put it is that it is tuned to hide the sparkle of sound in order to be friendly to most ears and thus more commercially appealing. I was not expecting it to happen when I decided to listen to my music on the APM and it caught me off guard to be honest since I used to like them on other music that I was not aware of the artists's intention. It is a dark headphone like most bass heavy ones. I have come to the conclusion that as much as I enjoy boosted low frequencies, there is no way to get an accurate sound out of such headphones. Accuracy needs the bass and low mids to be almost neutral so that our brain will focus clearly on the rest spectrum and there will not be any masking which is a common effect of elevated bass. I also think that BT headphones face the additional problem of file compression necessity which does not help at all with sound accuracy and balanced presentation. Seems that still it's only wired if you care about sound.

 

[Soundizer]

I probably wouldn't trust it. Apple Sales might not be able to help, though not a bad idea. I'd contact the seller and ask why they are selling it. If they give you a serial, that can't be 100% trusted either nowadays since fake AP and APP use stolen serial numbers :/ Though I haven't heard of any of that happening with the APM yet.

The Seller replied they are not UK Models. No way am i buying them as no UK Warranty. Also there might be UK Firmware updates which will not be available. So will stick with Apple sales direct at £549

 

[SparkOnShore]

The Seller replied they are not UK Models. No way am i buying them as no UK Warranty. Also there might be UK Firmware updates which will not be available. So will stick with Apple sales direct at £549

I don't think there is UK or French or US firmware on Apple products. I think there is one firmware for the whole world.

 

[Soundizer]

I don't think there is UK or French or US firmware on Apple products. I think there is one firmware for the whole world.

Currently yes, but can change. Certainly there are Country specific firmware for many of current Apple products. Operating System is always the same globally, but not firmware.

 

[SparkOnShore]

Currently yes, but can change. Certainly there are Country specific firmware for many of current Apple products. Operating System is always the same globally, but not firmware.

I've never heard of country specific firmware or software update on any Apple product. Headphones, iPhone, Mac, iPad, TV, it's all getting the same software update globally.

 

[Soundizer]

I've never heard of country specific firmware or software update on any Apple product. Headphones, iPhone, Mac, iPad, TV, it's all getting the same software update globally.

The Operating System is the same and we can see version number easily. However we don’t have visibility of all firmware which can differ because if Country specific features.

 

[SparkOnShore]

The Operating System is the same and we can see version number easily. However we don’t have visibility of all firmware which can differ because if Country specific features.

This is clearly false info. There is no country or region specific update in Apple products, period. Or give us a link of such formal info coming from Apple. The only region specific is App Store, but it has nothing to do with the firmware and software updates of all products. It's one update for all Apple products, without any region specific differentiation.

 

[tinyman392]

This is clearly false info. There is no country or region specific update in Apple products, period. Or give us a link of such formal info coming from Apple. The only region specific is App Store, but it has nothing to do with the firmware and software updates of all products. It's one update for all Apple products, without any region specific differentiation.

There are features that are region specific. Apple Pay is actually region specific if I'm not mistaken. On the Apple Watch some of the health features are also region specific (related to a-fib detection and irregular heart beat). I'm actually not sure how Apple deals with that though (for example disabling features by serial number or location of the device, etc.). It's a question for Apple I guess. Warranty becomes the other issue as that applies to the country of origin.

 

[tinyman392]

The Seller replied they are not UK Models. No way am i buying them as no UK Warranty. Also there might be UK Firmware updates which will not be available. So will stick with Apple sales direct at £549

That's really weird... I wonder where they came from. US models are 550 USD which is about 400 pounds after you do the conversions. I think that's the cheapest you can get them right now. Though some retailers have had them on sale for 450 USD lately, or about 325 pounds. They'd have to buy in bulk to offset shipping costs to sell at 380 pounds at a profit. I guess it's possible.

 

[SparkOnShore]

There are features that are region specific. Apple Pay is actually region specific if I'm not mistaken. On the Apple Watch some of the health features are also region specific (related to a-fib detection and irregular heart beat). I'm actually not sure how Apple deals with that though.

Of course there are features which are region specific, I already have mentioned the example of the App Store. Apple Pay as well is another example. But soundizer is speaking about firmware updates! There is no firmware or software update differentiation according to regions, especially for the APM or APP! Soundizer said that he/she does not buy an APM that he/she found because it is not a UK one and he/she believes it will not get the proper firmware for his/her region, which I believe is far from reality. The Apple Watch for example is not approved by physicians of my region for its ECG and oximeter outcome, but it still offers those features and updates exactly the same as some other country where Apple Watch ECG has gotten approved. To summarise: when Apple sends the update 7.6, it is the exact same for everybody, everywhere in the world.

Edit: There are also countries where Apple Pay does not work. This does not mean that the iPhones of that country do not include or that they do not update Apple Pay. It just means that Apple Pay is not operating there, even though the iPhones of the inhabitants include the code of Apple Pay update as on all rest regions.

 

[tinyman392]

Of course there are features which are region specific, I already have mentioned the example of the App Store. Apple Pay as well is another example. But soundizer is speaking about firmware updates! There is no firmware or software update differentiation according to regions, especially for the APM or APP! Soundizer said that he/she does not buy an APM that he/she found because it is not a UK one and he/she believes it will not get the proper firmware for his/her region, which I believe is far from reality. The Apple Watch for example is not approved by physicians of my region for its ECG and oximeter outcome, but it still offers those features and updates exactly the same as some other country where Apple Watch ECG has gotten approved. To summarise: when Apple sends the update 7.6, it is the exact same for everybody, everywhere in the world.

Edit: There are also countries where Apple Pay does not work. This does not mean that the iPhones of that country do not include or that they do not update Apple Pay. It just means that Apple Pay is not operating there, even though the iPhones of the inhabitants include the code of Apple Pay update as on all rest regions.

What I'm questioning is how Apple determines what features will be enabled on the firmware. If it's based on serial number (IE a UK serial vs US serial) or if it's based on the physical location of the device (this would be a lot weirder to implement since you could in theory have features turning on and off as you travel). The code might be included, but I'm not sure if the features are enabled. Granted the seller is probably sourcing from the US since the APM are a lot cheaper over here than over there so missing features should be less of an issue.

Edit: though it reads like the features still work on your devices even if they aren't officially "supported" for your region.