Originally Posted by peanuthead /img/forum/go_quote.gif If some genious developed an amp that is indisputably the best sounding ever, with $10 worth of parts, and charged $1000 for it, I'd buy it.
Back to the original topic .... I think the Amb Mini3 portable (usually selling for ~ $125-150) handily beats all of the highly regarded and expensive potables I have heard for sound quality, such as the RSA SR-71, RSA Hornet and Headamp AE-2 .... using Senn 580/600s or Alessandro MS2s.
I find the amazing little Millet Starving Student amp (~ $90-150 for mine) will take on many much more expensive amps when using low impedance Grado/ Alessandros. I like the Millet SS slightly better than the Mapletree Ear+ and noticeably better than Woo 6 stock and Headamp GS-1 I owned using Grados. The Millet SS also drives Grados with more authority and noticeably better sound quality than the RSA Raptor, IMO, which is $1200 amp. The Mapletree Ear+ is always recommended for its Grado synergy and the GS-1 was originally designed with the Grados in mind. While both the Ear+ and GS-1 do a fine job with Grados the Millet SS is just more to my liking. The Millet SS even does my Ortodynamics justice .... but unfortunately falls on its face with high impedance Senns.
The SOHA with discrete JISBOS output stage is a fantastic amp that is even a small amount more liquid and refined than the Millet SS. Moreover, this holds true not only with Grados, but even with high impedance headphones like the Senns or very difficult to drive headphones such as the Yamaha YH-1/ YH-3 orthodynamic designs. I love this amp and I picked up the amp for the miserly sum of $250.
The Dark Voice 336SE (~ $200 used in my case tubed with a 6GU7 / adapter for gain and TS 6080 output tube) is an excellent amp for Senn 580/600/650s. I much prefer this amp to, again, the Ear+, Woo 6 stock, GS-1 and Raptor using Senns. I had become so pleased with my Alessandros and Orthodynamics I was thinking of selling all my Senns. But, this amp changed my mind once I rolled in the 6GU7.
Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif I criticized that the GS-1 has an identical amp section to the lite, but with a few convenience features added, and a very large, sophisticated internal power supply similar to a sigma-11 or other high quality power supply. Yes, a power supply of high quality is extremely important. No, I don't think it should cost $500 more over the price of the Lite. That is a personal opinion of mine, and shouldn't discourage anyone from getting a GS-1. The amp section is of course well designed, and many like it. It is more that the Lite is a very good value because it has the exact same amp section as the GS-1 and one half the amp section of the GS-X. I have said nothing other than that some amplifiers give you more for the money than others simply because some amplifiers' costs are going to marketing.
As you stated, it is truly a wonder that the Lite used the same modules than the GS-1 and the Lite is really held back by the Elpac supply. And no, I'm not a client of headamp but a diyer who has build the same amplifier and tested various power supplies. The modules, for most headphones, are about as good as anything you can get, without cost considerations. Technically speaking of course... tastes are a very different business.
I don't see why the GS1 shouldn't cost 899$ though. As a diyer, I certainly couldn't build something as beautiful for a third of the cost. And a 3-1 ratio is pretty good in hifi.
To add to that, I can also confirm you that a GS1 is a very time consuming build. Justin relies only on matched jfets and transistors to keep the offset down. Matching dozens of transistors takes an awful long time. The Lite has trimpots for offset nulling. It probably means that the bad matches are recycled into the Lite models. This difference alone, showing the care that goes into GS1, is worth a lot.
Originally Posted by The Monkey Finally, with regard to "what would happen if some no name manufacturer came along and tried to do that," there are plenty of well-known manufacturers that engage in such tactics as you describe, as well as other, more devious tactics that actually are unethical.p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alai /img/forum/go_quote.gif Logitech, Razer's audio department, Bose, Creative, etc?
I'll accuse Sennheiser ( marketing the PC350 as a gaming headset when it's nothing more than a glorified VOIP headset with piss-all soundstage + the G4ME versions of headphones and difference in prices for the same exact thing) and Denon (got $500 ethernet cable?) of the same.
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Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find the amazing little Millet Starving Student amp (~ $90-150 for mine) will take on many much more expensive amps when using low impedance Grado/ Alessandros. I like the Millet SS slightly better than the Mapletree Ear+ and noticeably better than Woo 6 stock and Headamp GS-1 I owned using Grados. The Millet SS also drives Grados with more authority and noticeably better sound quality than the RSA Raptor, IMO, which is $1200 amp. The Mapletree Ear+ is always recommended for its Grado synergy and the GS-1 was originally designed with the Grados in mind. While both the Ear+ and GS-1 do a fine job with Grados the Millet SS is just more to my liking. The Millet SS even does my Ortodynamics justice .... but unfortunately falls on its face with high impedance Senns.
Mine cost $60, but I don't really have anything to compare it too since my only experience with other quality home amps is at meets.
It amazes me that it can drive Grados without making your ears bleed. I barely get past 9 o'clock with any of my cans and they're all harder to drive than Grados.
If you consider the fact that independent jewelry makers (the kind you meet at state fairs) typically charge 5x to 10x parts cost plus labor for their products, I can't say that I'm surprised that boutique headphone amps have the pricing structure as they do. If you think you can build a better amp and sell it for cheaper than what's available on the market, built it and sell it.
Originally Posted by atbglenn /img/forum/go_quote.gif No amp is worth the sum of individual parts, but the RA-1 is an extreme case. I totally agree with Jamato
Would you pay $450 for this??
That for 450US vs this DIY amp (Peter Smith design kit from Jaycar) for a total cost* of around 150US includes PSU and transformer and HDAM module.
*Please note the parts for the Jaycar amp are 95% my own choosing over the supplied stock parts. It uses a audio-gd PSU and discrete module (Moon), It sounds great and will easily drive any can from 8 ohm (yep...8 ohm with a slight mod ) to 300+ ohms. Preamp/buffer/Volume pot duties are handled by a heavily modified Adcom GFP-750 (has passive and active modes) although a hi quality Alps or DACT clone (passive) can be used at the L/R inputs.
This post is just a small example of the huge gulf in value and build quality DIY/Kit vs (some) Brand Name finished gear can illustrate.
Which amp would you guys rather have ?
MF X-PSU is another high cost rip off. It's simply a generic toroidal transformer in a fancy case...nothing else ).
Ok, so I'm blind. Just noticed that there's trimpots on the Lite that aren't on the GS1. The GS1 must as you said get the pick of the transistor litter. It's not that bad of a deal then...it seems likely that the power supply costs more to build than the amp section, too...it has a lot going on. The Lite is a good value though, its amp section is nice. But yeah that hand matching to where it doesn't even need trimpots is impressive...
Peete, that's a pretty vicious looking amp you're showing the internals too...is it yours? Will it ever go into a case?
The XPSU is probably a horrible deal and it costs a fortune, although when it comes to PSUs it's hard not to beat a wall wart. That's why I ordered my sigma-11, and I think it'll be the most power supply that $200 can buy without me building it myself.
Scooter....it's a bare bones setup at this point. I don't have a chassis for it yet since what I want is more money than the entire amp costs ....sigh. I'm trying to find something a little less costly that will accommodate everything and still have a little curb appeal.
Originally Posted by atbglenn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Peete,
There's no question what amp I'd rather have. The Jaycar of course. Even if the Grado RA-1 listed for $100, I wouldn't buy it.
How Grado can charge 450US for it is astonishing IMO. The Jaycar kit is no slouch using it's stock parts either (for 25US it's an amazing deal no matter how you slice it).
Yeah, it sucks when your design is so clever and well priced that it costs more to case it than to build it...Surely there are some affordable enclosures out there, but I'm guessing you want a thick and sexy aluminum one to do it justice. I have no idea what the M3 case costs, but it's probably a little too small - it could handle either a sizeable amp's guts but no power supply (m3) or a small amp with a little internal power supply.
Just remember that adding the case alone will make it go from sounding like a $1000 amp, to sounding like a $2000 amp
Originally Posted by goorackerelite /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why is it in every review of low end amps, theres always that lines that says " this amp easily matches other models that cost 2x as much!!!" ?
I'd like to know the names of the unfortunate amps that fall flat to amps that cost 1/2 or 1/3 less
the unfortunate amp in mind would be the Ray Samuels amps.
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