[TopPop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I used to own them. They sounded like crap out of computer sound card, out of a Clip, and even out of an unamplified DAC. I listened to people giving advice like you're giving and made a big mistake in getting them without a good desktop amp. Maybe you need more experience with other phones to know what you're missing, because if you honestly think HD600s straight out of an onboard sound card sounds good, you are missing a lot.

Well, your experience surprises me greatly, to be honest.

But, again, please don't write off people who disagree with you so easily. I have years of experience with audio, and have heard countless speakers and headphones on countless systems.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopPop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, your experience surprises me greatly, to be honest. But, again, please don't write off people who disagree with you so easily. I have years of experience with audio, and have heard countless speakers and headphones on countless systems.

This is supposed to be an audio enthusiast site, not some general consumer site. Recommending HD600s out of an onboard computer sound card surprises ME, to be honest. I mean, I think it's a little irresponsible, to be honest. That's not much above "get a pair of skullcandies and plug them directly into your laptop." It doesn't seem like people on an audio site really should be giving advice like that when there are other options that are going to be more appropriate and are going to sound better, but that's just my opinion.

 

[TopPop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is supposed to be an audio enthusiast site, not some general consumer site. Recommending HD600s out of an onboard computer sound card surprises ME, to be honest. I mean, I think it's a little irresponsible, to be honest. That's not much above "get a pair of skullcandies and plug them directly into your laptop." It doesn't seem like people on an audio site really should be giving advice like that when there are other options that are going to be more appropriate and are going to sound better, but that's just my opinion.

You're being unreasonable, friend. It is just your opinion, as you note, and is no cause for getting worked up.

Fact:
1) The OP is interested in the HD600.
2) The OP has stated that (s)he is interested in buying a dedicated amp in the (near) future.

Subjective opinion:
1) The HD600 do not sound un-listenable when underpowered. Actually, they sound much better than many people have posted in these forums. Exaggeration, in either direction, is damaging to the overall utility of a site like this.

Subjective conclusion:
1) The OP should buy the HD600 now and enjoy the upgrade now.
2) The OP should buy a dedicated amp later and enjoy an even greater upgrade then, as well.

 

[userlander]

Huh? I'm not "worked up." Just stating facts. The HD600s are meant to be amplified, and they don't sound that good unamplified. They certainly aren't going to sound good unamplified out of an onboard computer sound card. They're not even going to sound as they should out of an onboard sound card *with* an amp.

Sheesh, that should be obvious to anyone who's been on this site longer than a week.

If he's getting an amp soon, that's a different matter -- as I have repeatedly said.

But someone talking about HD600s out of an onboard sound card obviously is relatively new to headphone audio. That person probably shouldn't even be getting HD600s to begin with, imho. He should probably get his feet wet first with more entry level stuff so he has an idea of what he wants.

AFAICT he has never even HEARD HD600s. So how do you know he even "wants" them? Just because he says so? People say all kinds of things. So your "facts" aren't even really accurate. His brain tells him he wants them, but he doesn't know what his ears want yet. He's probably just read a bunch of stuff about how great they are (WITH proper amping) and thinks he wants them. Maybe he does. Whatever. It doesn't really matter. The bottom line is they aren't going to live up to their full potential out of a onboard consumer sound card, and misleading him by saying they'll sound "fine" isn't responsible. Maybe he'll think that sounds "fine" because you told him so, and he won't even get an amp.

So that's fanboyism, of course it is. "Just get them, don't worry about how they sound - it'll be good enough!" It's just really misleading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopPop /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're being unreasonable, friend. It is just your opinion, as you note, and is no cause for getting worked up. Fact: 1) The OP is interested in the HD600. 2) The OP has stated that (s)he is interested in buying a dedicated amp in the (near) future. Subjective opinion: 1) The HD600 do not sound un-listenable when underpowered. Actually, they sound much better than many people have posted in these forums. Exaggeration, in either direction, is damaging to the overall utility of a site like this. Subjective conclusion: 1) The OP should buy the HD600 now and enjoy the upgrade now. 2) The OP should buy a dedicated amp later and enjoy an even greater upgrade then, as well.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif Huh? I'm not "worked up." Just stating facts.

... and here lies the root of your attitude problem. You think you're stating facts eh? Ok then...

 

[TopPop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif Huh? I'm not "worked up." Just stating facts.

No, you're stating opinion, combined with language that borders on condescension.

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sheesh, that should be obvious to anyone who's been on this site longer than a week.

Case in point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif AFAICT he has never even HEARD HD600s. So how do you know he even "wants" them? Just because he says so? People say all kinds of things.

This is precisely how I know he wants them, because he says so. Actually, he says that he'll be getting them soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif So your "facts" aren't even really accurate.

On the contrary, they are. I was simply reiterating statements that the OP has made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif So that's fanboyism, of course it is. "Just get them, don't worry about how they sound - it'll be good enough!" It's just really misleading.

It seems that you have misunderstood my comments. I haven't said anything close to what you allude to here. I have stated that, in my opinion and experience, the HD600 can actually sound good from a DAP headphone output.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... and here lies the root of your attitude problem. You think you're stating facts eh? Ok then...

What I'm stating is a lot closer to the facts than you fanboys. From Sennheiser's own site and the description they have there it's pretty clear that these are higher-end headphones that are intended to be amped:

Quote:

General Description The HD 600 is an audiophile-grade open dynamic hi-fi/professional stereo headphone. The advanced diaphragm design eliminates standing waves resulting in a clean sound free of artifacts and acoustical disturbances. The HD 600 is a fantastic addition to a hi-fi stack or dedicated listening room, and is a favorite among mastering engineers worldwide.

And even sites like headphone.com -- who are SELLING them -- are basically saying that these aren't really intended for straight out of a DAP and that you shouldn't mess with these without an amp to get their full potential. Anyone can read for themselves, both what they say, and between the lines. They basically say exactly what I've said: he should start with HD595s or something like that, because these are intended to be amplified:

Quote:

From the day we first heard this headphone, we considered it amongst the world's very best reference cans. ... This is probably a bit more headphone than you need if using it with portable Mp3 players and iPods, or as a general-use headphone for the TV or radio. For those applications you may want to perhaps check out the nicely efficient, lower impedance HD595 model. ... However, if you've got very healthy pro-consumer grade audio sources or even a quality "entry level" audiophile rig, these superb headphones will deliver extremely satisfying musical reproduction featuring a truly expansive dynamic range extension, precise timbral/tonal detail resolution, and a deeply layered soundstage image, along with huge bang-for-the-buck value in spades. ... Naturally, at a very stiff 300-ohm impedance rating, [size=large]a high-quality dedicated headphone amp is demanded [/size]for fully maximized audio performance and cleanly transparent musical clarity from the HD600.

So talk out of your 4ss all you want - it's your credibility you're trashing, not mine.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopPop /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, you're stating opinion, combined with language that borders on condescension. Case in point. This is precisely how I know he wants them, because he says so. Actually, he says that he'll be getting them soon. On the contrary, they are. I was simply reiterating statements that the OP has made. It seems that you have misunderstood my comments. I haven't said anything close to what you allude to here. I have stated that, in my opinion and experience, the HD600 can actually sound good from a DAP headphone output.

Well, your opinion differs from just about everyone who knows anything about headphone audio, including the people who are making and selling the gear in question.

So where does that leave you?

 

[TopPop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I'm stating is a lot closer to the facts than you fanboys. [...] So talk out of your 4ss all you want - it's your credibility you're trashing, not mine.

Now you're just being out-right rude. I have no desire to waste any more time in dialogue with someone who simply degrades to rudeness in the discussion.

Have a pleasant evening.

 

[deadpool86]

Good Lord, this sure did spark a nice debate didn't it? I'll address a few things.

First off, I am not a noob. I've been an audiophile for nearly 15 years. I've no experience with the Sennheiser HD 595 600 650, or 800. I think I own more than a few of every major brand and let me tell you I HATE Grado. I mean it. I honestly dislike the sound coming from them, I dislike the comfort, and i REALLY dislike the price for the sound quality you are getting.

having said that, I am trying to find a good deal on amps, they are just incredibly hard to find. If i can find a used 600 for around $200.00 here on the F/S forums, I will take it. If i can't, I may go for the 595, keep them for a while, and then sell them again later to afford the 600s and an amp

So lets not argue please, thank you for the strong feelings towards gear I am questioning lol...but we at head fi need to stick together.

 

[userlander]

OP - I'll tell you what. Forget all about amps or dacs - those will just be a waste of money. And forget about the HD600s, too. Save up instead for some HD800s to run out of your onboard sound card. Rip some 128kpbs mp3s while you're waiting, to use with your new phones. Those are such great headphones that they will sound better even without an amp than any lesser phones that have an amp, just like the HD600s. That'll be the best way to get the best sound for your money.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I'm stating is a lot closer to the facts than you fanboys.

Before throwing around opinions as you are doing, take some more time to better understand what the OP was asking and what we're saying that seems so ridiculous to you.

None of us is saying that the HD600 will sound it's best without being amp'd. Even amp'd the HD600 will not sound its best because not all amps are created equal. Even with great amp'ing the HD600's will not sound their best because they need a good source. etc. etc.

The OP is interested in the HD600's and asked if they would sound OK unamp'd until s/he gets an amp. My answer in that specific context would be YES.

If the OP simply asked if it would be a good idea to get the HD600 when s/he has no plans for getting an amp, my answer would be a resounding NO.

IMO, the HD600's aren't close to their best when unamp'd. However, all things being relative, they don't sound like crap unamp'd. Just not their best. Now reread your own quotes from your various sources and tell me where my opinion opposes any of what's stated there. I don't see where TopPop's advice is any different from mine either.

 

[ok1907]

I think TopPop wanted to say that without an amp they sound better than lots of good headphones and that might be true. Also, with an amp they will shine, another truth. So why disagreement?

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif OP - I'll tell you what. Forget all about amps or dacs - those will just be a waste of money. And forget about the HD600s, too. Save up instead for some HD800s to run out of your onboard sound card. Rip some 128kpbs mp3s while you're waiting, to use with your new phones. Those are such great headphones that they will sound better even without an amp than any lesser phones that have an amp, just like the HD600s. That'll be the best way to get the best sound for your money.

... and with this you dare talk about who shouldn't be posting here? tsk.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok1907 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think TopPop wanted to say that without an amp they sound better than lots of good headphones and that might be true. Also, with an amp they will shine, another truth. So why disagreement?

Just a tad taken up with his own opinion, I guess...