[Honeypot]

Well thanks everyone, and excuse my delay. It's been crazy weeks.

If you like the Caldera and ZMF house sound the Atrium open is probably the best complementary choice

I had them on my radar before the caldera came out. And definitely it's starting to bring my attention again.

Atrium Closed is more unique imho and will offer a very different presentation being a closed back with unholy amounts of bass and slam if you are into it.

I like the bass slam, but compared to the open, how they stand in soundstage?
I consider the caldera to be fair in terms on soundstage. Sometimes I feel the LCD-X got a bit larger soundstage both wide and tall.

What kind of music do you like to listen to?

Do you have any other headphones beside Caldera? Which other headphones have you tried in the past that you liked?

I love music, from electronic, techno, hip hop, trip hop, but also jazz classical and a long list...
I've the zmf caldera, Audeze LCD-X and beyerdynamic DT 1990 pro.
I like the tone of the beyers but the presentation of the LCD-X. The caldera has the best of both. But I'm looking for something different. If the atrium open has larger soundstage than caldera and a bit of relaxed presentation would be perfect. But it's impossible to demo them where I live here in Catalonia (as far as I know).

How about Erzetich Charybdis? Seems like a Solid Headphone

Never heard of them. Should I consider?

I think Atrium Open sounds like the best choice based on what you're describing. More different from the Caldera than the Verite Open (which also excels in detail, has a similar sized soundstage, and to my ears has closer tonality than the Atrium does). It's also my one ZMF I tend to like as much on my OTL as the Envy you have coming.

Interesting.

Then your next headphone will need to be a high impedance dynamic driver headphone.

No. See above.

probably will need to be open back due to staging differences, and since you prefer warm, you can cross HD800 off of the list.

Probably Atrium or Verite open, though personally I'd go with Atrium closed, which stages very well for a closed design.

The hd800 was recommended by a couple of friends, but the lack of bass it's a no.
This last sentence puts me in a very difficult situation jejej. While the atrium open seems to gain votes, the closed also has some.
Warmth + soundstage

I've gotten so tired of pushing mine back in it's just been like this for like a year. lol

This is my hack, although a bit overdone.
Thermo retractable tube.

Thanks everyone.
I'll investigate between atrium open and closed.

 

[sp33ls]

I would personally lean towards either the AC or VO based on your descriptions

 

[goldwerger]

I'm planning to use it with an otl tube amp.

soundstage, and it's a bit of a must.

I'd like something towards warm and relaxed.

I love music, from electronic, techno, hip hop, trip hop, but also jazz classical and a long list...

If the atrium open has larger soundstage than caldera and a bit of relaxed presentation would be perfect.

I have a hunch that the AC with Caldera suede pads may be the right choice for you.

The AO is awesome, will give you the warm and relaxed sound you look, but will emphasize more mid bass than lower bass, and would be perfect more for classic rock and pop, where some of the genre you listen to shine with a more extended lower/sub bass (btw, they are both great with all genres, we are nitpicking here).

Both the AC and AO are wonderful with OTL amps (I just love them with the Decware/ZMF Reference OTL, but have also heard them with others; great fit!).

With the Caldera Suede pads the AC, for me perosnally, makes the transition between lower bass to mids a bit cleaner (less bleeding over) improving overall clarity and notably, to my perception, opens up the soundstage. It remains a very bass heavy headphone (more than the AO).

If I had to choose only one ZMF headphone, I may be caught in an internal loop of analysis paraysis (the AO might be it). But for a duo that most captured the entirety of the currently released ZMF gamut, the Caldera and AC would be the two I'd pick and recommend for you.

 

[AudioDuck]

Both the AC and AO are wonderful with OTL amps

100 times yes with regards to the AC and OTL amps. Pure magic.

With the Caldera Suede pads the AC, for me perosnally, makes the transition between lower bass to mids a bit cleaner (less bleeding over) improving overall clarity and notably, to my perception, opens up the soundstage. It remains a very bass heavy headphone (more than the AO).

Spot on. While you definitely have to be a bass-loving person to use an AC with suede Caldera Thin pads-

I’d add that you could, depending on the OTL amp, tube roll accordingly if you felt the bass was too much. I would imagine that would be true about most OTLs, it certainly is with the Woo Audio WA2.

 

[Honeypot]

Thank you for the answers

I have a hunch that the AC with Caldera suede pads may be the right choice for you.

The AO is awesome, will give you the warm and relaxed sound you look, but will emphasize more mid bass than lower bass, and would be perfect more for classic rock and pop, where some of the genre you listen to shine with a more extended lower/sub bass (btw, they are both great with all genres, we are nitpicking here).

Both the AC and AO are wonderful with OTL amps (I just love them with the Decware/ZMF Reference OTL, but have also heard them with others; great fit!).

With the Caldera Suede pads the AC, for me perosnally, makes the transition between lower bass to mids a bit cleaner (less bleeding over) improving overall clarity and notably, to my perception, opens up the soundstage. It remains a very bass heavy headphone (more than the AO).

If I had to choose only one ZMF headphone, I may be caught in an internal loop of analysis paraysis (the AO might be it). But for a duo that most captured the entirety of the currently released ZMF gamut, the Caldera and AC would be the two I'd pick and recommend for you.

Yesterday did some research and all I could gather is the AO has greater soundstage due to the open design.
Warmth seems to be also s thing. But in regards of warmth relaxed and open soundstage, would you still pick the AC over AO? Thanks

100 times yes with regards to the AC and OTL amps. Pure magic.

Spot on. While you definitely have to be a bass-loving person to use an AC with suede Caldera Thin pads-

I’d add that you could, depending on the OTL amp, tube roll accordingly if you felt the bass was too much. I would imagine that would be true about most OTLs, it certainly is with the Woo Audio WA2.

Well my olt tube amp is currently the Feliks echo. It's a cheap otl amp, but ive done some tube rolling and this amp is pure magic.
Currently got some Mullard cv2492, Amperex Bugle boy and Tungsram E88CC.
As for power tubes got some foton 6n6p from the 60's. Its not easy to pick a winner but. I think the Amperex got the slight advance.
The Mullard are very sweet too, but more refined. The bugles sound warmer on my setup. That's my otl. And it's gonna be for some time if I get either AO or AC.

Thanks in advance

 

[goldwerger]

But in regards of warmth relaxed and open soundstage, would you still pick the AC over AO?

It that’s your first priority then go with the AO

 

[fuhnoo]

I have a hunch that the AC with Caldera suede pads may be the right choice for you.

The AO is awesome, will give you the warm and relaxed sound you look, but will emphasize more mid bass than lower bass, and would be perfect more for classic rock and pop, where some of the genre you listen to shine with a more extended lower/sub bass (btw, they are both great with all genres, we are nitpicking here).

Both the AC and AO are wonderful with OTL amps (I just love them with the Decware/ZMF Reference OTL, but have also heard them with others; great fit!).

With the Caldera Suede pads the AC, for me perosnally, makes the transition between lower bass to mids a bit cleaner (less bleeding over) improving overall clarity and notably, to my perception, opens up the soundstage. It remains a very bass heavy headphone (more than the AO).

If I had to choose only one ZMF headphone, I may be caught in an internal loop of analysis paraysis (the AO might be it). But for a duo that most captured the entirety of the currently released ZMF gamut, the Caldera and AC would be the two I'd pick and recommend for you.

You perfectly captured my sentiment on this as well... although I would like to also recommend the Auteur Suede (SOLID) pads for the AC. These kept the punch + (most of the) bass of the lambskin pads and the smoothness + airiness of the Caldera suedes in addition to improving isolation over both. They're definitely worth a try!

 

[JackarlTwo]

@Honeypot
I don't think you can go wrong with either the AO or AC. They both work wonderfully with a lot of genres. I'd say for bass heavy music (electronic, trance etc) AC is probably the way to go, I haven't heard a better headphone for those genres. On my loaner I did extensive comparisons with AO and AC (both in their stock configurations) and always found AO to be a little bit warmer with a significantly larger stage with more forward mids. AC had a more pulled back midrange, more energy around the presence region (3-4KHz) and around 8KHz which made them sound a little bit brighter to me with rock/ folk and natural instruments. AC has a bigger sub-bass rumble, while I think AO hits a little bit harder in mid-bass/ upper bass.

 

[AcousticMatt]

@Honeypot
I don't think you can go wrong with either the AO or AC. They both work wonderfully with a lot of genres. @Honeypot

+1 from me. AC and Caldera are my two my favorite headphones. As awesome as the AO is, the AC does something pretty special with the soundstage. It's like you're in your own private acoustically tuned room. It's pretty amazing. AO's soundstage sounds layered and unique, but the AC really does it for me. Plus, the bass is so fun.

Side note - haven't seen many people listening to jazz or classical on the AC, but it brings a very cool element to those genres. Was listening to a cello concerto and a jazz quartet album and that unique soundstage and imaging worked very, very well for these genres. Less air than Caldera or Verite, sure, but these unique qualities that is has is a must-listen if you like these genres! And then of course it's gonna be great with more obvious bass-heavier genres. The weight it adds to something like the cello though is something I highly recommend giving a listen (Bruno Philippe - Prokofiev: Sinfonia Concertante, Cello Sonata).

 

[goldwerger]

Bruno Philippe - Prokofiev: Sinfonia Concertante, Cello Sonata

Very nice recording

 

[DenverW]

With the AC closed headed back to the shop for a little TLC I've been spending the last week with some uninterrupted Caldera Time.

So. Good. Just so good. You know how sometimes you just have a night where everything sounds fantastic, and your chain just seems amazing? Well, that's been the last few nights. Merason Dac-1 into the Aegis Amp into the Caldera. While I love the ZMF line up, this is at the top of the food chain for me. Nothing else can make bad 80's music sound so good.

 

[Rollnrock]

+1 from me. AC and Caldera are my two my favorite headphones. As awesome as the AO is, the AC does something pretty special with the soundstage. It's like you're in your own private acoustically tuned room. It's pretty amazing. AO's soundstage sounds layered and unique, but the AC really does it for me. Plus, the bass is so fun.

Side note - haven't seen many people listening to jazz or classical on the AC, but it brings a very cool element to those genres. Was listening to a cello concerto and a jazz quartet album and that unique soundstage and imaging worked very, very well for these genres. Less air than Caldera or Verite, sure, but these unique qualities that is has is a must-listen if you like these genres! And then of course it's gonna be great with more obvious bass-heavier genres. The weight it adds to something like the cello though is something I highly recommend giving a listen (Bruno Philippe - Prokofiev: Sinfonia Concertante, Cello Sonata).

+1 for the AC as a good complement for something faster and detailed like the Caldera (or Verite)

For bass heavy genres it is absolute, visceral pleasure

And as for Classical music and Jazz, although I love these genres with the Verite, I completely agree that listening with the AC is very enjoyable and does something special as you mention. The natural timbre and the slower decay are something else. And I think the ADS does a great job creating a wonderful soundstage, in smaller dimensions yes, but with very good positioning of the instruments and great “order” and cohesion in the music.

 

[iamoneagain]

With the AC closed headed back to the shop for a little TLC I've been spending the last week with some uninterrupted Caldera Time.

So. Good. Just so good. You know how sometimes you just have a night where everything sounds fantastic, and your chain just seems amazing? Well, that's been the last few nights. Merason Dac-1 into the Aegis Amp into the Caldera. While I love the ZMF line up, this is at the top of the food chain for me. Nothing else can make bad 80's music sound so good.

The comment about bad 80’s music is a great point. I find the Calders makes my whole library a pleasure to listen to. The bad recording are not magically transformed but they’re fun and enjoyable. The better recording sound amazing. Some headphones it seems just don’t play nice with bad recordings. People argue that they’re just giving you back what’s there. But I don’t buy it. Those albums sounded fun in the past, so why should moving to better equipment ruin that. The Caldera just makes everything sing.

 

[ECKHUAAA]

+1 from me. AC and Caldera are my two my favorite headphones. As awesome as the AO is, the AC does something pretty special with the soundstage. It's like you're in your own private acoustically tuned room. It's pretty amazing. AO's soundstage sounds layered and unique, but the AC really does it for me. Plus, the bass is so fun.

Side note - haven't seen many people listening to jazz or classical on the AC, but it brings a very cool element to those genres. Was listening to a cello concerto and a jazz quartet album and that unique soundstage and imaging worked very, very well for these genres. Less air than Caldera or Verite, sure, but these unique qualities that is has is a must-listen if you like these genres! And then of course it's gonna be great with more obvious bass-heavier genres. The weight it adds to something like the cello though is something I highly recommend giving a listen (Bruno Philippe - Prokofiev: Sinfonia Concertante, Cello Sonata).

I have the Caldera and I listen to a lot of Classical music both orchestral and chamber and a lot of acoustic jazz and enjoy it a lot especiallyfor the tonal richness and accuracy. Thanks for your comments on the AC, now more than ever I look forward to hearing what magic CC that is Caldera closed will bring to our ears.
Anyone with additional info on how far along this promise of Caldera Closed from Zach?

Thanks

 

[BassicScience]

I have the Caldera and I listen to a lot of Classical music both orchestral and chamber and a lot of acoustic jazz and enjoy it a lot especiallyfor the tonal richness and accuracy. Thanks for your comments on the AC, now more than ever I look forward to hearing what magic CC that is Caldera closed will bring to our ears.
Anyone with additional info on how far along this promise of Caldera Closed from Zach?

Thanks

The rumor is that Caldera Closed (in some iteration) will be available for demo next weekend at CanJam NYC. I think @zach915m stated it should be available for purchase in April or May.

I'm definitely planning on checking it out at CanJam, and will report my impressions in the associated thread.