[angelom]

I would take whatever he says with a large spoon of salt.. He doesn't own the APMs any longer and I believe did not do a A/B test with the P7W when they were in his possession. We've had our differences with him always veering off to extoll his beloved H95s.

Do have a try yourself because your ears will be different from others, and perhaps you would be in the same camp as Angelom or not, who knows?

For me, they are a good complement to my open cans. There is nothing they do wrong tonality wise, and they've done sub-bass VERY VERY well. I agree that Treble could have been better controlled, but then again I also find that their treble is on par if not better than my HD800S which I have to EQ down most of the time... YMMV.

PLEASE STOP your nonsense and continuing APM fanboyism and respect people that don't thinking the APM is the best headphone in the world.

I have the p7w in my possession (for 4 years now, I never selling it because is a great headphone) and I comparing with the APM two times. I am the first person that saying early in this thread that I think the p7w and APM sounding like members of the same family.

I only mentioning the h95 in my last post because I comparing more the h95 with the APM because the h95 is my favourite bt/anc headphone and, like the APM, is a ANC headphone.

And yes, the best everybody can doing is testing the APM or any others headphones for knowing exactly if is good for them BUT this isn't always possible for many people and this is why forums like head-fi can helping making this or that decision.

 

[Gamerlingual]

PLEASE STOP your nonsense and continuing APM fanboyism and respect people that don't thinking the APM is the best headphone in the world.

I have the p7w in my possession (for 4 years now, I never selling it because is a great headphone) and I comparing with the APM two times. I am the first person that saying early in this thread that I think the p7w and APM sounding like members of the same family.

I only mentioning the h95 in my last post because I comparing more the h95 with the APM because the h95 is my favourite bt/anc headphone and, like the APM, is a ANC headphone.

And yes, the best everybody can doing is testing the APM or any others headphones for knowing exactly if is good for them BUT this isn't always possible for many people and this is why forums like head-fi can helping making this or that decision.

I’m on the same boat as you as the reliability issues these cans had. They turned out to be trailer park trash with the battery issues and the condensation. The Drop THX Pandas and my XM3 cans with the custom EQ manage to sound better than the Max cans. The Max sound good, but there are better over ear options and the Amiron and H95 cans can fit into this conversation. I’m happy I got the pandas

 

[tinyman392]

Glad i just got a pair of boxed as new p7ws for 150 instead then lol

That's actually a very good price for those. I couldn't find a pair of new ones when I was searching

 

[tinyman392]

Thanks for your reply. The sound quality of the P7W is great and they even block out a lot of noise even though they do not have noise cancellation. The only issue I have with them is they are uncomfortable on the head after say 40 mins. The clamping is quite strong. Some have said the APM are heavy- are they more comfortable than the P7W?

The APM is a lot more comfortable than the P7W in my eyes despite the weight. Top of the head issues occur on my end after about an hour to an hour of listening with them. The way the headband is designed on the APM it helps loads in this regard by lowering the overall pressure on the head drastically making them very comfortable for long listening sessions. I do have a smaller head so the clamping force on the P7W is non-existent for me while I can feel it with the APM.

Edit: one note I should make regarding the APM is that it runs a lot cooler on the ear than the P7W. Although the P7W runs cooler than the PX, they both do feel warmer on the ear than the APM does. I think I said it a few times in the thread, but if the APM's pads gives no comfort issues, then it's probably as close to having the heat issues that are associated with being open back while retaining a closed-back form factor.

 

[tinyman392]

This is where Apple could innovate and have dramatic impact. Create a codec or other software that truly does elevate bluetooth listening to true hi fi quality. I know this is not a new thought. But with literally every other streaming service jumping on the hi fi bandwagon, Apple fades a bit and becomes less relevant.

I would question how much Apple has to gain from doing something like this. Does the average consumer care about lossless hi-fidelity audio quality that they likely can’t hear the difference of? Granted it’s debated, but a lot on the head-fi forums openly admit that AAC 256 is as transparent as lossless to their ears. Is it worth the investment of Apple to do such a thing for such a niche audience?

 

[tkddans]

I’m on the same boat as you as the reliability issues these cans had. They turned out to be trailer park trash with the battery issues and the condensation. The Drop THX Pandas and my XM3 cans with the custom EQ manage to sound better than the Max cans. The Max sound good, but there are better over ear options and the Amiron and H95 cans can fit into this conversation. I’m happy I got the pandas

It’s interesting how different people feel about the qualities of headphones. I found the APM to be very resolving compared to the Panda. The tuning is extremely spiky in a particular spot up in the treble though, unfortunately. So there is a bit of a sharpness with some music.

But it’s a trade off. It’s so clear and thumpy in the bass in a way I’ve seldom heard elsewhere, and with the high treble comes a great sense of airy ness. It can be very fun, albeit fatiguing on mixes that already have high points in the elevated frequencies of these headphones.

While it isn’t an all arounder for every song in a collection, it was a lot more interesting, intimate and lively, for a lot. It is a fantastic pair of cans to my ear for live recordings especially. Bass guitar, thumps of drums, piano, can sound delightful on them to me.

EDIT:: Holy moly. So many spelling errors before checking this post later haha.

 

[Author]

I would question how much Apple has to gain from doing something like this. Does the average consumer care about lossless hi-fidelity audio quality that they likely can’t hear the difference of? Granted it’s debated, but a lot on the head-fi forums openly admit that AAC 256 is as transparent as lossless to their ears. Is it worth the investment of Apple to do such a thing for such a niche audience?

I totally see your point and I agree the difference is small. But it does change the discussion slightly when every major competitor and smaller companies provide the service.

(I’ve tried Tidal and Qobuz but currently remain in the Apple ecosystem.)

 

[yticolev]

I totally see your point and I agree the difference is small. But it does change the discussion slightly when every major competitor and smaller companies provide the service.

Marketing causes all sorts of ridiculous tech races that are less important than other factors. Think chip mHz ratings (marketing exhausted this factor), camera megapixel count, smartphone screen resolutions and so on. You have to keep up with the Jones's even though it is more about appearance. Having "better" sounding music is obviously an important marketing tool for streaming services. And every time without fail a marketing claim is made, there will be those who state they can tell a difference. Sometimes some can.

 

[tinyman392]

I totally see your point and I agree the difference is small. But it does change the discussion slightly when every major competitor and smaller companies provide the service.

(I’ve tried Tidal and Qobuz but currently remain in the Apple ecosystem.)

Just because someone else does it doesn't mean it needs to be done IMO. Chasing numbers and spec sheets isn't everything at the end of the day. Would it be nice for Apple to do it? Sure... Is it a monetarily viable option for them? To be honest, probably not. The offer of just normal streaming of 256AAC and 128AAC was a relatively low on the cost side of things since they already house all of that music on the iTunes store. The jump from 256AAC to ALAC would mean that they would have to nearly quadruple the server space to house said music. On top of that, they've been pushing BT tech lately as their primary source of audio, so to have their headphones support lossless it would be a huge leap and a huge cost in R&D just to get that working. The latter is likely the main bottleneck for Apple to do such a thing. They've really moved away from wired listening and gone full wireless.

All this said, the only way I could see Apple pushing for a lossless streaming service is if a BT audio codec comes out and supports a full lossless streaming ability which doesn't currently exist. It probably won't for the next 5 years and even then, it'll be a few more years before you see Apple even begin to dabble in it assuming it's remotely cost effective for them to do so. In short, I don't see Apple putting the R&D into something small like this when the market will do it for them.

 

[MikkiT]

I personally believe that while hi res codecs are important (most of my music is on my phone in alac format) it can’t compensate for a poorly engineered recording. I have 2 recent downloads from Apple that are in 256 aac and they sound fantastic. I also have several albums in dsd format stored on a hard drive that are a muddy mess that no external dac can help.

 

[Author]

Marketing causes all sorts of ridiculous tech races that are less important than other factors. Think chip mHz ratings (marketing exhausted this factor), camera megapixel count, smartphone screen resolutions and so on. You have to keep up with the Jones's even though it is more about appearance. Having "better" sounding music is obviously an important marketing tool for streaming services. And every time without fail a marketing claim is made, there will be those who state they can tell a difference. Sometimes some can.

Agree it’s definitely all about the customer and what and how they perceive things. The general audience has become far more conscious of and considers sound quality to be more important than ever. It doesn’t matter if we think what they are listening to is bad sound — that they think it sounds good is what’s important from a marketing perspective. That’s the audience these other services are catering to.

 

[kadamian]

i've been extensively listening to the APM for a week and if i could describe the sound signature with only one word it would be "smooth"!

This "smooth sound" charasteristic eliminates any fatigue from long listening + the pads are uber comfortable and don't heat up with time...

But because of that "smoothness" the APM aren't dramatic when they need to be...

That being said, they shine on any laid back genres (jazz, downtempo, etc) and not so much with rock or any other genre with occasional crescendo moments

 

[Gamerlingual]

It’s interesting how different people feel about the qualities of headphones. I found the APM to be very resolving compared to the Panda. The tuning is extremely spiky in a particular spot up in the treble though, unfortunately. So there is a bit of a sharpness with some music.

But it’s a trade off. It’s so clear and thumpy in the bass in a way I’ve seldom heard elsewhere, and with the high treble comes a great sense of airy ness. It can be very fun, albeit fatiguing on mixes that already have high points in the elevated frequencies of these headphones.

While it isn’t an all arounder for every song in a collection, it was a lot more interesting, intimate and lively, for a lot. It is a fantastic pair of cans to my ear for live recordings especially. Bass guitar, thumps of drums, piano, can sound delightful on them to me.

EDIT:: Holy moly. So many spelling errors before checking this post later haha.

If Apple had a pair I could get without QC problems, I would keep them. I would certain keep them if the issues were resolved

 

[AlwaysForward]

If Apple had a pair I could get without QC problems, I would keep them. I would certain keep them if the issues were resolved

Did you actually encounter performance issues or are you in the “I see condensation, this is no good” camp?

 

[Gamerlingual]

Did you actually encounter performance issues or are you in the “I see condensation, this is no good” camp?

Didn't connect for a few minutes on multiple occasions and strong hissing nice from the left cup. So yes, the condensation caused lots of problems