BlackbeardBen
1000+ Head-Fier
Hi there! I'm a long-time lurker that finally decided to register, since I think I may be gravitating towards my first serious headphone setup.
I know you probably see these threads all the time - in fact I see two other similar ones on the first page of this section right now. I admit, on Flickr I'm even in a group that lambasts these kind of threads as lazy on the part of the OP. So, I'll at least try to do you the favor of telling you about my specific situation and needs, which is one of those key mistakes that noobies tend to make on forums when asking for advice.
So I'm a high-end speaker addict. Well, as much as a college student tens of thousands in debt can be. My main system consists of a pair of Infinity Renaissance 90's, the bottom driven by an Adcom GFA-555 and the top by a Carver TFM-15CB. My preamp is a Carver C-11, and my main source is an NAD 5325 CD player with upgraded caps. Total retail new in the early 90's was in the neighborhood of $7000 - but I paid just under $1100 for everything. I did have to drive from Michigan to Virginia to pick up just the speakers, but it was worth it.
The Renaissance 90's (I shorten it to "R90's") are awesome speakers. If you're not familiar with high-end Infinity speakers from the 70's and 80's, they were known for their superb but fragile and power hungry EMIT and EMIM planar tweeters and midranges - and extremely hard to drive dual voice coil Watkins woofers. The Renaissance 90's (from 1992) have updated versions of all of these, including a carbon fiber coned mid-bass coupler and similarly coned Watkins (dual coil) woofer. They're a bit more compact than the older, bigger Infinities - but they're still very hard to drive (hence biamping them with almost 500wpc) and still sound quite incredible. The Adcom and Carver together run them quite well - the woofers drop down to around 1 ohm, which is no trouble for the current-happy Adcom, and the Carver with its slightly warm, tube-esque (but detailed) sound works very well with the notorious EMIT and EMIM. Of course, I'd like to get a McIntosh or two to drive them (the separate gain control for the woofer and mids/high is important) - but given my financial situation right now that is impossible.
The R90's in my system are really sweet sounding - mids and highs are very, very smooth and natural sounding. I've got some other Infinities with the EMIT tweeter and they're similar in this respect, but the EMIM in the R90's makes all the difference for vocals and instruments. Brass - and trombone in particular - sounds like nothing else I've heard. The 6" mid-bass coupler is extremely well integrated with the EMIM and the woofer - it never sticks out as a separate driver. Finally, the 10" Watkins woofer on the bottom is extremely tight and articulated - but never excessive. There's no boomy bass from these speakers - just accurate, effortless, and natural bass. Compared to anything else I've heard (various older Infinities, Klipsch, Polk, Mirage, & more), these are something special.
The real treat of the speakers is the soundstage - even compared the the Infinity Kappa 8's I had before, these are far and away the best I've heard. On good recordings, I'm enveloped with sound and they just disappear from the room. Vocalists, instruments, etc. have a sense of depth in the soundstage, sounding as if they are on stage 25 feet in front of me. Side-to-side placement is excellent and precisely locating individual sounds from left to right on stage is easy - although I have to admit that with just the Adcom (no biaming), individual voices/instruments had a laser pinpoint location to them that the Carver doesn't quite give. The soundstage is extremely wide, however - often, instruments will sound as if they are coming from beyond the speakers left or right, which is amazing. Crowd noises, choirs, and general ambient synthesizers fill the room with sound coming from all directions as in a real venue. I even get a sense of the size of the recording space - from large halls to tiny clubs, the ambience (whether real or artificial) of the room is apparent.
"Enough of this rambling on about your speakers," I can imagine you're thinking. How does this pertain to head-fi and full size headphones? Well, I'll get to that in a minute.
So what I like about the R90's the most is the very detailed yet extremely smooth mids and highs from the EMIT and EMIM drivers. I like the tight, well defined but not overpowering bass (although yes, with something like a 1" excursion capability they are capable of putting all but the best subs to shame in terms of output). Infinities are noted as generally (and these are no exception) being very neutral speakers that can sound harsh with poor solid state amplification for the EMIT and EMIM drivers. They're especially unforgiving of poorly mastered and overcompressed recordings if they aren't tamed correctly. Between the Carver amp/preamp and NAD CD player, the R90's lean just slightly warm, and they're so smooth that I can listen for extended periods at dangerously high volumes without fatigue. I'm actually worried about my hearing because they sound so smooth at higher volumes that I'm afraid I won't realize I'm actually damaging my hearing. Anyway, IMO they are very revealing without making bad recordings unlistenable - something that is hard to avoid with such detailed highs.
So what I'm trying to get at is that I'm going to Sweden this August for graduate school - and I of course won't be able to take my system.
I've looked at smaller computer monitors - like the Audioengine A2 and M-Audio AV 40, but even the A2's are awfully big for me to take with me. I don't think the sound quality would be up to par for me either, and the voltage difference of line power is another problem.
Right now I have a pair of Shure E2c IEM's and Goldring DR100 open 'phones. I like the Shures for the noise isolation (plane rides in particular), but they're too bright for my tastes and get uncomfortable after a while. The soundstage is pitiful, and they're nowhere near as detailed as my system.
The Goldrings are very comfortable and have an excellent tonal balance. They're my first open-style headphones, and I like them quite a bit. They're a little more detailed thank the Shures, and the soundstage is of course much better. They still pale in comparison to my speakers, however. The soundstage is compressed, and I don't think I'll ever like the majority of the instruments/vocals/etc. in music coming from anywhere except in front of me, where a band would be. The noise floor is much higher than the speakers, and the dynamic range is less than I hoped for. Mids are the high point of the phones, although they are of course no where near as good as the R90's. Bass is well controlled, fairly natural and in decent quantity - but again far short of the speakers. Highs are very grainy compared to the R90's - they're harsh instead of smooth, and the level of detail just isn't there. It really makes a difference in the ambience and sense of depth of the recording. I get the impression that that is what reviewers call "air" - although I am always skeptical when it comes to audiophile jargon, especially as it can be applied to snake oil. The guy that sold me the Adcom claimed to have developed this liquid you'd spray on your CDs to remove the static, and that it really helped smooth out the sound. Yeah, right... Anyway, for $53 shipped (closeout from Audio Adviser on Amazon, usually $100), they are certainly among the best sub-$100 phones.
You're probably wondering what I use to power them... Well, wonder no more. My normal portable source is a Sony D-NE300 CD player, which was sufficiently powerful for the Shures but is definitely nowhere near enough for the Goldrings. Dynamic range suffers with them, and as soon as the volume level goes up above normal listening levels in a quiet room (something that happens a lot with limited dynamic range), the Sony starts clipping.
Th Sony definitely doesn't do them justice, of course. To hear what the Goldrings are really capable of, I run them on the headphone out of the Carver pre. The dynamic range and noise floor is better than with the Sony, and of course clipping isn't a problem. They still aren't anywhere near being in the same league as the R90's, but they go from being excellent headphones for the price to even better. The grain/harshness of the highs still bugs me enough to want to seek something better, however. Now there are certainly better headphone amps out there, but the Carver is so good with the super-revealing R90's that I am sure that the headphones are the major limiting factor at this point.
Let me get my budget out of the way now - I'm hoping to spend under $400, but I really want to get as close as I can to the level of sound that my main system puts out without breaking the bank. Whatever headphones/amp/DAC I end up getting will be my main system for a year, so I want it to be as good as I can get.
While I'm in Sweden, I expect to spend most of my listening time with my laptop (just ordered a Lenovo T510 and waiting for it to come) or netbook as the source. I've got around 500 CDs right now, and I'll probably be ripping them to FLAC files for the trip since it's not really practical to bring everything I'll want to listen to for a year. I usually listen while studying or doing work at a desk or table, but I almost never listen while walking/riding/etc. except on plane rides. I do move around and would like to listen at different locations, but on-the-go usability is less of a concern.
So that's what lead me to think that my laptop & netbook should be my primary source. I think I may want a more portable source as well, so I'm looking at the well regarded Sansa Clip for when I don't have the space to take my computer.
Of course, I wouldn't plan on using anything straight out of the line out/headphone jack of my computer. Right now I think I'm going to get the FiiO E5 for the Goldrings, which ought to go well with my Sony cdp or the Sansa I may get. I'll definitely want a USB DAC for my laptop, however. Right now the E-Mu 0202 is most attractive to me, especially since it is USB powered. Running off of the computer power is important to keep the number of power adapters I have to a minimum. The price certainly helps as well.
Other options I'm looking at are the FiiO E7 and NuForce Icon Mobile I'm not really sure which style would suit me better - the computer-dedicated DAC with a line-out for speakers and an ADC for recording or the battery powered DAC with a line-in socket for portable players. Better sound quality (through the DAC) is probably enough to tip the balance.
So lastly, I've got the headphones. To be honest, my experience with speakers is that you choose your speakers first and then get an amp, preamp, and source to match them. They're far and away the most important part of the system and have the biggest influence on the sound - but if you don't give them the right quantity and quality of power you're obviously short changing them.
That said, I'm giving a long, hard look at the Sennheiser HD 600's (or maybe the cheaper and easier to drive 595's). The 600's reputation for an excellent soundstage and laid-back but still detailed sound is exactly what I'm looking for. The 0202 should have plenty of power and from all reports appears to be a pretty good DAC as well. The two would also be well within my budget - with the 600's available for under $300 and the 0202 under $100. In a pinch, the FiiO E5 I'm already ordering ought to be able to drive the 600's, although I plan on keeping the Goldrings around for that since the E5 is far from an ideal amp for large, high impedance headphones.
So I'm open and looking for suggestions regarding phones/amps/DAC's. Over-the-ear open phones are pretty much a requirement - I don't find on-the-ear phones like Grados to be comfortable for very long. The amp and DAC ought to be sufficiently portable and powered off of USB or batteries so that I can use them untethered and internationally without issue.
Am I on the right track? I know some emphasize source first, then amp and finally phones - but like I said that's not really my experience with stereo systems.
Oh, and one more thing. If you actually read my whole post - thank you. I know it's super long, but I appreciate the help and reading something so long takes a fair amount of dedication (or a certain amount of internet trolliness)!
Thanks,
Ben
I know you probably see these threads all the time - in fact I see two other similar ones on the first page of this section right now. I admit, on Flickr I'm even in a group that lambasts these kind of threads as lazy on the part of the OP. So, I'll at least try to do you the favor of telling you about my specific situation and needs, which is one of those key mistakes that noobies tend to make on forums when asking for advice.
So I'm a high-end speaker addict. Well, as much as a college student tens of thousands in debt can be. My main system consists of a pair of Infinity Renaissance 90's, the bottom driven by an Adcom GFA-555 and the top by a Carver TFM-15CB. My preamp is a Carver C-11, and my main source is an NAD 5325 CD player with upgraded caps. Total retail new in the early 90's was in the neighborhood of $7000 - but I paid just under $1100 for everything. I did have to drive from Michigan to Virginia to pick up just the speakers, but it was worth it.
The Renaissance 90's (I shorten it to "R90's") are awesome speakers. If you're not familiar with high-end Infinity speakers from the 70's and 80's, they were known for their superb but fragile and power hungry EMIT and EMIM planar tweeters and midranges - and extremely hard to drive dual voice coil Watkins woofers. The Renaissance 90's (from 1992) have updated versions of all of these, including a carbon fiber coned mid-bass coupler and similarly coned Watkins (dual coil) woofer. They're a bit more compact than the older, bigger Infinities - but they're still very hard to drive (hence biamping them with almost 500wpc) and still sound quite incredible. The Adcom and Carver together run them quite well - the woofers drop down to around 1 ohm, which is no trouble for the current-happy Adcom, and the Carver with its slightly warm, tube-esque (but detailed) sound works very well with the notorious EMIT and EMIM. Of course, I'd like to get a McIntosh or two to drive them (the separate gain control for the woofer and mids/high is important) - but given my financial situation right now that is impossible.
The R90's in my system are really sweet sounding - mids and highs are very, very smooth and natural sounding. I've got some other Infinities with the EMIT tweeter and they're similar in this respect, but the EMIM in the R90's makes all the difference for vocals and instruments. Brass - and trombone in particular - sounds like nothing else I've heard. The 6" mid-bass coupler is extremely well integrated with the EMIM and the woofer - it never sticks out as a separate driver. Finally, the 10" Watkins woofer on the bottom is extremely tight and articulated - but never excessive. There's no boomy bass from these speakers - just accurate, effortless, and natural bass. Compared to anything else I've heard (various older Infinities, Klipsch, Polk, Mirage, & more), these are something special.
The real treat of the speakers is the soundstage - even compared the the Infinity Kappa 8's I had before, these are far and away the best I've heard. On good recordings, I'm enveloped with sound and they just disappear from the room. Vocalists, instruments, etc. have a sense of depth in the soundstage, sounding as if they are on stage 25 feet in front of me. Side-to-side placement is excellent and precisely locating individual sounds from left to right on stage is easy - although I have to admit that with just the Adcom (no biaming), individual voices/instruments had a laser pinpoint location to them that the Carver doesn't quite give. The soundstage is extremely wide, however - often, instruments will sound as if they are coming from beyond the speakers left or right, which is amazing. Crowd noises, choirs, and general ambient synthesizers fill the room with sound coming from all directions as in a real venue. I even get a sense of the size of the recording space - from large halls to tiny clubs, the ambience (whether real or artificial) of the room is apparent.
"Enough of this rambling on about your speakers," I can imagine you're thinking. How does this pertain to head-fi and full size headphones? Well, I'll get to that in a minute.
So what I like about the R90's the most is the very detailed yet extremely smooth mids and highs from the EMIT and EMIM drivers. I like the tight, well defined but not overpowering bass (although yes, with something like a 1" excursion capability they are capable of putting all but the best subs to shame in terms of output). Infinities are noted as generally (and these are no exception) being very neutral speakers that can sound harsh with poor solid state amplification for the EMIT and EMIM drivers. They're especially unforgiving of poorly mastered and overcompressed recordings if they aren't tamed correctly. Between the Carver amp/preamp and NAD CD player, the R90's lean just slightly warm, and they're so smooth that I can listen for extended periods at dangerously high volumes without fatigue. I'm actually worried about my hearing because they sound so smooth at higher volumes that I'm afraid I won't realize I'm actually damaging my hearing. Anyway, IMO they are very revealing without making bad recordings unlistenable - something that is hard to avoid with such detailed highs.
So what I'm trying to get at is that I'm going to Sweden this August for graduate school - and I of course won't be able to take my system.
I've looked at smaller computer monitors - like the Audioengine A2 and M-Audio AV 40, but even the A2's are awfully big for me to take with me. I don't think the sound quality would be up to par for me either, and the voltage difference of line power is another problem.
Right now I have a pair of Shure E2c IEM's and Goldring DR100 open 'phones. I like the Shures for the noise isolation (plane rides in particular), but they're too bright for my tastes and get uncomfortable after a while. The soundstage is pitiful, and they're nowhere near as detailed as my system.
The Goldrings are very comfortable and have an excellent tonal balance. They're my first open-style headphones, and I like them quite a bit. They're a little more detailed thank the Shures, and the soundstage is of course much better. They still pale in comparison to my speakers, however. The soundstage is compressed, and I don't think I'll ever like the majority of the instruments/vocals/etc. in music coming from anywhere except in front of me, where a band would be. The noise floor is much higher than the speakers, and the dynamic range is less than I hoped for. Mids are the high point of the phones, although they are of course no where near as good as the R90's. Bass is well controlled, fairly natural and in decent quantity - but again far short of the speakers. Highs are very grainy compared to the R90's - they're harsh instead of smooth, and the level of detail just isn't there. It really makes a difference in the ambience and sense of depth of the recording. I get the impression that that is what reviewers call "air" - although I am always skeptical when it comes to audiophile jargon, especially as it can be applied to snake oil. The guy that sold me the Adcom claimed to have developed this liquid you'd spray on your CDs to remove the static, and that it really helped smooth out the sound. Yeah, right... Anyway, for $53 shipped (closeout from Audio Adviser on Amazon, usually $100), they are certainly among the best sub-$100 phones.
You're probably wondering what I use to power them... Well, wonder no more. My normal portable source is a Sony D-NE300 CD player, which was sufficiently powerful for the Shures but is definitely nowhere near enough for the Goldrings. Dynamic range suffers with them, and as soon as the volume level goes up above normal listening levels in a quiet room (something that happens a lot with limited dynamic range), the Sony starts clipping.
Th Sony definitely doesn't do them justice, of course. To hear what the Goldrings are really capable of, I run them on the headphone out of the Carver pre. The dynamic range and noise floor is better than with the Sony, and of course clipping isn't a problem. They still aren't anywhere near being in the same league as the R90's, but they go from being excellent headphones for the price to even better. The grain/harshness of the highs still bugs me enough to want to seek something better, however. Now there are certainly better headphone amps out there, but the Carver is so good with the super-revealing R90's that I am sure that the headphones are the major limiting factor at this point.
Let me get my budget out of the way now - I'm hoping to spend under $400, but I really want to get as close as I can to the level of sound that my main system puts out without breaking the bank. Whatever headphones/amp/DAC I end up getting will be my main system for a year, so I want it to be as good as I can get.
While I'm in Sweden, I expect to spend most of my listening time with my laptop (just ordered a Lenovo T510 and waiting for it to come) or netbook as the source. I've got around 500 CDs right now, and I'll probably be ripping them to FLAC files for the trip since it's not really practical to bring everything I'll want to listen to for a year. I usually listen while studying or doing work at a desk or table, but I almost never listen while walking/riding/etc. except on plane rides. I do move around and would like to listen at different locations, but on-the-go usability is less of a concern.
So that's what lead me to think that my laptop & netbook should be my primary source. I think I may want a more portable source as well, so I'm looking at the well regarded Sansa Clip for when I don't have the space to take my computer.
Of course, I wouldn't plan on using anything straight out of the line out/headphone jack of my computer. Right now I think I'm going to get the FiiO E5 for the Goldrings, which ought to go well with my Sony cdp or the Sansa I may get. I'll definitely want a USB DAC for my laptop, however. Right now the E-Mu 0202 is most attractive to me, especially since it is USB powered. Running off of the computer power is important to keep the number of power adapters I have to a minimum. The price certainly helps as well.
Other options I'm looking at are the FiiO E7 and NuForce Icon Mobile I'm not really sure which style would suit me better - the computer-dedicated DAC with a line-out for speakers and an ADC for recording or the battery powered DAC with a line-in socket for portable players. Better sound quality (through the DAC) is probably enough to tip the balance.
So lastly, I've got the headphones. To be honest, my experience with speakers is that you choose your speakers first and then get an amp, preamp, and source to match them. They're far and away the most important part of the system and have the biggest influence on the sound - but if you don't give them the right quantity and quality of power you're obviously short changing them.
That said, I'm giving a long, hard look at the Sennheiser HD 600's (or maybe the cheaper and easier to drive 595's). The 600's reputation for an excellent soundstage and laid-back but still detailed sound is exactly what I'm looking for. The 0202 should have plenty of power and from all reports appears to be a pretty good DAC as well. The two would also be well within my budget - with the 600's available for under $300 and the 0202 under $100. In a pinch, the FiiO E5 I'm already ordering ought to be able to drive the 600's, although I plan on keeping the Goldrings around for that since the E5 is far from an ideal amp for large, high impedance headphones.
So I'm open and looking for suggestions regarding phones/amps/DAC's. Over-the-ear open phones are pretty much a requirement - I don't find on-the-ear phones like Grados to be comfortable for very long. The amp and DAC ought to be sufficiently portable and powered off of USB or batteries so that I can use them untethered and internationally without issue.
Am I on the right track? I know some emphasize source first, then amp and finally phones - but like I said that's not really my experience with stereo systems.
Oh, and one more thing. If you actually read my whole post - thank you. I know it's super long, but I appreciate the help and reading something so long takes a fair amount of dedication (or a certain amount of internet trolliness)!
Thanks,
Ben
