[Audiowood]

Quote:

- My UERM full customs sound virtually identical to their demo equivalent, differences are very slight and insignificant.
 
 

 
Thanks for the feedback, I was wondering that too.. So custom and universal are the same
 
Ok, I just order the 1+2=3 from Gavin.
 
a note here from Gavin that it is now made to order and take 4-6 weeks. 
 
I am taking a leap of faith base on what I read that I will like it. The last review was the last I could take watching from afar..
 
..and that anakchan picture with nature was too pretty to resist.. 

 

[james444]

Quote:

Ahh so do you feel the differences people are perceiving are in large due to placebo or just the tips not fitting properly?

 
Well, based on a single sample, that would be a bold claim. But since you asked, here's my personal opinion: very few people actually have the chance to audition demos and full customs side by side. Usually you try the demos and get your customs weeks later at best, so your comparison will be based on memory. When I got my UERM customs, I had the feeling that they sounded a bit better than the demos I had heard, but now it looks like that was probably due to expectation bias.
 
I know it's being claimed by some that bone conduction plays an important role with full customs, especially regarding bass. I can't confirm that from my personal experience. If anything, I've learned that bone conduction works both ways and my footfall noise gets annoyingly more amplified via my full customs' acrylic shells than the demo unit's silicon tips. Add to that the fact that the demos are easier to put on and take out and it's a no-brainer which one I'd prefer when I'm on the move.
 
Bottom line (from my admittedly limited experience), I don't think that full customs are inherently superior to their universal counterparts and I'd truly appreciate if more manufacturers would offer universal versions of their customs.

 

[AnakChan]

Quote:

 
Well, based on a single sample, that would be a bold claim. But since you asked, here's my personal opinion: very few people actually have the chance to audition demos and full customs side by side. Usually you try the demos and get your customs weeks later at best, so your comparison will be based on memory. When I got my UERM customs, I had the feeling that they sounded a bit better than the demos I had heard, but now it looks like that was probably due to expectation bias.
 
I know it's being claimed by some that bone conduction plays an important role with full customs, especially regarding bass. I can't confirm that from my personal experience. If anything, I've learned that bone conduction works both ways and my footfall noise gets annoyingly more amplified via my full customs' acrylic shells than the demo unit's silicon tips. Add to that the fact that the demos are easier to put on and take out and it's a no-brainer which one I'd prefer when I'm on the move.
 
Bottom line (from my admittedly limited experience), I don't think that full customs are inherently superior to their universal counterparts and I'd truly appreciate if more manufacturers would offer universal versions of their customs.

 
You've raised an interesting point. Usually when I hear of bone conduction, it's usually with full-sized circumaural cans (not so much through the pads). However never thought about it through CIEMs and the acrylic contact. Kinda makes sense though somehow since I do have an Invisio M3 tactical headset and it doesn't really take much contact to "conduct". Similarly with TCI's TABC (Tactical Assault Bone Conduction) headset, they work well.
 
I don't know if bone conduction play an important role with full customs but I'm sure they play some part that requires further investigation.
 
Edit: Anyway this is kinda getting OT. Happy to continue this in PM or Sound Science.

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

 
Well, based on a single sample, that would be a bold claim. But since you asked, here's my personal opinion: very few people actually have the chance to audition demos and full customs side by side. Usually you try the demos and get your customs weeks later at best, so your comparison will be based on memory. When I got my UERM customs, I had the feeling that they sounded a bit better than the demos I had heard, but now it looks like that was probably due to expectation bias.
 
I know it's being claimed by some that bone conduction plays an important role with full customs, especially regarding bass. I can't confirm that from my personal experience. If anything, I've learned that bone conduction works both ways and my footfall noise gets annoyingly more amplified via my full customs' acrylic shells than the demo unit's silicon tips. Add to that the fact that the demos are easier to put on and take out and it's a no-brainer which one I'd prefer when I'm on the move.
 
Bottom line (from my admittedly limited experience), I don't think that full customs are inherently superior to their universal counterparts and I'd truly appreciate if more manufacturers would offer universal versions of their customs.

I think the bone conduction is WAY overstated. Dual woofer IEMs even cancell out their vibrations.

 

[tomscy2000]

I believe the main reason for the 1Plus2 not being offered as a custom-fit in the end was because of the fact that it would have to be tuned for tubing. Acoustic tubing has one major challenge over a chambered system: quarter-wave resonances due to standing waves that reflect in a semi-closed system that need to be tamed (or in some cases, amplified). Tubing is normally chambered at a constant diameter, which means that sound waves are neither compressed nor distorted. However, it's often a goal of acoustic engineers to use bell/horn-like designs or Helmholtz resonators to modify the frequency response of a transducer system. The 1Plus2 was designed with that open, reverse horn system in mind. It would take a lot more effort to match the same type of response with acoustic tubing; it's not impossible, just takes a lot longer, and probably a lot more thinking (about tube diameters and lengths).
 
Regarding the differences between demos and custom-fits, I see the number one difference between comparisons is improper wear (leading to lessened isolation and/or insertion depth), and poor tip selection. Demos are just more difficult to obtain a proper fit, because they're not built for your ear precisely. The effect of silicone tips plays a factor in resonance damping and amplification in the upper frequencies, but can be minimized with the proper choice of tips, by using tips that don't protrude beyond the opening and that don't create a reverse horn effect (i.e. needs to be wide enough).
 
Does bone conduction factor in? Perhaps. I used to think it was a lot more important, but now that I have a far better understanding of the way acoustics work in the ear, I have to agree with James in that bone conduction plays a much larger factor in the microphonic effect. Large area sound waves hit the skin of the head, and concentrate toward areas such as the mastoid process, sending sound waves up toward the bony part of the ear canal. Back reflections emanating from the exit ports of a custom-fit or universal-fit IEM contribute relatively little. If anything, bone conduction plays a process in the occlusion effect more (though the occlusion effect technically also has to do with the salpingopalatine fold and the resonance of the eustachian tube).

 

[Mimouille]

Great reading thanks guys ! Just from a more simple perspective. Maybe the Miracle demos sound like the actual customs and some people juat do not like them. They have quite a specific signature. As far as the 1plus2, maybe I am just repeating what Tomscy.said in a dumber way as I did not grasp everything, but from what I understand, going full custom involves tubes like Tom said, and adding tubes diminishes the immediacy of sound Gavin was aiming at.

 

[Audiowood]

Very interesting.. thanks for all these articles. Always something to read at Headfi.

 

[lee730]

Quote:

 
Well, based on a single sample, that would be a bold claim. But since you asked, here's my personal opinion: very few people actually have the chance to audition demos and full customs side by side. Usually you try the demos and get your customs weeks later at best, so your comparison will be based on memory. When I got my UERM customs, I had the feeling that they sounded a bit better than the demos I had heard, but now it looks like that was probably due to expectation bias.
 
I know it's being claimed by some that bone conduction plays an important role with full customs, especially regarding bass. I can't confirm that from my personal experience. If anything, I've learned that bone conduction works both ways and my footfall noise gets annoyingly more amplified via my full customs' acrylic shells than the demo unit's silicon tips. Add to that the fact that the demos are easier to put on and take out and it's a no-brainer which one I'd prefer when I'm on the move.
 
Bottom line (from my admittedly limited experience), I don't think that full customs are inherently superior to their universal counterparts and I'd truly appreciate if more manufacturers would offer universal versions of their customs.

 
What I find irritating about customs is hearing my own heartbeat (normally when lying down) and hearing vibrations throughout the house (air conditioning, room mates bass from stereo lol).

 

[james444]

Quote:

What I find irritating about customs is hearing my own heartbeat (normally when lying down) and hearing vibrations throughout the house (air conditioning, room mates bass from stereo lol).

 
Yep, that's based on the same principles as footfall noise: microphonics and the occlusion effect.
 
Quote:

If anything, bone conduction plays a process in the occlusion effect more (though the occlusion effect technically also has to do with the salpingopalatine fold and the resonance of the eustachian tube).

 

[Swimsonny]

I have just received a 1plus2 along with the silver cable.
 
Just plugged them into the HiFi ET MA9 too start off with. Lovely timbre and spaciousness and the bass really is wowing me, i mean big time! Now coming in to these i knew they were to have a U shape but i am so far just a little bit unsure about the midrange. It is rather thin and i am so far not sure how to process this as i am really not used to it right off the back of my Lear LCM-5. Midrange has great resolution and detail retrieval for sure but they are just a bit weirdly thin, its quite strange. It also changes from track to track, with The XX everything is a lot fuller yet with The Beatles or Def Leppard it is very brittle and some are not so extreme on either side of the scale. I must say that the balance in the mids is just great and everything sounds very natural and true! That being said i have listened only for about half an hour so i am completely in new toy world. Back to the bass though and it delivers depth power and speed and does not even feel slightly over baring or too much, i really am impressed! 

 

[goodvibes]

To my mind, everything sounding different is a not a bad thing. Run them in a bit, I'm sure they'll come around.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

I have just received a 1plus2 along with the silver cable.
 
Just plugged them into the HiFi ET MA9 too start off with. Lovely timbre and spaciousness and the bass really is wowing me, i mean big time! Now coming in to these i knew they were to have a U shape but i am so far just a little bit unsure about the midrange. It is rather thin and i am so far not sure how to process this as i am really not used to it right off the back of my Lear LCM-5. Midrange has great resolution and detail retrieval for sure but they are just a bit weirdly thin, its quite strange. It also changes from track to track, with The XX everything is a lot fuller yet with The Beatles or Def Leppard it is very brittle and some are not so extreme on either side of the scale. I must say that the balance in the mids is just great and everything sounds very natural and true! That being said i have listened only for about half an hour so i am completely in new toy world. Back to the bass though and it delivers depth power and speed and does not even feel slightly over baring or too much, i really am impressed! 

 
Sounds like what most people used to traditional IEM tuning think (including me) when they hear the 1Plus2... you'll get used to it. Just wait.

 

[lee730]

Quote:

I have just received a 1plus2 along with the silver cable.
 
Just plugged them into the HiFi ET MA9 too start off with. Lovely timbre and spaciousness and the bass really is wowing me, i mean big time! Now coming in to these i knew they were to have a U shape but i am so far just a little bit unsure about the midrange. It is rather thin and i am so far not sure how to process this as i am really not used to it right off the back of my Lear LCM-5. Midrange has great resolution and detail retrieval for sure but they are just a bit weirdly thin, its quite strange. It also changes from track to track, with The XX everything is a lot fuller yet with The Beatles or Def Leppard it is very brittle and some are not so extreme on either side of the scale. I must say that the balance in the mids is just great and everything sounds very natural and true! That being said i have listened only for about half an hour so i am completely in new toy world. Back to the bass though and it delivers depth power and speed and does not even feel slightly over baring or too much, i really am impressed! 

Nice impressions . So you are demoing them?

 

[Swimsonny]

Quote:

To my mind, everything sounding different is a not a bad thing. Run them in a bit, I'm sure they'll come around.

Oh no and i tried to get across in the post that i am not being negative etc and that these are very initial impressions. It seems that most people say they need a bit of burn in and these are brand new so i have a feeling i should have a very pleasant journey with them!
Quote:

Sounds like what most people used to traditional IEM tuning think (including me) when they hear the 1Plus2... you'll get used to it. Just wait.

Yes i have been talking to Gavin about them compared to tradition IEMs and the whole background and aims for them. Just trying to get in the right mind set, i am sure you know what i mean
Quote:

Nice impressions . So you are demoing them?

Thanks! I just received a review unit from Gavin so i have them in my house and will do for roughly the next month so plenty of time to get used to their way of doing things!

 

[toads]

i've got a new set after warranty repair and reshell...these things IMO require significant burn-in...
 
at least 150hrs and double that for the silver cable, which i feel is the main culprit for some of the unagreeable sounds currently emitted; ie thin bottom end, recessed mids, and scratchy, bright, hard highs...
 
bear in mind this is coming from a Merlin run thru a dhc copper litz....soooo smooth and rich...great extension in either direction...
 
must...have...patience...

 
edit: oh...i've ordered a balanced silver/gold from CH cables to run thru my upcoming rwak100/international combo...i'm hoping for MAGIC...