[endre83]

I don't understand how anyone can bash on ZMF you get a headphone with replaceable parts and a freaking life time warranty on the driver

Not only that you can tune the sound via pads and enjoy your headphones in different ways.

And the icing on the cake is zmfs customer service.. To all of you verite closed owners I am so jealous of you guys. When this covid-19 stuff dies down I can't wait to save up my funds and purchase the verite closed.

These headphones are beautiful and its awesome to see the people on this thread helping others on ideas on how to make there new toy shine.

Fingers crossed that I can convince my wife to get these (I told her it's 2k and not $2500 lol)

If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything

 

[paradoxper]

I have nothing to add here other than that the Verite Closed are just so organically and holistically amazing. The most complete closed headphone I've ever owned. Getting lost in a current session.

There is a small chance I sale them in the short term as I don't have a need for a closed headphone and I'm looking to try anything and everything during the quarantine. I'm only mentioning that so I don't seem like a hypocrite within the next month or two lol. But to have them come quite close to my opinion of much more expensive cans that are OPEN.. pretty big deal. As I've said before, at their NEW price they are a bargain. And that's something I appreciate as most newer 'TOTL' headphones are $2-3k+ despite what they actually offer.

Yup. A truly remarkable achievement!

 

[Klmahnn]

One last note - if using an amp like the MassDrop THX789 - or any other amp with a very low impedance out, you are actually damping the driver further and hence making the headphones sound darker even though the character of these amps is not dark. The higher the damping factor the more muted the sound is with less decay. This is part of the reason even though I love the Rupert Neve amps, I don't suggest them, with our headphones, and the THX MassDrop amp has an even lower output impedance at .005. Even amps with an output impedance of 1 or 2 will sound vastly different and less damped and unnatural. So when you say the highs are muted, it may actually be your amp doing a lot of that work.

A great entry into solid state amps for our headphones is the beyer a20, which has a higher output impedance.

How subtle (or not) is this effect? Only asking because I’ve seen the Element used from pics of Canjam which seems to have an output impedance of 1 ohm?

I’ve honestly never given any thought to output impedance and I struggled to find a solid state anywhere near the output impedance of the A20 last night. Does anyone know of any others? There’s the more expensive Beyerdynamic A2 but I wonder if it’s worth it’s premium over the A20...

 

[jonstatt]

One last note - if using an amp like the MassDrop THX789 - or any other amp with a very low impedance out, you are actually damping the driver further and hence making the headphones sound darker even though the character of these amps is not dark. The higher the damping factor the more muted the sound is with less decay. This is part of the reason even though I love the Rupert Neve amps, I don't suggest them, with our headphones, and the THX MassDrop amp has an even lower output impedance at .005. Even amps with an output impedance of 1 or 2 will sound vastly different and less damped and unnatural. So when you say the highs are muted, it may actually be your amp doing a lot of that work.

A great entry into solid state amps for our headphones is the beyer a20, which has a higher output impedance.

Hi Zach. I would really like to explore the impedance aspect a bit more. I read this article
https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/

It says

Commonly a damping factor greater than 2.5:1 and nearer to 8:1 is considered optimal (headphone impedance 2.5x to 8x greater than the source impedance).

and

“…if an amplifier’s output impedance is significantly more than an eighth of the headphone’s impedance, the frequency response and sound of the headphone can change. This results in bigger mismatches and creates more variation from the headphone’s default sound signature. The way that a headphone responds to an amplifier with output impedance higher than one eighth of the headphone can be entirely erratic – different headphones will respond in different ways, but generally the results will be negative.” – RHA Audio

and

NwAvGuy tells us that “…a “perfect” source has an output impedance of zero ohms. This means it will always deliver the same output into any load.” Since we live in the land of compromise rather than perfection, we have to make educated decisions when selecting an amplifier for our headphones.

This implies a near zero impedance to be desirable! And the Beyer A20 (100 ohms) would potentially interfere with the intended frequency response as the linearity of headphone impedance only exists with planars. The VC is 300 ohms, only 3 times the A20 output.

I am currently playing with a T+A HA200 which has a remarkable feature of adjustable output impedance. However its minimum is 8 ohms which was a little surprising as by the rules quoted above, you would need to steer towards headphones of 64ohms or above. Once again, for planars though, Z essentially becomes a resistive load so won't show frequency response changes. So an LCD-4Z should still be fine. But a Focal Clear or Stellia would not.

 

[zach915m]

Hi Zach. I would really like to explore the impedance aspect a bit more. I read this article
https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/

It says


and



and



This implies a near zero impedance to be desirable! And the Beyer A20 (100 ohms) would potentially interfere with the intended frequency response as the linearity of headphone impedance only exists with planars. The VC is 300 ohms, only 3 times the A20 output.

I am currently playing with a T+A HA200 which has a remarkable feature of adjustable output impedance. However its minimum is 8 ohms which was a little surprising as by the rules quoted above, you would need to steer towards headphones of 64ohms or above. Once again, for planars though, Z essentially becomes a resistive load so won't show frequency response changes. So an LCD-4Z should still be fine. But a Focal Clear or Stellia would not.

These are definitely general rules that I've heard thrown around lots of times, I certainly am not an Amp designer but what I can say is that you should treat the 1/8 rule or greater than 2.5 rule as generalities. As one amp that has an impedance of 1/8 of the headphone won't necessarily do the same thing as another amp with the same impedance.

The Beyer amp, even though at 100 ohm out, doesn't have the same sound as an otl amp with 100 ohm out as an example and etc etc.

There does become a point with impedance where the FR starts to change, but you can also notice the character and damping of the driver change. Many engineers I've heard state the Nwav guy thing about the lower impedance the better, hypothetically this may be true if looking objectively since the lower the impedance the more control the amp is supposed to have over the driver, but there becomes a point where the driver is so damped from the output impedance of the amp that it sound unnatural. This is why I usually suggest an output impedance for zmfs of 1 ohm or higher, anything lower than that and usually the amp either won't have much power output left at 300 ohms for our drivers, or the sound will just be incredibly dull due to the higher damping factor without decay or ambiance.

Hope that helps.

 

[erics75]

These are definitely general rules that I've heard thrown around lots of times, I certainly am not an Amp designer but what I can say is that you should treat the 1/8 rule or greater than 2.5 rule as generalities. As one amp that has an impedance of 1/8 of the headphone won't necessarily do the same thing as another amp with the same impedance.

The Beyer amp, even though at 100 ohm out, doesn't have the same sound as an otl amp with 100 ohm out as an example and etc etc.

There does become a point with impedance where the FR starts to change, but you can also notice the character and damping of the driver change. Many engineers I've heard state the Nwav guy thing about the lower impedance the better, hypothetically this may be true if looking objectively since the lower the impedance the more control the amp is supposed to have over the driver, but there becomes a point where the driver is so damped from the output impedance of the amp that it sound unnatural. This is why I usually suggest an output impedance for zmfs of 1 ohm or higher, anything lower than that and usually the amp either won't have much power output left at 300 ohms for our drivers, or the sound will just be incredibly dull due to the higher damping factor without decay or ambiance.

Hope that helps.

Excellent info. From my own experience, all my solid state amps have an output impedance of .1 or lower, and I just do not like how they sound with my ZMFs nearly as much as I do my Bottlehead Crack and Pendant amps, both of which have 150ohm or higher output impedance. They sound flat and dull, lacking engagement.

 

[jonstatt]

These are definitely general rules that I've heard thrown around lots of times, I certainly am not an Amp designer but what I can say is that you should treat the 1/8 rule or greater than 2.5 rule as generalities. As one amp that has an impedance of 1/8 of the headphone won't necessarily do the same thing as another amp with the same impedance.

The Beyer amp, even though at 100 ohm out, doesn't have the same sound as an otl amp with 100 ohm out as an example and etc etc.

There does become a point with impedance where the FR starts to change, but you can also notice the character and damping of the driver change. Many engineers I've heard state the Nwav guy thing about the lower impedance the better, hypothetically this may be true if looking objectively since the lower the impedance the more control the amp is supposed to have over the driver, but there becomes a point where the driver is so damped from the output impedance of the amp that it sound unnatural. This is why I usually suggest an output impedance for zmfs of 1 ohm or higher, anything lower than that and usually the amp either won't have much power output left at 300 ohms for our drivers, or the sound will just be incredibly dull due to the higher damping factor without decay or ambiance.

Hope that helps.

Very interesting. Clearly the science is even more complex than that suggested in the article. Thank you so much for your insight!

 

[SteveM324]

My Auris Nirvana vacuum tube amp has 5 switchable impedance settings and I can definitely hear the difference when I change between settings for my VO.

 

[cglin222]

Anyone know what is the output impedence for wa7 ?

 

[erics75]

New Phonitor e in the house, and initial impressions are really favorable. This is the best I've heard my VC sound on solid state. For those that find the VC a tad harsh on solid state amps, and don't want to run a tube amp, this is a great choice. I'm listening louder than I do on my well regarded Lake People RS-08, and have less fatigue at that higher volume. It's not as fun as the Pendant amp, but so far, this is the best solid state I've heard! Just wanted to share some very early impressions. The amp is dead quite, highly dynamic, and very neutral. Refinement is what I keep thinking, as I log more and more time with it. My RS-08 can match it's dynamics and PRAT, but sounds slightly harsh and unnatural in comparison. I'll add more detail in a few days/weeks, but initial impressions are very good. I've survived a few of my treble torture tracks without major discomfort, that's a great sign

EDIT - The VC sounds downright thunderous on bassy tracks. This is the most bass i've heard from the VC on any amp, and really is catching me off guard. And I'm using the Auteur lambskins right now, not the bassier Universe pads. It reminds me of the Atticus in how hard it's slamming. Guess it's time to go grab the Atticus and plug in!

 

[Steve Wilcox]

I've been eyeing the VCs for some time now but I'm disappointed to hear from Zach that the Rupert Neve RNHP would likely not be a good match. That's what I have and hadn't really factored in getting a new amp as well the headphones.

I currently use the Rupert Neve RNHP with my Ether 2s and it sounds very good to my ears.

I wonder if anyone could suggest an amp that would pair well with both the VCs and the Ether 2s and other planar headphones? I've had a look at the Beyer A20 that Zach suggests but it gets slightly mixed reviews and I'm not completely sold on it. Perhaps it partners particularly well with the VCs but less so with other cans?

Budgetwise, I'd like to keep it under £500 approx. My listening tastes are pretty wide - mainly mainstream rock, jazz, blues and classical. Not rap or dance. My taste leans toward warm and musical rather than analytical but I wouldn't want anything too colored or too far from neutral.

I'd really appreciate any guidance you can offer.

 

[Rowethren]

I've been eyeing the VCs for some time now but I'm disappointed to hear from Zach that the Rupert Neve RNHP would likely not be a good match. That's what I have and hadn't really factored in getting a new amp as well the headphones.

I currently use the Rupert Neve RNHP with my Ether 2s and it sounds very good to my ears.

I wonder if anyone could suggest an amp that would pair well with both the VCs and the Ether 2s and other planar headphones? I've had a look at the Beyer A20 that Zach suggests but it gets slightly mixed reviews and I'm not completely sold on it. Perhaps it partners particularly well with the VCs but less so with other cans?

Budgetwise, I'd like to keep it under £500 approx. My listening tastes are pretty wide - mainly mainstream rock, jazz, blues and classical. Not rap or dance. My taste leans toward warm and musical rather than analytical but I wouldn't want anything too colored or too far from neutral.

I'd really appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Prehaps try a Lyr 3? Having a tube allows you to tune it how you want and as it is only a single no need to faff with matched pairs etc. I use one for my work setup and have been very happy with it.

 

[zworykin]

Prehaps try a Lyr 3? Having a tube allows you to tune it how you want and as it is only a single no need to faff with matched pairs etc. I use one for my work setup and have been very happy with it.

I think the point was that Zach suggested an amp with higher output impedance. Isn't the Lyr 3 only 0.3 Ohm? Not sure that would solve the problem here.

 

[Focux]

I've been eyeing the VCs for some time now but I'm disappointed to hear from Zach that the Rupert Neve RNHP would likely not be a good match. That's what I have and hadn't really factored in getting a new amp as well the headphones.

I currently use the Rupert Neve RNHP with my Ether 2s and it sounds very good to my ears.

I wonder if anyone could suggest an amp that would pair well with both the VCs and the Ether 2s and other planar headphones? I've had a look at the Beyer A20 that Zach suggests but it gets slightly mixed reviews and I'm not completely sold on it. Perhaps it partners particularly well with the VCs but less so with other cans?

Budgetwise, I'd like to keep it under £500 approx. My listening tastes are pretty wide - mainly mainstream rock, jazz, blues and classical. Not rap or dance. My taste leans toward warm and musical rather than analytical but I wouldn't want anything too colored or too far from neutral.

I'd really appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Feliks Elise?

 

[Rowethren]

I think the point was that Zach suggested an amp with higher output impedance. Isn't the Lyr 3 only 0.3 Ohm? Not sure that would solve the problem here.

I run my VC from a Mjolnir 2 which has low output impedance as well but it doesn't seem to stop them sounding great together.