[Monsterzero]

In terms of the quality of being forgiving of bad production, would you say this is a fair ranking (from best to worst)

Atrium>Auteur>Caldera>VO=VC

Pretty much, though I'd put Atticus in front of em all. I don't have enough experience with the Eikon or Aeolus to rank them

 

[MetalVGAnime]

Thanks guys for all the detailed replies.

That's a bit of a tough choice and a compromise I guess as both a harder wood and a softer wood would each have their pros and cons. As I do think that I would value a more "natural" and slightly more forgiving sound over incisiveness, bass slam/impact and outright speed, I would probably lean towards a softer wood for the VO if I do decide to go for that one over the Atrium.

I guess it was a little easier to decide when the Verite was considered the TOTL or flagship in the ZMF lineup but now that the Atrium as well as the Caldera is available there's even more options and its a little more difficult to decide which one to possibly try next though. For me personally it would be between a softer wood VO or the Atrium for now as I'm not a big fan of planars in general even though I'm sure the Caldera is a fantastic headphone for many.

 

[ItHz]

I listen to a a lot of modern rock and electronic music that isn't mastered particularly well (too much compression, poorer dynamic range or DR) so might a harder or softer wood be considered more forgiving with this sort of music as far as the VO is concerned or is there probably not really that much of a difference?

My Blackwood VO is my favorite for electronic and pop music because of its combination of speed and soundstaging.

For those who have listened to both a harder and softer wood VO, which one might sound more "natural" or "realistic" with female vocals and instruments if those terms make sense.

Haven't gotten to compare VOs of different hardnesses, but I have listened to a harder VC (Ironwood) and softer VC (Sapele) side-by-side. To me the differences attributable to the wood were very, very small. The effect of swapping pads and adjusting the headband was far more noticeable. Zach advises simply choosing a wood that looks good to you.

 

[shwnwllms]

Thanks guys for all the detailed replies.

That's a bit of a tough choice and a compromise…

Gotta catch ‘em all

 

[AudioDuck]

Pretty much, though I'd put Atticus in front of em all. I don't have enough experience with the Eikon or Aeolus to rank them

I would rank the Eikon as more forgiving of poor production than the VC. It’s about on par with the Auteur (as it uses the same driver type), but pad type (and cabling, in my view) can influence this as well.

I find my Auteur to be a little less forgiving than my Eikon with current pads (Eikon: Eikon suede, Auteur: Eikon lamb perf) and cabling (see sig below).

 

[sfoclt]

Gotta catch ‘em all

 

[AudioDuck]

Looks like you need to update your signature to include that gem on the right!

 

[sfoclt]

Looks like you need to update your signature to include that gem on the right!

It's a loaner, so I have to convince @zach915m to make me a matching macassar ebony one to match my others. I have another VC at the office too.

 

[goldwerger]

I am most interested to know how much more resolving and holographic (with regards to staging or imaging) either the Verite or Atrium would be compared to the Auteur and if either one might be a good complementary headphone to the OG that I currently own.

To my ears, the VO is more resolving, and the Atrium is more holographic. I know you said you're not a basshead, but to your kind of music I think the VO would be excellent; the bass is simply fast and exact. I love my blackwood, but frankly just get whichever wood looks nicest and pad options give you much bigger variance beyond.

 

[johnnypaddock]

This has probably been asked many times before already but I'm trying to decide between maybe getting a VO in a softer wood or a harder wood and am curious to know if there might be a general consensus on whether there is a preference for a harder or softer wood with this particular ZMF.

I think people have mentioned that the softer woods would have a longer decay with notes and have less slam or impact in the bass (also not as tight) and perhaps a bit smaller or less wide stage compared to the harder woods and that this difference may of may not be very perceptible for some people. Would there also be perhaps more cup reverb or wood play involved with a softer wood?

For those who have listened to both a harder and softer wood VO, which one might sound more "natural" or "realistic" with female vocals and instruments if those terms make sense. I already have an Auteur with a middle of the road hardness ( Janka rating ~ 1900) which I think is very good with most genres of music and the main appeal for me with getting that ZMF originally was because it was considered to have the most neutral sound signature as well as having the most natural or realistic timbre out of the ZMF lineup.

I listen to a a lot of modern rock and electronic music that isn't mastered particularly well (too much compression, poorer dynamic range or DR) so might a harder or softer wood be considered more forgiving with this sort of music as far as the VO is concerned or is there probably not really that much of a difference?

Might the Atrium be a better choice for someone like me who isn't a basshead and doesn't prefer a particularly dark or warm sound signature?

I'd echo everything @Pharmaboy said regarding soft vs. hard wood for the VO, as it's exactly how I hear the differences. They are somewhat subtle but very noticeable if you're comparing wood from two extreme ends of the spectrum. They are both fantastic and I easily see why people would prefer one over the other, but my preference is the softer wood.

Whether the VO leans towards warm vs. neutral certainly depends more on pad selection than wood. In my experience the Universe pads tilt the VO towards the warm/dark end, where BE2 pads are much more neutral. In fact, I'd say that VO with lambskin BE2 pads might be the most neutral presentation I've heard in a ZMF heaphone.

I think I agree with @Monsterzero that the Atrium sounds the most "natural" when it comes to timbre. To me it's an evolution that improves on most aspects of the Auteur, although I could understand people keeping and enjoying both.

Thanks guys for all the detailed replies.

That's a bit of a tough choice and a compromise I guess as both a harder wood and a softer wood would each have their pros and cons. As I do think that I would value a more "natural" and slightly more forgiving sound over incisiveness, bass slam/impact and outright speed, I would probably lean towards a softer wood for the VO if I do decide to go for that one over the Atrium.

I guess it was a little easier to decide when the Verite was considered the TOTL or flagship in the ZMF lineup but now that the Atrium as well as the Caldera is available there's even more options and its a little more difficult to decide which one to possibly try next though. For me personally it would be between a softer wood VO or the Atrium for now as I'm not a big fan of planars in general even though I'm sure the Caldera is a fantastic headphone for many.

I haven't yet heard the Caldera so I can't speak to that, but I personally don't consider the VO to be any less of a "flagship" than the Atrium. I love the Atrium but if I had to choose between the two I'd go with the VO, no question about it. The speed, resolution and dynamics are better and I slightly prefer the soundstage. With BE2 pads it's holographic and precise, and with the Universe pads it's 3D magic.

 

[MetalVGAnime]

Whether the VO leans towards warm vs. neutral certainly depends more on pad selection than wood. In my experience the Universe pads tilt the VO towards the warm/dark end, where BE2 pads are much more neutral. In fact, I'd say that VO with lambskin BE2 pads might be the most neutral presentation I've heard in a ZMF heaphone.

To my ears, the VO is more resolving, and the Atrium is more holographic. I know you said you're not a basshead, but to your kind of music I think the VO would be excellent; the bass is simply fast and exact. I love my blackwood, but frankly just get whichever wood looks nicest and pad options give you much bigger variance beyond.

Haven't gotten to compare VOs of different hardnesses, but I have listened to a harder VC (Ironwood) and softer VC (Sapele) side-by-side. To me the differences attributable to the wood were very, very small. The effect of swapping pads and adjusting the headband was far more noticeable. Zach advises simply choosing a wood that looks good to you.

Thanks for all the replies. Its reassuring to hear that the sonic differences between a harder and softer wood won't be all that significant compared with pad rolling. I guess I'd sort of neglected that aspect as I haven't been pad rolling my Auteurs much these days (just sticking with the Auteur perforated suedes mainly for the more neutral sound signature though I also have the Eikon perforated pads in suede which might be a tad more comfortable but just loses a bit of air/sparkle though I can appreciate the wider stage at the slight expense of imaging precision).

I'll have to consider getting the BE2 pads in lambskin though I've been looking to get a set with the Universe and BE2 suede pads as those are supposed to be more neutral than lambskin according to the official ZMF pad rolling guide.

I haven't yet heard the Caldera so I can't speak to that, but I personally don't consider the VO to be any less of a "flagship" than the Atrium. I love the Atrium but if I had to choose between the two I'd go with the VO, no question about it. The speed, resolution and dynamics are better and I slightly prefer the soundstage. With BE2 pads it's holographic and precise, and with the Universe pads it's 3D magic.

Yeah my original sentence might have been a bit confusing and I wasn't meaning to imply that the Verite was any less a part of ZMF's top tier just that there's now two other really good and interesting options to consider trying in addition to the Verite with the newer Atrium and Caldera.

If I don't decide to get the VO first, it'll most certainly be the Atrium as my next ZMF. Like you and many others have said, they both seem to be really great headphones with very good timbre, staging and resolve that are seemingly a good complement to one another (different enough and excel at different areas and maybe genres of music even though they might both share a similar slightly warm or dark sound signature) which I think is why many people seem to hang on to both of their sets rather than greatly preferring one outright necessarily.

 

[helljudgement]

This has probably been asked many times before already but I'm trying to decide between maybe getting a VO in a softer wood or a harder wood and am curious to know if there might be a general consensus on whether there is a preference for a harder or softer wood with this particular ZMF.

I think people have mentioned that the softer woods would have a longer decay with notes and have less slam or impact in the bass (also not as tight) and perhaps a bit smaller or less wide stage compared to the harder woods and that this difference may of may not be very perceptible for some people. Would there also be perhaps more cup reverb or wood play involved with a softer wood?

For those who have listened to both a harder and softer wood VO, which one might sound more "natural" or "realistic" with female vocals and instruments if those terms make sense. I already have an Auteur with a middle of the road hardness ( Janka rating ~ 1900) which I think is very good with most genres of music and the main appeal for me with getting that ZMF originally was because it was considered to have the most neutral sound signature as well as having the most natural or realistic timbre out of the ZMF lineup.

I listen to a a lot of modern rock and electronic music that isn't mastered particularly well (too much compression, poorer dynamic range or DR) so might a harder or softer wood be considered more forgiving with this sort of music as far as the VO is concerned or is there probably not really that much of a difference?

Might the Atrium be a better choice for someone like me who isn't a basshead and doesn't prefer a particularly dark or warm sound signature?

As mentioned by @johnnypaddock the tonality of VO is more dependent on the choice of pads. I personally use the BE2 perforated lambskin the most as it sounds pretty neutral and doesn't compress the staging as much as the Verite pads. Hard v Soft wood will depend on preference. For the most part if you don't have access to demo both the soft and hard wood in one sitting I'd recommend just getting the one that look best. It really only matters if you have access to try both but it is still undoubtedly a VO sound regardless. Resolution and speed is top notch with great imaging and staging.

Going back and forth between my VO and Atrium, the Atrium does have a more realistic and organic timbre. Atrium renders the drum texture and slam extremely well and is definitely my favorite headphone for rock and one of the best for rendering guitars both acoustics and electric imo. Atrium is definitely more forgiving than the VO when it comes to poorer mastering quality but the VO isn't necessarily going to sound bad. In terms of dynamics they are pretty close but a slight edge to the Atrium for sheer slam. I enjoy hip hop much more on the Atrium than the VO.

I've own the VO for a number of years and the Atrium since release and I still can't quite decide which I'd prefer. Technically the VO is the better performer but the Atrium has something that I can't quite put my finger on. Whether it's the biocell timbre or tonality there's just something that makes it hard to put down. Great flagships but it will likely make choosing between the 2 a nightmare for blind buyers which I would never recommend.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I'd echo everything @Pharmaboy said regarding soft vs. hard wood for the VO, as it's exactly how I hear the differences. They are somewhat subtle but very noticeable if you're comparing wood from two extreme ends of the spectrum. They are both fantastic and I easily see why people would prefer one over the other, but my preference is the softer wood.

Whether the VO leans towards warm vs. neutral certainly depends more on pad selection than wood. In my experience the Universe pads tilt the VO towards the warm/dark end, where BE2 pads are much more neutral. In fact, I'd say that VO with lambskin BE2 pads might be the most neutral presentation I've heard in a ZMF heaphone.

I think I agree with @Monsterzero that the Atrium sounds the most "natural" when it comes to timbre. To me it's an evolution that improves on most aspects of the Auteur, although I could understand people keeping and enjoying both.




I haven't yet heard the Caldera so I can't speak to that, but I personally don't consider the VO to be any less of a "flagship" than the Atrium. I love the Atrium but if I had to choose between the two I'd go with the VO, no question about it. The speed, resolution and dynamics are better and I slightly prefer the soundstage. With BE2 pads it's holographic and precise, and with the Universe pads it's 3D magic.

Solid/perceptive post.

Re VO pads, I always neglect to mention something pertinent: I loved the sound of my VO with stock pads from the first minute and never had any urge to roll pads on this headphone. So that slightly warm tonality that comes with the stock pads is what I always think of in connection with this headphone.

Which pads are used may also help explain some of the divergent comments about the VO being analytical or "ruthless" with poorly recorded music tracks. I don't hear those things at all, ever--but maybe I would if I had different pads on it.

 

[JerseyD]

Which pads are used may also help explain some of the divergent comments about the VO being analytical or "ruthless" with poorly recorded music tracks. I don't hear those things at all, ever--but maybe I would if I had different pads on it.

It is also possible that those who consider the VO ruthless do not have the signal that your system delivers (DACs, amps, etc.). Your chain may be more forgiving before the VO does its thing with the sound.

 

[Pharmaboy]

It is also possible that those who consider the VO ruthless do not have the signal that your system delivers (DACs, amps, etc.). Your chain may be more forgiving before the VO does its thing with the sound.

Another excellent point.

I've assembled this complex desktop system (actually 2 systems in close proximity) over a period of years, always searching for musicality & natural weight in the lower registers, just as I hear IRL music. None of my components qualify as bright, edgy, or forensic-sounding.

(good catch)