[Monsterzero]

Your youtube channel is very cool.

Thank you!

 

[mordy]

I was speaking in very general terms. But of course, tubes manufactured in the same factory, but at different times, often sound different.

Still, there is no mistaking a Mullard ECC88 for a Siemens ECC88, regardless of the date of manufacture. The sonic signatures of tubes manufactured by these two companies are very different. And I would assume that this is also true if comparing 12AX7.

And to make things more complicated, I have found that the same tube sounds different listening through headphones directly through the GOTL, compared to listening via speakers instead.
Probably processing the signal through the power amp and speakers has an impact on the sound.

 

[attmci]

For sure, the Mullard GZ32 is not at all bright, but the different brands of 6BL7 do have different sonic signatures. Which brand are you using? You might want compare RCA, Sylvania, GE and Tung-Sol to see how well they complement the C3g in your system. (I assume you have the Siemens.). In my experience, Sylvania 6BX7 have the most treble energy, next the GE, and then Tung-Sol and RCA.

And then, we all have different ears. My old and wornout ears are pretty sensitive to treble and I use a pair of HD700's. While my headphones have been modified to smooth out and attenuate the treble, they are still rather bright. I have found the combination of Tung-Sol 6BX7, GEC U18/20 and Siemens C3g to be magical. However, when I roll in the Lorenz C3g, the sound becomes rather dull and flat. Swapping in the brighter Fivre 6BX7 in place of the Tung-Sol 6BX7 brings the magic back.

You need to get rid of a couple of tubes and the HD-700. Then......... LOL

 

[UntilThen]

ECC31 and 5998 is in the house.

There are good combinations and there are great combinations. This is a great combination.

 

[gibosi]

You need to get rid of a couple of tubes and the HD-700. Then......... LOL

After modding, my 700s now sound like a cross between the 650 and 800. I am very happy with them, so no, I am not going to get rid of them.

And why would I want to get rid of any tubes? From my viewpoint, having lots of tubes is a luxury. For example, for any driver, I can roll through a large number of output tubes and rectifiers until I find a magical combination. (That said, I am more than willing to get rid of my Little Dot tubes, but it seems that no one wants them....)

So I am keeping the 700s and I will keep buying more tubes.

 

[leftside]

I was speaking in very general terms. But of course, tubes manufactured in the same factory, but at different times, often sound different.

Still, there is no mistaking a Mullard ECC88 for a Siemens ECC88, regardless of the date of manufacture. The sonic signatures of tubes manufactured by these two companies are very different. And I would assume that this is also true if comparing 12AX7.

You're probably right. My mate who has a lot more rare/exotic tubes says the following about the early 12AX7 tubes (1953 - 1956):

"Siemens first version and first two versions of Valvo are all my fav 12ax7 with the early mullards. The mullards have the most rounded highs (warmth) the Valvo and Siemens are the most linear with the Valvo having the greatest extension. The Amperex are the most holographic, Valvo have the biggest bass, Siemens have the best sound stage. So depending of your system each tube has its best place and when used in combos, line stage/phono stage the best combo is often one pair of each depending on your system. My preference is the second version Valvo with the first version Siemens for my system. "

 

[JazzVinyl]

Kept the TS 12SN7 BGRP but returned to the Mullard 6080's for a deep syrupy dive into tonight's "Illusion of real", via another Jazz Trio album

John Taylor Trio: Rosslyn

The traditional trio, Piano/Bass/Drums...This album is recorded to an unusually high standard. Everything is close miked, and you hear the slightest nuance that happened in the studio

The "drummer" is especially fascinating - a subtle yet intricate percussive conversation adheres to the fabric laid down by piano and bass.

Interplay between Mr Taylor and his band mates, Marc Johnson, on bass and Joey Baron on drums.
Is outstanding. Jazz played like this is a language, a dialect of art, expressed via sound waves.

The album is outstanding, all the tunes are great, my personal favorites are:

The Bowl Song, and How Deep Is The Ocean.

I do think there is a special "Kid Glove" handling of the low frequencies via the 6080's that makes this sound so incredibly realistic.

i say again...."Thank you, Glenn"!

 

[whirlwind]

Kept the TS 12SN7 BGRP but returned to the Mullard 6080's for a deep syrupy dive into tonight's "Illusion of real", via another Jazz Trio album

John Taylor Trio: Rosslyn

The traditional trio, Piano/Bass/Drums...This album is recorded to an unusually high standard. Everything is close miked, and you hear the slightest nuance that happened in the studio

The "drummer" is especially fascinating - a subtle yet intricate percussive conversation adheres to the fabric laid down by piano and bass.

Interplay between Mr Taylor and his band mates, Marc Johnson, on bass and Joey Baron on drums.
Is outstanding. Jazz played like this is a language, a dialect of art, expressed via sound waves.

The album is outstanding, all the tunes are great, my personal favorites are:

The Bowl Song, and How Deep Is The Ocean.

I do think there is a special "Kid Glove" handling of the low frequencies via the 6080's that makes this sound so incredibly realistic.

i say again...."Thank you, Glenn"!

This is a great tube combo and one that I use quite often for certain blues music....nothing sounds bright from this tube combo, you can listen to guitar oriented music for hours with no fatigue from brightness.
It is funny how some people call something more detailed others call bright, lol.
The HD800 is the brightest headphone that I own at the moment.

I am much more a warm and musical type of listener most of the time.

 

[attmci]

You're probably right. My mate who has a lot more rare/exotic tubes says the following about the early 12AX7 tubes (1953 - 1956):

"Siemens first version and first two versions of Valvo are all my fav 12ax7 with the early mullards. The mullards have the most rounded highs (warmth) the Valvo and Siemens are the most linear with the Valvo having the greatest extension. The Amperex are the most holographic, Valvo have the biggest bass, Siemens have the best sound stage. So depending of your system each tube has its best place and when used in combos, line stage/phono stage the best combo is often one pair of each depending on your system. My preference is the second version Valvo with the first version Siemens for my system. "

I was trying to persuade Ken to purchase a pair of nicer cans. Which is much needed for him to tube rolling. He will be able to contribute more valuable advice than what he is doing now. But everyone makes his own decision and we always appreciate Ken's help to many head-fiers.

 

[gibosi]

I was trying to persuade Ken to purchase a pair of nicer cans. Which is much needed for him to tube rolling. He will be able to contribute more valuable advice than what he is doing now. But everyone makes his own decision and we always appreciate Ken's help to many head-fiers.

Ha! I don't need new cans! I need new ears!! lol

 

[JazzVinyl]

The HD800 is the brightest headphone that I own at the moment.

I am much more a warm and musical type of listener most of the time.

Me too brother! Give that that warm/lush/tubey "big fat round round tone" any day

 

[JazzVinyl]

ECC31 and 5998 is in the house.

There are good combinations and there are great combinations. This is a great combination.

Bet that bass is fantastic! I am "shy" of the 5998's now - with 2 reports of blown headphones....

 

[Althalus]

A 3dg4 post.

I followed gibosi's advice and managed to get 7 3dg4's. Lucky enough all from the same seller, this reduces the shipping cost's for me, altough shipping, taxes and handling at customs made them twice as expensive. .
By luck I ended up with 5 different brands. However I'm not sure who manufacterd each tube and when.

The box of the Tung-Sol is slightly wider than the rest and the boxes of the RCA's are shorter.

As you can see, the Tung-Sol and GE are identical tubes. Both have two mica with each 16 spikes. A top halo getter and two D? side getters.

The Tung-Sol has the stop logo on the glass with underneath usa3, on the base is the code 322NC3.
322 is Tung-Sol, NC3 is meaningless for me, what does it stand for?

The GE has the dot's on the glass and on the base 63-26 and 188-5. I think this stands for 1963-june. 188 is GE, the 5, again not a clue.

The manufacturercodes are not helping me either, from the pictures on the internet I think both are Tung-Sol.


The Sylvania has 2 halo side getters, a bottom mica with no spikes and a top mica with 10 spikes. The tube has also a lot of free space in the head. The codes on the base say bh and AFG, but i cannot find what it stands for. From pictures on the internet I think this is a true Sylvania.

The westinghouse is slightly shorther than the Sylvania. Has two mica with both 12 spikes and 2 D? side getters. On the base is written 337 and 63-52.
337 is Westinghouse, 63 is 1963 and 52 i'm not sure about, or a month code (december) or a week code (week 52). I think this tube is a GE because it looks like the second GE tube i have and because accoring to Gibosi only TS, GE, Sylvania and RCA produced this tube. However confirmation always welcome.

The sylvania in this picture was only for size comparison, but I should have used the westinghouse because I think it's identical to the GE on this picture.
The GE on this picture has a clear base. 2 mica's with both 12 spikes and 2 D? getters. The code on the glass says RI and 165-5. A.gain no idea what it stands for. Maybe I should start to learn the dot's (if they are not from the meaningless period)

The two RCA labeld tubes are the shortest of them all. Each both mica 12 spikes, but different getters. And simple but differently labeled.
One RCA DG on the base and stopsign at side of glass, and 2 rectangular side getters. I think this one might be februari 1971.
The other RCA FB on the glass and a stopsign on top of het glass. And 2 round (halo?) side getters. The code has a mirrored L, but i think its an F, Thus FB is januari 1975.

When I'm correct I managed, by luck, to get a tube from each manufacturer. and from RCA even different (getter) versions. Now waiting for the gotl and then listen if there are differences in soundquality.

Sorry for those who have only hexfred, but I wanted today add something usefull to this site.

And for Glenn, I would still apreciate it when you include a tested rectifier tube with the amp. Just as comparison

 

[mordy]

Hi Athalus,
322 is Tung-Sol, NC3 is meaningless. As far as I know, nobody has been able to come up with an explanation what the three symbol code means on TS tubes.
The GE has the dot's on the glass and on the base 63-26 and 188-5. The GE tubes usually have the sand blasted dots. If those dots are there, it means GE regardless of what the name is on the tube.
All date codes like 63-26 refer to the year (in some cases different decades like 1963 or 1973 etc), and the following two digits always refer to week. 26:4=June. But see link below:
The GE EIA (Electrical Industry Association) code is 188.
The 5 refers to a factory. The most common is 5, which means Owensboro, Kentucky. This factory started out as Ken-Rad (Kentucky Radio) and was bought up by GE.
Here is a link to decipher GE codes and dots:
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=230932
Here is a chart of GE factory codes:
GE EIA/RETMA LOCATION CODES
188-4 OWENSBORO, KY.
188-5 OWENSBORO, KY. This is most predominate.
188-6 SCHENECTADY, NY
188-20 SCHENECTADY, NY
188-21 SCHENECTADY, NY
188-22 SCRANTON, PA
Re the Sylvania tube, the codes are a mystery:
The 3 letter Sylvania markings are not date codes. They are production lot codes.
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=330504
Some Sylvania tubes have a 3 symbol combination:
L7V as an example. The following is an educated guess:
The first letter refers to the month; A=January, B=February etc.
Thus L means December.
7 refer to the year, but you have to guess the decade based on construction or whatever - could be 1957 or 1967.
The V in the three symbol code is some kind of factory code.
Test yourself: What does B9C mean?
Here is a comprehensive link to RCA date codes:
http://pax-comm.com/rcadates.pdf
I am sure Oskari can shed more light on this and correct me if needed.
Have fun!

 

[gibosi]

As Mordy notes, the sandblasted lettering and dot pattern indicates GE regardless of the branding. Always. The dot-pattern is a date code.

And as you noticed, an octagon with USA 3 printed below indicates 1960's era Tung Sol. "NC3" appears to be a date code but to my knowledge there is no information in the public domain to enable us to decipher this code.

On the two Sylvania 3DG4 in my collection, there is no octagon, only text: 3DG4 on the first line and USA on the second. If yours have similar marking, I would judge them to be true 1960's era Sylvania.

Unfortunately, I do not own any RCA 3DG4. However, RCA did use the octagon on their tubes.