[Locknar]

What's Happenin' All

 
After much deliberation I've decided to sell my Alessandro/Grado MS2i's and pick up the HD650's. I'm not fluent in Audiophilese yet so I'll just say that while I dig the MS2i's (very detailed, great for rock), I found myself simply enjoying the sound of my HD595's a bit more. I think I'm a Senn guy.
 
So I've shifted my focus to finding an amp that will pair nicely with the HD650's and have narrowed it down to Schiit products (Ha!). The only amp I have experience with is my little JDS labs cmoy with bass boost (great amp) with the HRT Music Streamer II from a Mac Mini as my source. The Schiit amps seem to be well regarded and well built but I'm not sure which to choose. I sent Schiit an email inquiring about which would be best for low impedance cans and Jason Stoddard immediately responded and recommended the Asgard. I'll probably shoot them another email with this question but I wanted to get a few impressions from some Head-Fi'ers. I know there have been some threads regarding this topic but they all seem to be pre-Lyr. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[Pricklely Peete]

The Asgard can easily drive the 595's and the 650's (which are another animal entirely) with control and authority. I have heard the Asgard with my recabled 650's using a half decent DAC and it's an impressive amp for the money. You definitely won't be disappointed with it. It should mate very well with the Music Streamer II/Mac Mini source.
 
Peete.
 
 

 

[Locknar]

Thanks for the reply Peete. That's good to hear being that it's their least expensive amp. I see that a lot of people have their 650's recabled. It seems that for a $400-$500 hp that the stock cables should be enough. Is the improvement in sound dramatic? How much does a worthwhile cable upgrade cost?

 

[sling5s]

For the HD650 I would say the Nuforce HD (Amp/Dac combo).  It's got a brightness that works great for darker headphones.
So sell the HRT MS II and with it by a Nuforce.
 
Why, because from what I hear, the Asgard itself has a slight treble roll off.  It's a warm amp.  
A warm headphone paired with warm headphone really is going to give you one dark sound.
 
 

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Thanks for the reply Peete. That's good to hear being that it's their least expensive amp. I see that a lot of people have their 650's recabled. It seems that for a $400-$500 hp that the stock cables should be enough. Is the improvement in sound dramatic? How much does a worthwhile cable upgrade cost?

I had to recable because I've gone to a fully balanced system...that being said a DIY cable can be had for under 150 USD and it'll compete with all but the best aftermarket types costing many hundreds more....it all depends on what raw conductor you settle on how much it'll set you back ( I bought some nice SPC solid core in Teflon a while back for a song and then rolled my own 650 cable). Decent wire can be had from 1 dollar a foot to 30 dollars a foot.....depends on how exotic you want to go in terms of shielding, finishing, connectors etc...The stock cable is alright but it's clearly lacking some top end sparkle which gives the impression the 650's are dark. Current production 650's are the not the same as the first generation. The current production 650's do not have that marked dark character IMO that the first gen had but current 650's do roll off a tad with the stock copper cable in the HF's. I think the relaxed slightly recessed nature (alomost polite like BB-627 IC OPA's) of the upper mids is major knock on the 650's but I like the 650's anyway. No headphone is perfect unfortunately speaking although the latest Orthos (LCD-2/HE-6) are making major inroads towards perfection.
 
YMMV as always ..
 
Peete.

 

[sridhar3]

Quote:

I see that a lot of people have their 650's recabled. It seems that for a $400-$500 hp that the stock cables should be enough. Is the improvement in sound dramatic? How much does a worthwhile cable upgrade cost?

 
Asking a question like this, you're probably playing with fire.  The effects of cables on sound has been a highly-controversial and hotly-debated topic for as long as I've been reading here.  You're likely to run into a spectrum of opinions on this.
 
To answer your question in as non-inflammatory a manner as possible, I'd say your best bet would be to listen for yourself.  See if you can go to a shop and A/B phones with different cables, or borrow some from somebody you know.  You're not liable to get a straight answer from anybody else, so the best way is to answer this for yourself.
 
As far as the durability of the stock cable for the HD 650 itself goes, I'd say it's plenty durable, assuming you don't plan on using it for a game of tug-o'-war.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

It's too soon to worry about the cable. Spend on a good source and amp first, and quality cables to link the source/DAC and amp (by quality I mean anything, especially DIY, with good copper or silver conductors and solid plugs that grip well; not necessarily expensive.) Use the stock cable until it's worn or broken, it's there anyway might as well use it, unlike the extremely cheap RCA cables that come with amps or DACs . Also because you might as well get to know this system well, and therefore make a better decision on what conductors to use on your last tweak, the headphone cable.

 

[Locknar]

Quote:

Quote:
 
Asking a question like this, you're probably playing with fire.  The effects of cables on sound has been a highly-controversial and hotly-debated topic for as long as I've been reading here.  You're likely to run into a spectrum of opinions on this.
 
To answer your question in as non-inflammatory a manner as possible, I'd say your best bet would be to listen for yourself.  See if you can go to a shop and A/B phones with different cables, or borrow some from somebody you know.  You're not liable to get a straight answer from anybody else, so the best way is to answer this for yourself.
 
As far as the durability of the stock cable for the HD 650 itself goes, I'd say it's plenty durable, assuming you don't plan on using it for a game of tug-o'-war.

Sound advice man. Being that I'm new to the hobby and haven't been spoiled by experience with high end gear, I'm gonna stay pat for awhile and just enjoy my new cans with the stock cables. I read an interesting tidbit on the Stefan Audio Art site while researching the Equinox cable that the HD580/600 stock cable is actually better than the 650 stock. Maybe I'll try to pick one of those up if I can find one and play with that first. Thanks!

 

[Locknar]

Quote:

I had to recable because I've gone to a fully balanced system...that being said a DIY cable can be had for under 150 USD and it'll compete with all but the best aftermarket types costing many hundreds more....it all depends on what raw conductor you settle on how much it'll set you back ( I bought some nice SPC solid core in Teflon a while back for a song and then rolled my own 650 cable). Decent wire can be had from 1 dollar a foot to 30 dollars a foot.....depends on how exotic you want to go in terms of shielding, finishing, connectors etc...The stock cable is alright but it's clearly lacking some top end sparkle which gives the impression the 650's are dark. Current production 650's are the not the same as the first generation. The current production 650's do not have that marked dark character IMO that the first gen had but current 650's do roll off a tad with the stock copper cable in the HF's. I think the relaxed slightly recessed nature (alomost polite like BB-627 IC OPA's) of the upper mids is major knock on the 650's but I like the 650's anyway. No headphone is perfect unfortunately speaking although the latest Orthos (LCD-2/HE-6) are making major inroads towards perfection.
 
YMMV as always ..
 
Peete.

I've seen some no name cables for the 650 on ebay from places like Turkey and China that range from $75 to $150. I'm a bit wary of going that route but if I went DIY I'd probably blow it so many times that it end up costing more than a Cardas cable. I think I'd rather save the $ and pick up a killer pair of Orthos eventually. That's why I think I'll get the Lyr instead of the Asgard so that I'll have an amp that can drive some Orthos when the time comes. In the meantime I think I can live with the darkness. Right On!

 

[Locknar]

Quote:

It's too soon to worry about the cable. Spend on a good source and amp first, and quality cables to link the source/DAC and amp (by quality I mean anything, especially DIY, with good copper or silver conductors and solid plugs that grip well; not necessarily expensive.) Use the stock cable until it's worn or broken, it's there anyway might as well use it, unlike the extremely cheap RCA cables that come with amps or DACs . Also because you might as well get to know this system well, and therefore make a better decision on what conductors to use on your last tweak, the headphone cable.

Thanks Protege. It's a bit daunting when you just dropped $400+ on some headphones and you find that people in the know are replacing the stock cables with ones that cost as much as the cans themselves. I think your absolutely right though. I'll probably just pick up some Blue Jean RCA's which are pretty affordable and seem to be well regarded. Since I have a budget DAC (HRT MSII) I think the Belkin USB I have will suffice for the time being. It's really outrageous how expensive some of these cables get.
 
 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

That Belkin should do well enough. "Audiophile" USB cables, AFAIK, are mostly different in construction only in the absence of conductors for the power contacts, supposedly because the current can interfere with the signal. In theory, at least. It makes more sense to spend the $60 on a USB cable towards a good soundcard with SPDIF output (of course you'll pobably need at least another $60 on top of that...), assuming you won't need to upgrade your DAC.
 
On a related note, when I had a SuperPro 707, the sound was best through USB. For one, I always prefer using only 16/44.1 (unless it's a 24/96 file) anyway; but this particular DAC gets current from the USB to power the receiver and DAC chips, leaving the PSU to the analog opamps. Problem was, the output was so loud I had to turn the digital volume waaay down.

 

[ZorgDK]

That's why I think I'll get the Lyr instead of the Asgard so that I'll have an amp that can drive some Orthos when the time comes. In the meantime I think I can live with the darkness. Right On!

That's why I did too for the same reason. And the Lyr is great with the HD650 and it's nice to have to possibility to upgrade the tubes.