[whirlwind]

 

   
I think I will grab a pair of 5998 while I have the cash and explore the 6080's later on.
 
Heck, I do not even have my OTL yet....I am just getting ready  

 

 
You would be very welcome here

 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/1830#post_11426714
 
In case you have not seen it take a look at Nick Tams excellent assessment of the top tier 6as7g/6080 tubes 5998, WE421a, GEC 6as7g, Bendix etc the pics have disappeared (only recently) but its still very handy for reference  and you can always google up a image of the tube in question.
 
http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html

Thanks, for that link.

 

[jibzilla]

 
My B65 with my Apex Pinnacle with Senn 800's balanced has plenty of bass, although not as much as a SS amp might have. It really sounds sublime with all types of music. I have thought about adding the LCD 3F, but now I'm not so sure.

The lcd-3f has as much bass as the hd800. Pretty even in that department imo. where the rest of the audeze line in bassier. However I do not recommend running lcd's and hd 800's off the same amp, even one as nice as the pinnacle and I have owned the Peak/Volcano for a while now so I know pete don't play.
 
The lcd's and hd800's are just way too different sound signature wise. One is dark, the other bright and even the brightest of the group X and 3f I would describe as slightly dark. The X is closer sound wise(more open and detailed than the 3f) to the hd800 but I don't get allot of headroom on the X and I would have to imagine the same for the pinnacle.
 
I have read that the hd800 with the pinnacle is on of the best headphone amp pairings ever so I would say it sways in that direction. You could add a 3f but I doubt it sounds any better than my peak/volcano with it. If you want the hd800 imo. you have to go with hifiman if you want to run both off the same amp. I listened to the he-560 recently with a bmc pure dac and it was wonderful, butt ugly, but a very large improvement in build quality, weight, and comfort while retaining the very good sq. of the he-500. A very nice headphone if you can get past the looks and the he-1000 and lcd-Z is coming out soon as well. For Audeze owners you are stuck with the hd650 as your best option. The silver driver's are brighter than the black driver but like the X and 3f I would say they are slightly dark. I really wish sennheiser would make a slightly darker hd850 but the hd650 is still very nice and with the new furutech cable have a real $1k headphone feel and sound.
 
To each his own but I will never pay over $300 for a 6sn7 tube. The b65 is nice and I have not listened to a tsrp yet but if you guys want rare the sweedish military and telfunken make the tsrp and b65 look very common place. The Sweedish military as far as I can tell has not been up for sale in over 2 years and the telfunken's are shrouded in mystery with many people claiming telfunken never made a 6sn7. I can get a telfunken locally right now but the guy won't come off $350. Isquirrel there is a pair of tsrp's on head-fi for $450 quad for $850, tsrp's are rare but still not going over $300.   

 

[Bob383rad]

I'm really happy with the hd800 for now. I also have the k812 and the hd600. I'm happy with a Chord Hugo as the DAC. The Pinnacle really sounds great with the B65. Every time I think about another can, I challenge myself as to what I would enjoy more than the hd800.

 

[jibzilla]

I'm really happy with the hd800 for now. I also have the k812 and the hd600. I'm happy with a Chord Hugo as the DAC. The Pinnacle really sounds great with the B65. Every time I think about another can, I challenge myself as to what I would enjoy more than the hd800.

I like the hd600 and 800 as well but the hot treble usually leaves my ears ringing. I have tried to get rid of that hot treble but the only thing I have found that truly did it was a metrum hex with a dna stratus and that is very expensive and I don't feel like starting all over again. I can only imagine the pinnacle taking it a notch further than the dna but it costs damn near what my whole setup cost. 
 
I have had much better luck trying to brighten darker sounding headphones. Something as cheap as a used schiit mojo for around $500 can really get you decently extended treble without the ringing on a lcd headphone, a bryston bha-1 will take it even further and a peak/volcao and liquid fire even further but by then I think you reach the limits of the best amps out there for the lcd, maybe a gsx-mk2 but I have yet to listen to that.
 
The hd800 and certainly the 600 have been around allot longer than the lcd's and they're more popular. I'm not surprised that there are not any uber doober close to 5 figure amps out there for them and sadly I don't think you will see any amps like that till a hd850 is released. However I see planar's really taking off in the next decade and hifiman also makes great offerings that pair well with the hd800 off the same amp...sorry for going OT.

 

[rosgr63]

 
To each his own but I will never pay over $300 for a 6sn7 tube. The b65 is nice and I have not listened to a tsrp yet but if you guys want rare the sweedish military and telfunken make the tsrp and b65 look very common place. The Sweedish military as far as I can tell has not been up for sale in over 2 years and the telfunken's are shrouded in mystery with many people claiming telfunken never made a 6sn7. I can get a telfunken locally right now but the guy won't come off $350. Isquirrel there is a pair of tsrp's on head-fi for $450 quad for $850, tsrp's are rare but still not going over $300.   

 
Telefunken 6SN7, Swedish Standard 33S30 and other rare tubes are also sold privately and never make their way to ebay.
 
Despite the high prices they demand they are not necessarily ALL that better than other tubes.
 
A lot depends on the system and personal preferences.
 
Finally don't forget there is a European Black Glass Round Plates 6SN7.

 

[JamieMcC]

Couldn't resist posting these rare beauties not 6sn7 but Nickel plated E80cc which are interchangeable in my amp. These are the only ones I have ever seen and the only pics of them on the net seem to be the one I have posted. They are glorious sounding  tubes which I only use on rare occasions conscious of their rarity
 

 

 

 

 

[rosgr63]

Rarer still, I think are the RCA CRC 38142 with Nickel Plates

 

[jibzilla]

   
Telefunken 6SN7, Swedish Standard 33S30 and other rare tubes are also sold privately and never make their way to ebay.
 
Despite the high prices they demand they are not necessarily ALL that better than other tubes.
 
A lot depends on the system and personal preferences.
 
Finally don't forget there is a European Black Glass Round Plates 6SN7.

I would love to hear a 33S30 but I think I might try to score a single tsrp and call it a day. The 3f is more tube specific than the X but I still have a fairly large collection that works well with it. The pre cbs hytron is suppose to make it here tomorrow.

 

[rosgr63]

The Hytron is a nice tube, you'll like it I am sure.

 

[Bob383rad]

I can listen to the Pinnacle with the HD800's for hours without the treble assault. I have the cans balanced with Cardas 4 pin cable at Todd's suggestion. He's a great person to deal with.I'll await the reviews of the new HiFi man 1000 cans.

 

[dminches]

My understanding is that the VT231 and non-VT231 tubes were the same tube but the VT231 measured to closer tolerance.  So, there is a difference but who knows if you can hear it.
 
I haven't seen the prices of these tubes rise much in the past 2-3.
 
 
Quote:

  I don't need any convincing the TS RP BG is the ultimate 6SN7 - my old friend worked as an engineer for TS and he says the 6SN7 's were engineered to be the superior tube, he said we knew were creating something special with that tube. I have Briamr's, RCA's, Ken Rad's blah blah. Nothing holds a candle to a good set of these babies.
 
I am clearly addicted to them I now have 16 sets. Yes there are differences between them but they are not major, funnily enough everyone raves about the VT-231's - they were designated that because their primary primary purpose was for the military, they didn't care so much about specs - only testing a couple of pairs out of batches - and if they passed they were stored or deployed. As a result you can get some real fails there. I have found that's it trial and error and trying my best to match a set up that have the same volume output.  
 
Its rubbish that the one's marked VT-231 should be worth more or less. They are exactly the same tube.
 
Just bought a nice NOS set that test well for US $640 pair. I predict they will be up to $800 by the end of the year.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

Some 33S30 were on ebay a few month ago  and their German brother so they do come up, but were too rich for me. I fould that what is the best tube in one location rarely translates as the best in other situations though certainly there is groups of better tubes and others less good.

 

[Mechans1]

I missed a pair of the Swedish 33S30's that would have come to me from a private seller who has consistently sold me superior examples of true NOS tubes.  Unfortunately I used most of them as they came to me at the height of my tube rolling experimentation.
I have bought some really uninspired TSRPs I have 3 pairs, only one pair sounds truly special.  I think you have to be careful about generalization on a single tube or lot of tubes, because condition is very important. Sometimes a designation like VT231 seems to correlate with a better sounding tube than it's GT civilian clone, regardless of the engineers intent.  The statement that  3 rivet 3 hole plates are the same as the GTs  (2 hole plates of this apparent design that  otherwise  seem to be  " Identical' to   the 51-53 GT tube is very wrong, despite the  "expert" source.  Len over on audio asylum dissected the tubes in question and the Bad Boy seemed to much more  stoutly designed with seriously much more copper wire length and gauge. Ultimately it means doing your homework. 
I am an older fart  and think many of you rush headlong into the world of tubes buying only very expensive rarities.  It would be very instructive to try less expensive tubes to give you a perspective and really knowing that there is no "ordinary 6SN7" that would satisfy your needs and as I already said give you the background that would makes sense of buying the rarities, otherwise it just a  pissing contest.
 
P.S.  The domino 5998s are excellent and that 6080s OK  but not as good.
To whomever expressed being anxious about finding them.  They are already in short supply.  I bought a couple of the Western Electric 421As and one of the two is pretty weak, so caveat emptor.

 

[Porteroso]

TS rp have risen since I got my WA6. Used to be around 400, easy to find a matched pair on ebay. Now, not so much.
 
By the way, if there are better tubes than the 6F8G NU (in either 6F8G or 6SN7), other than the TSrp, what are they? Aside from mythical tubes that one cannot source, that is. I know that neither RCA grey glass or red base stand up, TS flat plate is a no, Melz is a no, Raytheon is a no, have not tried KenRad yet, but by all accounts, no.

 

[Stereolab42]

Well-spoken Mechans1. The correlation between tube audio quality and price is weak at best. Past certain breakpoints, personal preference and individual tube variations seem to matter far more.