JM1979
100+ Head-Fier
Maybe you just love the thrill of watching Zach and Bevin’s spreadsheet?
ZMF Verite Closed-New Closed Back ZMF Flagship.
- Thread starter Monsterzero
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Maybe you just love the thrill of watching Zach and Bevin’s spreadsheet?
Ah.. I never had the pleasure of viewing that spreadsheet. I think it is only available to customers who purchase directly from them. I have to go thru a local distributor and the spreadsheet is not extended to us.
I'm a bit of a ZMF spreadsheet junky myself as I watched it for 9 weeks on my VO Cocobolo and I'm at 11 weeks on the VC MP. 
Hmm...that gave me an idea for a song.
Àedhàn Cassiel
100+ Head-Fier
This comment will be a bit 'out of nowhere', but these are just a few points I've been thinking about as regards frequency response and the search for 'one headphone that does it all.' None of this is exactly directly related to the VC, but the thoughts all spawned from the guy thinking he wasn't seeing overwhelming positive feedback about them in here.
1. I find that basing the FR you look for in headphones off of the music you like actually kind of gets things backwards in a way. It took observing trends in my music choices over a long period of time to notice this, but the genres, recordings, and songs that stand out most to me totally depends on the qualities of the headphone I'm listening through. I listen to a track where something really stands out to me, then suddenly I'm looking for music to give me the same kind of 'hit' that that song did, and now my entire overall tastes are shifting that way because of one song. I don't consciously notice it at the time, but it's actually the headphone driving this whole shift. Now I think I only like certain genres and I want a headphone that will present that genre well - but it's just because what I was listening through presented something I liked in that genre unusually well that I think I like that genre. If I spend enough time with a very different headphone, my tastes will shift until I'm getting completely new kinds of enjoyment out of music that never would have occurred to me otherwise. The stuff I gravitated towards with the HD800 is quite different from the stuff I gravitated towards with the LCD4. So personally, I actually think throwing yourself out of your 'comfort zone' is a meaningful and important part of the whole audiophile experience. Take time getting used to something you can tolerate but aren't in love with immediately, see if you don't gradually start appreciating new stuff in a different way.
2. People seriously underestimate not only "brain burn-in" and things like that, but also their own physiological changes over time.
I've discovered that even otherwise unnoticeable changes in sinus pressure have a dramatic effect on how I experience music. If I go for a run in the heat breathing through my nose exclusively and my sinuses drain, things will sound significantly clearer afterwards - and I'll find myself enjoying warmer/darker signatures more, as I don't need so much accentuated treble to make things sound crisp and clear. It's been several months now since I've discovered this is an extremely consistent effect.
And on that note, I loved them instantly, but if I had any complaint about the VC very early on when my brain was burned into the LCD4 sound, it was an upper-frequency spike keeping me from blasting the guitars as loud as I usually did with the LCD4. Well... all of a sudden, now the VC sounds just a bit too muffled. Then it hits me that I'm on a trip up to a much higher elevation than I'm currently living at. Lest anyone think I'm insane for drawing a connection here, some serious scientific research has drawn a significant correlation between elevation and suicide rates because of the way the air pressure changes the balance of different gasses in your lungs as well as brain chemistry: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3114154/
If the air pressure can have an effect this dramatic on how different gasses interact in your lungs, I have no doubt it could impact how the eustachian tube regulates inner-ear pressure.
For the first time in a long time, I felt absolutely compelled to pull my HD800 back out. Most days it feels too thin for me to enjoy, and the last time I listened months ago I thought I had moved on was ready to sell them - right now I wouldn't be enjoying music much out of anything if I didn't have them. And among other things, I'm listening to Cattle Decapitation. Also, I never had a problem with the HD800 midrange before, but tiny cuts at 2800 and 5500 with a slight boost at 4000 just made it perfect.
It occurs to me all of a sudden that I when I bought and loved the HD800 and spent the most time listening to it, I was living at a higher elevation in the mountains - and when I moved back down closer to sea level, that's when I started to find them thin and grating. No joke, that part didn't even hit me until I was in the middle of writing all this.
These are just a couple points I discovered on my own. I'm sure there's a whole lot more than this happening on the subjective end of the sound experience that we don't have anyone taking the time to research. I'd bet anything there are people picking headphones they end up not liking at home just because the meet was at a different elevation than they live at. Just for one random example of how factors nobody is aware of or thinking about could be influencing their perception of sound.
1. I find that basing the FR you look for in headphones off of the music you like actually kind of gets things backwards in a way. It took observing trends in my music choices over a long period of time to notice this, but the genres, recordings, and songs that stand out most to me totally depends on the qualities of the headphone I'm listening through. I listen to a track where something really stands out to me, then suddenly I'm looking for music to give me the same kind of 'hit' that that song did, and now my entire overall tastes are shifting that way because of one song. I don't consciously notice it at the time, but it's actually the headphone driving this whole shift. Now I think I only like certain genres and I want a headphone that will present that genre well - but it's just because what I was listening through presented something I liked in that genre unusually well that I think I like that genre. If I spend enough time with a very different headphone, my tastes will shift until I'm getting completely new kinds of enjoyment out of music that never would have occurred to me otherwise. The stuff I gravitated towards with the HD800 is quite different from the stuff I gravitated towards with the LCD4. So personally, I actually think throwing yourself out of your 'comfort zone' is a meaningful and important part of the whole audiophile experience. Take time getting used to something you can tolerate but aren't in love with immediately, see if you don't gradually start appreciating new stuff in a different way.
2. People seriously underestimate not only "brain burn-in" and things like that, but also their own physiological changes over time.
I've discovered that even otherwise unnoticeable changes in sinus pressure have a dramatic effect on how I experience music. If I go for a run in the heat breathing through my nose exclusively and my sinuses drain, things will sound significantly clearer afterwards - and I'll find myself enjoying warmer/darker signatures more, as I don't need so much accentuated treble to make things sound crisp and clear. It's been several months now since I've discovered this is an extremely consistent effect.
And on that note, I loved them instantly, but if I had any complaint about the VC very early on when my brain was burned into the LCD4 sound, it was an upper-frequency spike keeping me from blasting the guitars as loud as I usually did with the LCD4. Well... all of a sudden, now the VC sounds just a bit too muffled. Then it hits me that I'm on a trip up to a much higher elevation than I'm currently living at. Lest anyone think I'm insane for drawing a connection here, some serious scientific research has drawn a significant correlation between elevation and suicide rates because of the way the air pressure changes the balance of different gasses in your lungs as well as brain chemistry: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3114154/
If the air pressure can have an effect this dramatic on how different gasses interact in your lungs, I have no doubt it could impact how the eustachian tube regulates inner-ear pressure.
For the first time in a long time, I felt absolutely compelled to pull my HD800 back out. Most days it feels too thin for me to enjoy, and the last time I listened months ago I thought I had moved on was ready to sell them - right now I wouldn't be enjoying music much out of anything if I didn't have them. And among other things, I'm listening to Cattle Decapitation. Also, I never had a problem with the HD800 midrange before, but tiny cuts at 2800 and 5500 with a slight boost at 4000 just made it perfect.
It occurs to me all of a sudden that I when I bought and loved the HD800 and spent the most time listening to it, I was living at a higher elevation in the mountains - and when I moved back down closer to sea level, that's when I started to find them thin and grating. No joke, that part didn't even hit me until I was in the middle of writing all this.
These are just a couple points I discovered on my own. I'm sure there's a whole lot more than this happening on the subjective end of the sound experience that we don't have anyone taking the time to research. I'd bet anything there are people picking headphones they end up not liking at home just because the meet was at a different elevation than they live at. Just for one random example of how factors nobody is aware of or thinking about could be influencing their perception of sound.
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Didn't like the look of it at all to begin with, then like you said, it grew on me loads. The timing with the new Star Wars release definitely helped that shift along! I'm a sucker for all in one units as well
Richardhoos
100+ Head-Fier
I posted this in a different forum but figured I’d cross-post here, too. I’m curious about something:
I use the GSX-Mini with Verite Closed headphones and have been listening on low gain at about 11-12 o’clock volume. Balanced.
For those with VCs (or headphones of similar specs), where do you find your volume dial settling?
I’m sure other variables in the chain and music type, file type etc change things somewhat but I’m generally just wondering where people’s dial lands. Has anyone with a similar set up ever used an SPL?
I use the GSX-Mini with Verite Closed headphones and have been listening on low gain at about 11-12 o’clock volume. Balanced.
For those with VCs (or headphones of similar specs), where do you find your volume dial settling?
I’m sure other variables in the chain and music type, file type etc change things somewhat but I’m generally just wondering where people’s dial lands. Has anyone with a similar set up ever used an SPL?
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Why don't you use one of the many SPL meter apps for your smartphone? You can get a reasonable accurate answer on the SPL level just by holding the phone's mic inside one of the VC cups...
tusing
100+ Head-Fier
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I don’t get many vacation days, but the day my VC arrives is a day I’m taking off! So excited for this! Thanks for all the reviews so far everyone!
That's an occasion if I've ever heard one. There should be a national ZMF day anyway.
Richardhoos
100+ Head-Fier
Thanks for the responses!
Zachik, I will have to give that a shot. I had thought of that but wasn’t sure how practical it would be to maneuver the iPhone in there while maintaining a decent deal. At any rate, it’s worth a shot and probably wouldn’t be too far off the mark.
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I think it would be extremely hard to get a seal, but then again for SPL measurement (as opposed to FR graph) - seal is not important AFAIK.
I've had my Ironwood VCs for a few weeks now and am very happy with them! Not sure if I'm going to sell my VOs yet, but I might since I like the vocal presentation of the VCs quite a bit more (even if it isn't quite as amazingly 3D as the VO.) I was worried they would make me want to sell my Auteurs since MonsterZero said the VCs made him sell his pair, however I find that the Auteur is still king for vocal sweetness and easy listening. It also always feels way more open than both the VO and VC... If this makes any sense: when I listen to the VO and switch to the Auteur it always feels like I've surfaced my head out of water and can breathe again. It's something I only realize when switching between them, but it's probably due to the darker presentation of the VO (the VC seems rather brighter than the VO; but still not as bright as the teak Auteur.) I spent a couple of weeks with the Auteur pads and have since swapped to the Universe pads since I enjoy their impact and vocal presentation far more, even if you do lose a bit of space and separation (that said, the Uni pads still have great imaging and tbh I found the auteur pads sounded a bit artificially wide to me at times? Kind of like the HD800) I wanted to love the Auteur hybrids, because heliosphann is absolutely right, they do have the best top end presentation (dat sparkle man); but at the end of the day the Universe pads have such impact (mostly due to the hybrid pads slowing the transients some) and have such a fun vocal presentation that I ended up going back to the Universe pads.
For those interested my chains are:
PC (FLAC and ALAC music)> Gumby > Bottlehead Mainline
and
Mac (ALAC music)> Modi 3> souped up AmpsandSound Mogwai (has input transformers and upgraded caps)
The VCs sound great out of both!
For those interested my chains are:
PC (FLAC and ALAC music)> Gumby > Bottlehead Mainline
and
Mac (ALAC music)> Modi 3> souped up AmpsandSound Mogwai (has input transformers and upgraded caps)
The VCs sound great out of both!
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jmk720
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I feel the same way about verite vs auteur.
kyle_martin
New Head-Fier
First time I tried this, I was shocked at how loud 100db is. If anything it will help put you at ease that you're not destroying your ear drums. Or, conversely, that you may need to dial it down a bit.
I tried a few different ways to seal the phones mic in there, and each gave similar peak readings.
