[Jmask5]

@AnakChan thanks for the info. I wish it were possible to listen to these headphones here in Toronto. Hopefully I can make it out to Japan next year where it readily available at multiple stores. Really looking forward to it.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I hear that the Lambda's need a dust cover because of the sensitivity of the driver to dust. To the owner do you make something yourselves or buy something?

 

[AnakChan]

@AnakChan thanks for the info. I wish it were possible to listen to these headphones here in Toronto. Hopefully I can make it out to Japan next year where it readily available at multiple stores. Really looking forward to it.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I hear that the Lambda's need a dust cover because of the sensitivity of the driver to dust. To the owner do you make something yourselves or buy something?

Hmmm, if I'm not mistaken drivers do already have dust covers however those dust covers should be cleaned too - I went to Stax last Friday to have my SR-009 cleaned and earpads/headpad changed. I've not found a headphone cover yet so just using a plastic bag - it's gotta fit over the Woo Audio dual headphone stand. My SR-007Mk1 sits in its carry case.

 

[mulveling]

I think the L700 scales up quite nicely to Carbon/BHSE.
And as I know Purk will agree, we find the Mjolnir Mini KGSShv's sound to be pretty heavily in favor of the 007 over 009 (007 Mk I in my case). If you pair it with a 009 you'd better have ears of steel. It does pretty awesome things for the 007 though; probably the best choice there short of going for a Carbon.

I didn't hear my L700 with the mini, but my worry is that it would go more the way of the 009 there.

 

[AnakChan]

@JimL11, I've just sent off a mail to Stax to check on this. I have little doubt that the L700 is using the same membrane material as the SR-009 however I'm thinking the thickness is different (as is the SR-007Mk2 being different from the SR-009 too).

Just to follow up on this, I got a reply back from Stax. Unfortunately I don't have numbers but what I did get :-

The SR-009 is the thinnest between 1-2 microns, then the SR-L700 next (but thickness not mentioned), and finally the SR-007Mk2 is the thickest of the 3. I'm confirming if all 3 are the same material (I suspect) so, and I'm also asking if all have the same tension but don't know if I'll get an answer to these followup questions.

 

[Pahani]

Well, I can't compare to the Omega series.....but I am very satisfied with my L700 so far Plus I picked my pair up used for a good discount vs new, so price/performance is even better.

 

[JimL11]

Just to follow up on this, I got a reply back from Stax. Unfortunately I don't have numbers but what I did get :-

The SR-009 is the thinnest between 1-2 microns, then the SR-L700 next (but thickness not mentioned), and finally the SR-007Mk2 is the thickest of the 3. I'm confirming if all 3 are the same material (I suspect) so, and I'm also asking if all have the same tension but don't know if I'll get an answer to these followup questions.

Good point, AnakChan. Pretty sure that the SR-009 and SR-L700 have the same material, but looking at reviews, etc., they don't actually mention the thickness for the L700. However, I believe the SR-007 Mk2 membrane is a different material, and the SR-009 uses a different material that allows for the thinner membrane. I could be wrong.

 

[arnaud]

However, I believe the SR-007 Mk2 membrane is a different material, and the SR-009 uses a different material that allows for the thinner membrane. I could be wrong.

That sounds right, hard to believe Stax would have changed the material of the 007 since because they advertised the 009 (and Latest lambdas) as new plastics.

Given what diy people like @chinsettawong achieve with Mylar film (another example is the Orpheus clone that @n3rdling put together), I am thinking the membrane material must be a rather subtle parameter in a chain of more important aspects affecting the overall sound. Ear pads, housing and driver geometry, stator thickness and perforated area are more relevant than the membrane material I would think.

Also, rather than actual tension level of a given model, the loaded (can't really say sealed give some of the ported designs, and most others leaky) resonance frequency is the relevant parameter which is typically visible in measurements, see Inner-Fidelity plots for example:
- L300 has a couple of resonances at 50-60Hz and 100Hz with 12dB/octave roll off below that which seems to point to ported design at least very leaky pads?
- SR009 has a blip at 60Hz without roll off which point to sealed design with an foam+leather ear pad

Even the foam in the ear pad plays an important role in this first resonance (see my previous simulations using Finite Element analysis) so it's really more than just membrane material and tensioning (manufacturers don't want to say that too loud as they will make you believe all the magic resides in the transducer...).

My 2cts that is. Oh, and I quite liked the L700 and Stax tube amps , in agreement with @Ali-Pacha on that one.

Cheers,
Arnaud

 

[tigon_ridge]

I'm very inclined to agree that the membrane itself is about as good as it can be, until the technological leap towards graphene is taken. The stators alone are the single most major source of resonance interference. This problem most likely won't be alleviated, until we find something better than copper. I'm thinking maybe thick layers of graphene reinforced with carbon fiber.

I visited chinsettawong's thread many years ago. Didn't he use some sort of anti-static spray or gel to coat his mylar? Fascinating stuff.

 

[Zoide]

[Reposting below for better visibility]

 

[arnaud]

I'm very inclined to agree that the membrane itself is about as good as it can be, until the technological leap towards graphene is taken. The stators alone are the single most major source of resonance interference. This problem most likely won't be alleviated, until we find something better than copper. I'm thinking maybe thick layers of graphene reinforced with carbon fiber.

I visited chinsettawong's thread many years ago. Didn't he use some sort of anti-static spray or gel to coat his mylar? Fascinating stuff.

You may want to revisit that thread if you believe a conductive material like graphene would work as a membrane in present fixed bias configuration (issue with charges migration) . Indeed Mylar by itself won't get you any sound either (it needs to be charged...)

Now graphene for the stators is another story but how far away is that. I recall these news about the lab making a tiny estat transducer out of graphene but there was never much details.
Carbon fiber reinforced graphene? You mean graphene reinforced carbon fiber perhaps lol? Correct me if I am wrong but graphene should be way stronger than interlaced carbon fiber sheets.

Cheers,
Arnaud

 

[tigon_ridge]

I might have a look. Charge migration is a term I haven't come across before. If it means charge moving from one plate of a capacitor across the opposite plate, I always thought that would only be an issue in humid conditions, or when you really ramp up the volume and a low bass note hits. It might be prudent to coat the stators with an insulating material to help deal with that.

I'm thinking graphene should be the core material, as properly tensioned graphene might be reasonably stiff, so you might not need much carbon fiber at all, although carbon fiber is much stiffer and cheaper anyway. Both conduct current, with graphene being the better. I've never seen either material being weaved in such a way as to become a thin grating material, and I can imagine the process to be extremely intricate and expensive.

I'm not sure what current grating material is being used. Must be just plain copper. Perhaps copper plated steel alloy could work. Regardless, to minimize resonance, the material has to have minimal area and thickness without sacrificing too much lateral stiffness.

 

[JimL11]

I might have a look. Charge migration is a term I haven't come across before. If it means charge moving from one plate of a capacitor across the opposite plate, I always thought that would only be an issue in humid conditions, or when you really ramp up the volume and a low bass note hits. It might be prudent to coat the stators with an insulating material to help deal with that.

I'm thinking graphene should be the core material, as properly tensioned graphene might be reasonably stiff, so you might not need much carbon fiber at all, although carbon fiber is much stiffer and cheaper anyway. Both conduct current, with graphene being the better. I've never seen either material being weaved in such a way as to become a thin grating material, and I can imagine the process to be extremely intricate and expensive.

I'm not sure what current grating material is being used. Must be just plain copper. Perhaps copper plated steel alloy could work. Regardless, to minimize resonance, the material has to have minimal area and thickness without sacrificing too much lateral stiffness.

Um, no.

First of all, graphene IS carbon, so what is the point of using carbon fiber as a reinforcer? In fact you don't want the diaphragm to be stiff - for example, electrostatic speakers use something similar to Saran wrap - notice how stiff that is?

Second, you don't want a conductive material for the diaphragm, because as the diaphragm moves, the charge on it will shift to towards the point on the diaphragm nearest the stator plates (charge migration), causing the diaphragm to move unevenly, resulting in increased distortion. You want the charge to remain where it is so that the diaphragm moves uniformly. This is something that is basic to electrostatic headphone and speaker operation. It is also the reason that electrostatic speakers and headphones don't have a metal diaphragm. Metal conducts very well, and is also stiff. Completely wrong for an electrostatic. The early Quad electrostatic speaker went to extremes, using a diaphragm coating that was such high resistance that it took a while for it to charge up.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Um, no.

First of all, graphene IS carbon, so what is the point of using carbon fiber as a reinforcer? In fact you don't want the diaphragm to be stiff - for example, electrostatic speakers use something similar to Saran wrap - notice how stiff that is?

Second, you don't want a conductive material for the diaphragm, because as the diaphragm moves, the charge on it will shift to towards the point on the diaphragm nearest the stator plates (charge migration), causing the diaphragm to move unevenly, resulting in increased distortion. You want the charge to remain where it is so that the diaphragm moves uniformly. This is something that is basic to electrostatic headphone and speaker operation. It is also the reason that electrostatic speakers and headphones don't have a metal diaphragm. Metal conducts very well, and is also stiff. Completely wrong for an electrostatic. The early Quad electrostatic speaker went to extremes, using a diaphragm coating that was such high resistance that it took a while for it to charge up.

Graphene and carbon fiber have very different physical properties. Graphene is very flexible, where carbon fiber is stiff. I wasn't referring to the diaphragm membrane when talking about stiffness. It's the stators that need to be laterally stiff to minimize their movement. Apparently, aluminum is currently one of the top choices for its combination of conductivity and strength.

Indeed the membrane shouldn't be conductive as a whole. It should ideally take a charge while still be flexible and strong. Graphene fulfills the latter two requirements perfectly, but I was thinking perhaps it could be coated with something insulating anti-static material that will take a charge. My idea might not pan out afterall for the membrane, since graphene conducts electricity so well; that charge migration might be too wild to contain.

But anyway, now I'm veering too far from the topic.I was initially trying to relate the topic of material science to how the L700 might square off with the 007, since they're supposedly a generation apart in Stax's earspeakers development.

 

[Zoide]

IMHO, I think comparatively L500 may better for more energetic music. It is more "fun". Not everyone likes a HD800 diffused presentation for all their music.
L700 is clearer and slightly wider and deeper soundstage, may be "better" (than L500) for other genres eg jazz, orchestral (?).
I wanted to pick the L700, its technically good, but the bass was lacking weight slightly and a little loose, that gave me pause. I did find the bass on L500 more satisfying for my needs. If L700 had L500's bass body, I would have picked L700 without hesitation, period. That's the Archille's heel, sigh, choices choices choices.

Frankly, if I were to pick either of these two headphones, I would be happy. Coming from dynamic and planars, these stats sound special. L500 and L700 sound like siblings with slightly different tuning.
L500 being half the price of L700, is a bargain. I am sure the difference in sound is not 50%.
I would pick one and be very happy.

The L300 is even cheaper than the L500. Would the same logic of being more forgiving and "fun" than the more expensive models apply? Thanks

I listened to the 007s months ago between the old Lambdas, and thought my HE500s at the time were so much better than the old Lambdas. The exact same 007s blew them away; was like nothing ive heard before. However the new Lambda L300s are giving me the same impression i got from the 007s, minus the "the sound sounds like its coming out of nowhere" kind of feeling (kind of how i felt when i had the HE6). That's why im wondering. I read a comparison vs HE6, an 800, and the 007, and favoured the 007. Was just wondering.

Could you please elaborate on how the HE500 compare to the L300? Do you think the latter would be an upgrade? Or would it be necessary to move up to the L500/L700? Thanks

Now, regarding the L500, I've decided to part with them and pursue more forgiving headphones. The music I listen to just don't accommodate that well to extreme detail and accuracy

Perhaps something like the L300 would be better for you? (see my other questions above)

 

[conquerator2]

I still think the L300 is better than the HE500 in technical prowess. I should have gone for that,