[atothex]

I was just wondering if there's a decent market for these. I personally don't like the idea of cutting up or replacing a perfectly good headphone cable to go balanced. Maybe manufacturers can be convinced to make high end phones with balanced terminations as standard equipment.

 

[atothex]

Nobody else wants this? Would I get more hits in the high end forum?

 

[Sennshead]

I think the problem is that so many of the high end components are not balanced...yet high end, but I agree with you if you mean that they should offer it as an option...or possibly a low cost upgrade...and include a 4-pin to stereo adapter.

 

[atothex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennshead /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the problem is that so many of the high end components are not balanced...yet high end, but I agree with you if you mean that they should offer it as an option...or possibly a low cost upgrade...and include a 4-pin to stereo adapter.

What do you mean many high end components aren't balanced? Headphone amps with "balanced" outs are fairly common these days, in my estimation. And balanced is VERY common in speaker rigs.

Yeah, I mean as an option or upgrade.

 

[Mehve]

The number of balanced amps out there are still far less than the number of SE ended amps. And this isn't exactly a giant market, all things considered. And some of those balanced amps only have a pair of 3-pin XLR's. So you'd then need to provide an adaptor. And it would require the company to either maintain and stock another SKU, or add parts to a package that the majority of buyers wouldn't need.

Honestly, it's probably better the way things are: you buy a SE headphone, but you've got numerous options for reterminating or replacing the cable if you want to go balanced. And really, for something like headphones, you wouldn't likely consider balancing them unless you'd done some research to decide if you want to or not. If anything, the one thing that might nice would be for even more headphones to use removable connectors.

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mehve /img/forum/go_quote.gif The number of balanced amps out there are still far less than the number of SE ended amps. And this isn't exactly a giant market, all things considered. And some of those balanced amps only have a pair of 3-pin XLR's. So you'd then need to provide an adaptor. And it would require the company to either maintain and stock another SKU, or add parts to a package that the majority of buyers wouldn't need. Honestly, it's probably better the way things are: you buy a SE headphone, but you've got numerous options for reterminating or replacing the cable if you want to go balanced. And really, for something like headphones, you wouldn't likely consider balancing them unless you'd done some research to decide if you want to or not. If anything, the one thing that might nice would be for even more headphones to use removable connectors.

+1,All good phones should have plug in cords.

 

[Uncle Erik]

The 4 pin XLR is a nice jack, but the problem is that there's a huge amount of gear with standard jacks out there already. Changing the jack would mean a considerable amount of expense and reconfiguration for manufacturers when they already have a standard that works well.

Also, not everything is as "balanced" as you might imagine. XLR jacks get added to single-ended gear because manufacturers know that people will pay extra for something marketed as "balanced." Many people who trumpet balanced gear are actually running single-ended. You have to dig around and develop a technical understanding if you want to be truly balanced. I did some homework on the matter and found that my choices were extremely limited - and extremely expensive - if I wanted a genuinely balanced rig. I'd also have to give up several sources that kick mucho butt. It wasn't worth it, in my estimation.

 

[atothex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 4 pin XLR is a nice jack, but the problem is that there's a huge amount of gear with standard jacks out there already. Changing the jack would mean a considerable amount of expense and reconfiguration for manufacturers when they already have a standard that works well. Also, not everything is as "balanced" as you might imagine. XLR jacks get added to single-ended gear because manufacturers know that people will pay extra for something marketed as "balanced." Many people who trumpet balanced gear are actually running single-ended. You have to dig around and develop a technical understanding if you want to be truly balanced. I did some homework on the matter and found that my choices were extremely limited - and extremely expensive - if I wanted a genuinely balanced rig. I'd also have to give up several sources that kick mucho butt. It wasn't worth it, in my estimation.

I still wouldn't say extremely limited. Maybe I'm not understanding balanced correctly, but fully balanced sources don't seem too uncommon. I guess if one were to insist on a fully balanced dedicated tube headphone amp: I don't know of any off hand.

Still, a Balancing Act or ZDT is "balanced" enough for me to want that balanced termination, if I were to own one. Yeah, I know they're not fully differential. Call me an audiophool, but I wouldn't say the "balanced" drive is useless.

Edit: I guess the Woo 22 is balanced.

 

[Currawong]

People with balanced headphones represent a minute fraction of headphone owners. Nice a thought as it is, it's not going to ever happen.

 

[atothex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif People with balanced headphones represent a minute fraction of headphone owners. Nice a thought as it is, it's not going to ever happen.

But what about owners of >$1000 phones? Still minute? I don't really know.

 

[Gazza]

Balanced is (practically) irrelevant for vinyl users. Personally, I don't get the fascination with balanced cans. Excuse my ignorance but if balancing the transducer is so important why don't we see non-powered speakers with balanced inputs?

 

[krmathis]

I think there is a decent market. But certainly not on par with the market for TRS termination.
The amount of corresponding amplifiers with a 4-pin XLR jack is too limited.

I would personally love to see more 'phones out there with a stack 4-pin XLR termination though.

 

[grawk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazza /img/forum/go_quote.gif Balanced is (practically) irrelevant for vinyl users. Personally, I don't get the fascination with balanced cans. Excuse my ignorance but if balancing the transducer is so important why don't we see non-powered speakers with balanced inputs?

Every pair of speakers has a separate connection for each speaker's + and - line, so with a bridged amp, you are driving your speakers balanced. That's really all you're doing with balanced headphone amps.

An advantage to using xlr connections instead of quarter inch or especially eighth inch is that you never short out the connections when plugging the cables in or out. That means you won't ever risk shorting your output stage and blowing up your amp. That said, it's easy enough to reterminate headphones, and the number of headphone amps with balanced outputs are small enough that I don't think 4pin will get traction in the broader marketplace. So people like me will continue to have their headphones reterminated or recabled on delivery.

 

[haloxt]

Maybe mini-xlr since it is smaller, but not as small as mini-plugs, so it could be used even on mp3 players, but it is quite expensive and is only manufactured by switchcraft. A new 4-pin standard that has very good contact and that is backward compatible with mini-plugs would be nice (and somehow get rid of the shortcircuiting part).

 

[vcoheda]

percenatge of users who are singled ended vs balanced.

single ended: 75%
balanced 2-3 pin 20%
balanced 4 pin 5%