[grokit]

If you mean under-powering them to where they lose pacing because of the small SS/capacitor section, then maybe I see what you mean...

But my HD600s are very loud by the time I get to 11am, and they sound extremely strident and forward to me. From what I have read in this thread, that is not unusual for the Indeed with the stock Chinese tube, and there are similar complaints regarding the stock HD600 cable.

Perhaps the Indeed has a higher gain setting than the Bravo, that would make some sense; If your cans are underpowered and mine are overpowered, maybe we should look into auditioning each other's amps (but with the stock tubes

)

It seems like the better the source, the more they hurt my head, so I am really looking forward to the tube roll and cable upgrade

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecky /img/forum/go_quote.gif My sense of the Bravo with my HD580 (basically similar to HD600) is that the highs are a bit harsh, the mids a bit lacking and the bass is fun but not beautifully controlled - in short these seem to be the things people ascribe to underpowering HD580/600s, and indeed when I use a more powerful amp the highs become smoother and prettier, the mids get their weight and the bass tightens up. So whilst my HD580s sound perfectly nice with the Bravo, it's not really allowing them to do what they can and should do.

 

[grokit]

gurusan, check out the other 12 pages to this thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurusan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Has anyone tried modding it at all?

 

[gurusan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif gurusan, check out the other 12 pages to this thread

I've read the whole thread with great interest

However, people are only talking about tube rolling (which was a great help, will be getting a 6DJ8 tube for this amp). I was wondering if there would be any benefit in changing out the big capacitor for something larger? Why does the Bravo have a larger cap value in comparison with the Indeed?

 

[lecky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge Buff /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ Time for you to roll some tubes, lecky. ^^ If that Sylvania Jan 7308 is a good tube, you should really enjoy the difference. My 1/4" adapter was the pits and I threw it away. My experience with the stock 6N11 is that it is really just mediocre. A nice A frame with a dimpled disk is the way to go.

I'm not using the stock tube though - I'm using a Jan Sylvania 6DJ8, it sounds nice.

The Bravo has more than enough gain to make the HD580s deafeningly loud, but this is not the same as power. I would not have thought that there is anything wrong with the way it drives these Senns if I hadn't heard them sounding better with a more powerful amp and connected the characteristics to the way people have described these cans when underpowered or well powered. To reiterate, the Bravo makes the HD580 sound very nice, but a more powerful amp will bring significantly more to the table.

 

[Judge Buff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not using the stock tube though - I'm using a Jan Sylvania 6DJ8, it sounds nice. The Bravo has more than enough gain to make the HD580s deafeningly loud, but this is not the same as power. I would not have thought that there is anything wrong with the way it drives these Senns if I hadn't heard them sounding better with a more powerful amp and connected the characteristics to the way people have described these cans when underpowered or well powered. To reiterate, the Bravo makes the HD580 sound very nice, but a more powerful amp will bring significantly more to the table.

I suss the situation, now, lecky. A more powerful amp probably will bring out more nuances for your phones. I wonder what differences between the Indeed and Bravo mean in this regard also, because individual component differences do have effects in the final product.

For the Indeed, I reiterate that a dimpled-disk, Philips A frame is the tube of choice. If any of you can get your hands on one, either an ECC88 or a PCC88, regardless of the tube brand (my current choice of 3 is Mullard branded), it is the best I've heard hands down. The articulation of the sound is extremely precise and incredibly 3D, with slightly forward mids and range on both ends. Loud or soft, it is sooooo much better than any of my other tube types' SQ.

Zeck will be able to confirm or deny this for his hybrid, as I know he's got a couple of awesome tubes coming. One is a sweet Siemens and the other is "you guessed it," a Philips A frame.

I can't wait to hear his impressions.

 

[Judge Buff]

This vendor at eBay has a number of A Frame ECC88s in quads as BINs. Some are pretty expensive, some are decently priced. The getter type isn't specified anywhere as far as I can tell. At any extent, these are the most A Frame ECC88s I've seen in one place.

And no, I'm not shilling for anyone, before some arse accuses me of such.

The only reason that I am posting this is that after rolling about 13 different tubes into my Indeed, from a Mullard E88CC/01 (look up this tube!) through Teles and Siemens and 6922 Amperexes, the finest sounding tubes by far are A Frames with dimpled disks. One of these is a CV 5358 that I got out of the UK for .99 with two other A Frames for less than 10 pounds total including shipping. Incredible sounding tubes in this amp...

 

[grokit]

I thought I had also read about subbing out capacitors, installing attenuators, and bypassing something or other with mixed success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurusan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've read the whole thread with great interest However, people are only talking about tube rolling (which was a great help, will be getting a 6DJ8 tube for this amp). I was wondering if there would be any benefit in changing out the big capacitor for something larger? Why does the Bravo have a larger cap value in comparison with the Indeed?

 

[Nost]

well, mine is through now and just burning in( with the orig valve), I couldnt resist playing with it and have realized:
It has enormous gain... im only running hd 515's (50 Ohm) and they are on the loud side with the pot @ 8:00. this was via a tape out from my quad 34 pre-amp.

Judge Buff? is there another valve with the same pin arrangement with a lower output? or perhaps add some attenuation?

I cant help feeling that im not going to get a whole lot of any valves "character" running at such low levels...

Any thoughts?

And.... if anyone has a spare A-frame, dimpled getter valve PM me and we'll have a chat

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nost /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, mine is through now and just burning in( with the orig valve), I couldnt resist playing with it and have realized: It has enormous gain... im only running hd 515's (50 Ohm) and they are on the loud side with the pot @ 8:00. this was via a tape out from my quad 34 pre-amp. Judge Buff? is there another valve with the same pin arrangement with a lower output? or perhaps add some attenuation? I cant help feeling that im not going to get a whole lot of any valves "character" running at such low levels... Any thoughts? And.... if anyone has a spare A-frame, dimpled getter valve PM me and we'll have a chat

I would also be interested in attenuating the gain ion my Indeed Hybrid, but have never attempted circuitry modding. I can solder

I have a NOS tube en route; does the burn-in process need to start over when the tube is rolled into usage for the first time?

 

[Nost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a NOS tube en route; does the burn-in process need to start over when the tube is rolled into usage for the first time?

Yep, new tube/valve = fresh burn in process.

I'd like to be able to turn the pot to about 11-12 o'clock. not sure wether to attenuate the input or output.

If i attenuate the input, i assume the valve wouid still not be driven very hard. so the better option maybe, would be to attenuate the output making my cans harder to drive. is this "sound" thinking or not? anyone want to add their two pence/cents?

 

[Judge Buff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nost /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, mine is through now and just burning in( with the orig valve), I couldnt resist playing with it and have realized: It has enormous gain... im only running hd 515's (50 Ohm) and they are on the loud side with the pot @ 8:00. this was via a tape out from my quad 34 pre-amp. Judge Buff? is there another valve with the same pin arrangement with a lower output? or perhaps add some attenuation? I cant help feeling that im not going to get a whole lot of any valves "character" running at such low levels... Any thoughts? And.... if anyone has a spare A-frame, dimpled getter valve PM me and we'll have a chat

It's my experience that PCCs do not have the output strength of an ECC. The PCC is designed for ~7V while the ECC is designed for 6.3V (I think it's .3). Boomy is the mod man, but some other tweakers are surely doing some stuff. You may want to check out the Bravo thread, too.

 

[i_djoel2000]

hi all, im new here..^^

i just ordered my indeed tube amp and will be shipped tomorrow, hopefully i dont regret buying this beautiful little amp..

does anybody know in what level this little amp sounds? i mean, does the sound quality level let say..starving student millet hybrid or portable amp ibasso D2+ maybe?

 

[Nost]

It all depends on the source, and your kit. if your listning to mp3 from yer PC on a pair of Ross then you'll find the amp absolutley fine (although the it is a VERY high gain amp). if youve some 300-600 Ohm headphones, they will be better suited as they are harder to drive.

My Senn HD515's (50Ohm (budjet but ok)) are quite over powered by this amp and i am in the process of devising an attenuator.

Previous Posts will give you some idea of what valves/tubes are well suited for rolling.

Unfortunately, your best best bet is to wait for the little thing to arrive, burn the valve or tube in (it's a class A so you dont need to apply a signal) just leave it on for a few hours. and then judge for yourself. it's a great little amp and you wont be dissapointed for your money.

BTW, Welcome

 

[jcoops16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nost /img/forum/go_quote.gif (it's a class A so you dont need to apply a signal) just leave it on for a few hours.

Is that true of all class A components? As I had music playing through it as I burned my Bravo in, but I didnt need to?

 

[i_djoel2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nost /img/forum/go_quote.gif It all depends on the source, and your kit. if your listning to mp3 from yer PC on a pair of Ross then you'll find the amp absolutley fine (although the it is a VERY high gain amp). if youve some 300-600 Ohm headphones, they will be better suited as they are harder to drive. My Senn HD515's (50Ohm (budjet but ok)) are quite over powered by this amp and i am in the process of devising an attenuator. Previous Posts will give you some idea of what valves/tubes are well suited for rolling. Unfortunately, your best best bet is to wait for the little thing to arrive, burn the valve or tube in (it's a class A so you dont need to apply a signal) just leave it on for a few hours. and then judge for yourself. it's a great little amp and you wont be dissapointed for your money. BTW, Welcome

thanx Nost

btw, i didnt exactly ask about rolling tube amp or tweaking this little amp. i simply asked how does the untweaked, unmodded indeed tube amp sound against D2 or student starving milet hybrid. i want to compare with millet hybrid cause i think the price range is about equal, and ibasso D2+ eventhough its more expensive i think maybe indeed sounds better. so i wanna ask anybody who had experienced trying one of those amps

however, thanx for your respond and warm welcome