ZMF Verite Open
Jun 13, 2021 at 12:37 AM Post #6,451 of 9,518
If I'm to narrow down my choice to Norne Audio, which one of the below options would be better suit the VO (silkwood) -S4 or S3?

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Has anyone had experience with both/any? What's the difference between the S4/S3?

Already sent email to Norne as we speak but I ask you guys in case anyone has experience with the VO/VC.
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 1:31 AM Post #6,452 of 9,518
If I'm to narrow down my choice to Norne Audio, which one of the below options would be better suit the VO (silkwood) -S4 or S3?



Has anyone had experience with both/any? What's the difference between the S4/S3?

Already sent email to Norne as we speak but I ask you guys in case anyone has experience with the VO/VC.
Gawd, at those prices, you could buy a zmf cable and have enough $ left for a solid tube amp. Makes zero sense to me.
 
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Jun 13, 2021 at 1:42 AM Post #6,453 of 9,518
Gawd, at those prices, you could buy a zmf cable and have enough $ left for a solid tube amp. Makes zero sense to me.
I'm a bit unfortunate that the cable length that fits best is 3m, and this additional length can jack up the price.

Here below, you will see even with ZMF's offering, at 3m, the price becomes 1K USD.
1623562892905.png
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 4:09 AM Post #6,454 of 9,518
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Jun 13, 2021 at 4:25 AM Post #6,455 of 9,518
Jun 13, 2021 at 4:32 AM Post #6,456 of 9,518
pure silver @ 10ft of course it costs this much..... understandable
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 6:59 AM Post #6,457 of 9,518
From the manual that comes with the headphones, it said the headphones need around 200hrs of breaking in. Based on you guy's experience, how the headphones changed after breaking in?

Now my pair has around 20-22 hours with BE2 Hybrid Suede/Leather pads, and I must say I'm underwhelmed. I tried both stock ZMF's XLR cable (yet to be broken in) and my Silver Dragon XLR (fully broken in) and with both cables, the headphones sound kinda dull and recessed on both high and low ends, which is miles... miles away from my Utopia (with Dana's LR) / Empy (with SD). Really want to keep them as I love the look and comfort, so I really hope they will improve when I put more hours on them (my system should have decent synergy).

So I will hold of on the purchase of a new cable until I'm sure I want to keep them.
 
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Jun 13, 2021 at 8:58 AM Post #6,458 of 9,518
From the manual that comes with the headphones, it said the headphones need around 200hrs of breaking in. Based on your guy's experience, how the headphones changed after breaking in?

Now my pair has around 20-22 hours with BE2 Hybrid Suede/Leather pads, and I must say I'm underwhelmed. I tried both stock ZMF's XLR cable (yet to be broken in) and my Silver Dragon XLR (fully broken in) and with both cables, the headphones sound kinda dull and recessed on both high and low ends, which is miles... miles away from my Utopia (with Dana's LR) / Empy (with SD). Really want to keep them as I love the look and comfort, so I really hope they will improve when I put more hours on them (my system should have decent synergy).

So I will hold of on the purchase of a new cable until I'm sure I want to keep them.
I think the tuning might not be for you but give it a few more days to see if you acclimatized to the sound. The headphone is tuned with a bit of recession in it's upper mids-treble region and the bass will not be as tight or precise as utopia and these are not things that will go away with burning in or cable swapping. It is one of my favorite headphone partially due to these traits but it is not something that everyone will like and definitely not a headphone I would recommend to blind buy if possible.

Alternatively, you could try swapping out the earpads to something more neutral sounding like the verite pads or the universe pads which is a tad darker sounding but does have a very 3d feel to it's soundstage to see if you'd prefer those. The earpads to me made more of a difference than swapping cables for this headphone and definitely cheaper to swap out.
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 9:42 AM Post #6,459 of 9,518
From the manual that comes with the headphones, it said the headphones need around 200hrs of breaking in. Based on you guy's experience, how the headphones changed after breaking in?

Now my pair has around 20-22 hours with BE2 Hybrid Suede/Leather pads, and I must say I'm underwhelmed. I tried both stock ZMF's XLR cable (yet to be broken in) and my Silver Dragon XLR (fully broken in) and with both cables, the headphones sound kinda dull and recessed on both high and low ends, which is miles... miles away from my Utopia (with Dana's LR) / Empy (with SD). Really want to keep them as I love the look and comfort, so I really hope they will improve when I put more hours on them (my system should have decent synergy).

So I will hold of on the purchase of a new cable until I'm sure I want to keep them.
I think you should burn in a little longer...atleast 100 hours before you make your final call. As with most zmf cans, they can take a little while before they show their true sound signature. That was certainly the case for all 3 of my zmf cans, with the Auteur taking well over 200 hours to sound open and controlled.

Also, may i ask which amp are you using to power the VO? A lot of peeps, including myself prefer OTL tube or non OTL amps with the ZMF. These high impedance headphones really appreciate a good tube amp.

Also, one last thing, you might wanna give the Universe lambskin perf or universe hybrid perf pads. The hybrid pads will lessen the bass a little and bring out the mids a few dbs. that might help you get the veil off your cans.
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 10:01 AM Post #6,460 of 9,518
I think the tuning might not be for you but give it a few more days to see if you acclimatized to the sound. The headphone is tuned with a bit of recession in it's upper mids-treble region and the bass will not be as tight or precise as utopia and these are not things that will go away with burning in or cable swapping. It is one of my favorite headphone partially due to these traits but it is not something that everyone will like and definitely not a headphone I would recommend to blind buy if possible.

Alternatively, you could try swapping out the earpads to something more neutral sounding like the verite pads or the universe pads which is a tad darker sounding but does have a very 3d feel to it's soundstage to see if you'd prefer those. The earpads to me made more of a difference than swapping cables for this headphone and definitely cheaper to swap out.
I think you should burn in a little longer...atleast 100 hours before you make your final call. As with most zmf cans, they can take a little while before they show their true sound signature. That was certainly the case for all 3 of my zmf cans, with the Auteur taking well over 200 hours to sound open and controlled.

Also, may i ask which amp are you using to power the VO? A lot of peeps, including myself prefer OTL tube or non OTL amps with the ZMF. These high impedance headphones really appreciate a good tube amp.

Also, one last thing, you might wanna give the Universe lambskin perf or universe hybrid perf pads. The hybrid pads will lessen the bass a little and bring out the mids a few dbs. that might help you get the veil off your cans.

Thanks both, for your input!

I did a lot of research before buying this headphones, and from all reviews/comments, I believe this headphones should have the sound that I like.

It's good to hear that breaking it in would help and I will also try swapping pads. Now I have Verite Perf Pads, Universe Lambskin Perf, and BE2 Hybrid Suede/Leather pads (currently installed).

About my amp, it's V281 (not a tube amp), and based on my research, this amp should have more then enough power to drive the VO, and from many people's comments, it also has good synergy with the VO.

I also have a very good/custom made 300B based tube amp but have yet to try it with the VO (have no desk space left).
 
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Jun 13, 2021 at 10:21 AM Post #6,461 of 9,518
Thanks both, for your input!

I did a lot of research before buying this headphones, and from all reviews/comments, I believe this headphones should have the sound that I like.

It's good to hear that breaking it in would help and I will also try swapping pads. Now I have Verite Perf Pads, Universe Lambskin Perf, and BE2 Hybrid Suede/Leather pads (currently installed).

About my amp, it's V281 (not a tube amp), and based on my research, this amp should have more then enough power to drive the VO, and from many people's comments, it also has good synergy with the VO.

I also have a very good/custom made 300B based tube amp but have yet to try it with the VO (have no desk space left). However, I suspect it's not an "OTL" amp. Can you help identify from just the pic below? Tubes are 300B / 274B (can't remember pre-amp tubes and too lazy to go downstairs to have a look).

Amp.jpg
These seem to be using silk transformers purely based on looking at the top of your amp so it's likely transformer coupled. OTL or not should not matter when it comes to good sound. I'm mainly using a dna starlett with my verite and it is one of the best amp I've heard with dynamic driver headphones and it is not an OTL amp. Plug it in and listen to see if you like it.
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 12:43 PM Post #6,462 of 9,518
@PrTv

Be patient and continue to burn your new Verite in. My purpleheat wood Verite took about 400 hours to lose the congested sound it was first producing. Remember the surround, rubber membrane is brand new and needs to ease up to allow the driver to move as the music dictates. Everything will sound more detailed and defined and extended as you continue to use them.

In regards to the V281. That's an outstanding amp. I used to own one. @Pharmaboy who is active here on the forums owns a V281 and pairs it often with his silk wood Verite. As far as I know he really loves the combo. So your amp isn't an issue. I think you just need to really keep at it and keep running a signal through your new Verites. In time it will all improve.
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 12:56 PM Post #6,463 of 9,518
pure silver @ 10ft of course it costs this much..... understandable
Not to mention, the larger gauge on the Norne. Forza’s flagship Noir Hybrid is 26 awg and is a copper and silver configuration vs Norne Silvergarde S3 starts at 21 awg for all silver. Cable thickness gets larger the closer it gets to zero.
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 1:02 PM Post #6,464 of 9,518
I was fortunate enough to be able to compare Verite of different woods one year. So far I've tried 4 different types: silk, cocobolo, ziricote, and pheasantwood. The latter three I was able to hear back-to-back at canjam. My first encounter with Verite was at Upscale Audio in La Verne, CA. Off of memory and the notes I took, first thing I noticed when I heard Silk was its warmth. It was the warmest sounding, and yet the cleanest sounding of the three other headphones I had for comparison at the time: Aeolus, Auteur, and LCD2C. Next thing I noticed was how it had an ability to project crisp images in a 3D-like manner that I haven't heard from other headphones previously. With a little more clockwise turn on the pot, qualities I enjoyed from Auteur and Aeolus were also present. Verite brought the sparkle from Auteur and the fun from Aeolus. Verite's superior detail retrieval to the other headphones was clearly evident at this point and became more apparent the longer I listened. The word I used to describe Verite in my notes was "addicting".

As an aside for those who are interested, I believe I heard the Verite on a Pathos Inpol amp. Regrettably, I could not recall the DAC or streamer it was connected to.

Fast forward to canjam. I had the opportunity to hear Verite in 3 different types of hardwoods. Now, as a disclaimer, I'm the type of person that will seek out "the last 5%", meaning the tiniest changes to the sound can potentially impact my overall experience with something. I'm totally "that guy" when it comes to preferences on woods, cables, pads, amps and DACs to achieve the sound I like (unfortunately, I'm limited by my general lack of funds). Please temper your expectations appropriately as I am critiquing with a microscope (if you will).

Just like Silk, the hardwoods retain the crisp 3D-like imaging with the added benefit (imo) of less decay, quicker transient response, and more impact. These differences do not make the hardwood variants wildly different from their stock counterpart as they all share the same overall tonality, but when seeking out the "last percent", the "minor" differences are important enough and weigh heavily on the purchase decision. Ziracote was the first of the three I heard and it touted the aforementioned qualities and served as my baseline for the hardwood variants. Cocobolo was the next one I heard. It was an instant favorite for me. It added a hint of treble sparkle over the comparatively darker Ziracote. Not to mention, the beauty of Cocobolo hath taken for itself another casualty so to speak. Pheasantwood was the most interesting in that it had the widest soundstage of the three. Left to right image distinction was prominent comparatively. However, it was a little too wide for me and thus not have the imaging consistency of the former woods to my ears.

It's been a couple years since I've last heard a VO. I am excited, however, because I pulled the trigger on a Desert Ironwood set. This will be the fifth variant I will have heard and I can't wait to get them on my head.

Here's some pictures I took on my Verite journey.

IMG_2016.jpegIMG_2017.jpegIMG_2018.jpegIMG_2213.jpegIMG_2228.jpegIMG_2231.jpegIMG_2221.jpeg

oh-lordy-this-is-the-big-one-elizabeth.jpg


(cause of death: way too many beautiful wooden headphones at one viewing)
 
Jun 13, 2021 at 1:11 PM Post #6,465 of 9,518
Gawd, at those prices, you could buy a zmf cable and have enough $ left for a solid tube amp. Makes zero sense to me.

I have to agree. Though there's a lot of love out there for Trevor's cables, getting up to ~$900+ kinda sidelines me, at least for a cable.

I just ordered the one Norne cable I've been jonesing for: the "Clear" Drausk (his current TOTL copper design). It cost a bit over $400 for a 7 ft. length of this rather beautiful cable. That still might be silly $$, though I tend to hear and appreciate the small differences conferred by really well designed & constructed copper cables.

Of course I'll compare the Drausk to my current cable fave, ForzaAudioWork's HCP Noir (have 2 of those). Is it possible to have too much of a good thing? Hell no!
 

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