[unfitstew]

What I DO know without a doubt, scientifically, existentially, exophilistically - is that the new amp that @L0rdGwyn delivered to ZMF yesterday defies all laws of human existence, I literally can't believe how amazing it is.

I went with a color called "Caldera:"


And wow! It's a volcano exploding in my brain every time I've used it so far. I've need a wet towel and a bath half a dozen times in the last day from this thing.

But really @L0rdGwyn you're a legend - and for those in awe of his work as I often am we are working on a Caldera driving commercial version of the "Aegis" which should be released in Q1 this coming year. The Aegis is defined by ample power (it even drives the Tungsten) and a mind-bending-blowing large stage while keeping a firm grip on the low end. I'm beyond excited for it and it's this kind of stuff that keeps me going at tough times of the year like this when things are just busy and stressful!

Aegis thread link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aegis-diy-tube-headphone-amplifier.965530/

Here's some quick pics of the "Air-Universe; Caldera Edition." I will have pics of the Aegis in a few weeks as well which will be widely available.

Seven!!!!!! Count em seven Monolith Magnetics transformers. Holy moly...yes it's heavy.


Sauce shot of the cool transformer covers.



This one my be a little out of focus, volume knob on the left and impedance selector on the right.

That is gorgeous! Can't wait to hopefully try it at Canjam NYC.

 

[zach915m]

I really think you should draw in an “11” on those volume knobs. Just sayin’

Haha I think a cool feature would be to put a rotatable outer "11" ring in place so that you can make sure wherever the volume is point that you're always at 11. But maybe a lot of engineering for a cerebral satisfaction.

 

[iamoneagain]

I was surprised Zach was still posting on ASR but now the back and forth is a little more civil. And I was right that Amirm basically told Zach to make a Harman curve headphone and his followers would buy it.

After reading the posts over there, the idea of what they think they’re trying to do makes a little more sense when you think of TV color calibration standards. The movie studios use this when producing a movie and then when played back on your TV, you see it the way the studio intended. To me that makes sense. But the intended way is actually trying for best look while played on a dark theater. So I’d imagine in a dark room at home will come closest.

Now with music, we know most albums are not mixed for an audiophile headphones or high end speaker setups, but for car stereos and cheap consumer grade headphones. So does that make sense to have a standard thats applied to all headphones. Having us hear what the studio intended would be average at best. And hearing is much more subjective than sight. Also have more factors involved effecting the sound than just frequencies.

Based on what Armim says, you’d think everyone would just being buying the Stealth from now on. The Stealth doesn’t do much at all for me. It’s very analytical and seems to be missing the soul of music. The Expanse moves in the right direction but still falls short for me.

I like that Zach and many other manufacturers may use the Harman curve as a start but actually deviate based on personal preferences, structure, materials, user preferences and other factors. Maybe throw in some magic and luck, but the end result ends up being a unique sound that sets it apart from others. Maybe it’s not what the studio intended but it is what their customers prefer. Let’s hope ASR doesn’t kill these type of businesses. And let’s hope the DCA and others exists to cater to their needs as well. There’s room enough for everyone.

 

[Benesyed]

Sorry to prolong this discussion, but one thing I’m struggling with is the idea that knowing a headphone’s tonality in relation to the Harman curve means you can guess how the headphones sound. As a new Caldera owner as well as owner of Harman darling Expanse, it seems to me there is so much more to the experience of listening to these headphones than the frequency response. The damping used in both headphones has a large impact on the way sound is conveyed. The Expanse sound like a well treated room, while the Caldera in my short time sound more like a stage in a hall. Is that just a subjective statement, or is it something that can be measured but not yet? What I’m saying is there’s data that is not represented by frequency response.

Anyway, I’m far from a scientist, I’m barely even a functional human most days, but this is what I don’t get about the “objectivist” viewpoint. An objective standard target may be desirable, but the target chosen is not a full data set. So how and why is that the only standard?

Frequency response can tell you a lot about how a headphone will sound but not everything because the measurement it's taking is on a fixture and not on your own head which has its own properties that can attenuate sound.

however we do know that a lot of spatial sense is a function of frequency response. You can test this out yourself by applying equalization to headphones and diminishing that sense. in fact if you wanted to just for curiosity you could probably get a sense of how much overlap there is as a result of frequency response alone by applying equalization to both headphones and seeing how similar they sound. now keep in mind they probably still won't sound exactly the same because while equalization smooths out the response it doesn't make it identical.

there are things obviously outside the realm of frequency response that probably affect perception of sound but I think the research shows so far that by far the biggest predictor is indeed frequency response.

 

[Benesyed]

I was surprised Zach was still posting on ASR but now the back and forth is a little more civil. And I was right that Amirm basically told Zach to make a Harman curve headphone and his followers would buy it.

After reading the posts over there, the idea of what they think they’re trying to do makes a little more sense when you think of TV color calibration standards. The movie studios use this when producing a movie and then when played back on your TV, you see it the way the studio intended. To me that makes sense. But the intended way is actually trying for best look while played on a dark theater. So I’d imagine in a dark room at home will come closest.

Now with music, we know most albums are not mixed for an audiophile headphones or high end speaker setups, but for car stereos and cheap consumer grade headphones. So does that make sense to have a standard thats applied to all headphones. Having us hear what the studio intended would be average at best. And hearing is much more subjective than sight. Also have more factors involved effecting the sound than just frequencies.

Based on what Armim says, you’d think everyone would just being buying the Stealth from now on. The Stealth doesn’t do much at all for me. It’s very analytical and seems to be missing the soul of music. The Expanse moves in the right direction but still falls short for me.

I like that Zach and many other manufacturers may use the Harman curve as a start but actually deviate based on personal preferences, structure, materials, user preferences and other factors. Maybe throw in some magic and luck, but the end result ends up being a unique sound that sets it apart from others. Maybe it’s not what the studio intended but it is what their customers prefer. Let’s hope ASR doesn’t kill these type of businesses. And let’s hope the DCA and others exists to cater to their needs as well. There’s room enough for everyone.

while I do not agree with the overarching conclusions that amir makes I think more so his point is it makes sense to him to tune to a standard curve and then allow people to apply equalization to that standard curve to fit their own tastes. The rationale for this is that the Harman standard curve when blinded is what most people will pick as a ground truth, and then can adjust to their own flavor.

I think that this is a reasonable statement to make but I don't necessarily agree with him that companies are in any way obligated to meet a standard curve. additionally I have not read enough of the papers to know what differences and to what degree matter to acoustic perception and then if all of those measurable differences or sufficiently tested with enough power to say that a certain standard curve is overwhelmingly superior. this might all be true I just don't know because I haven't looked at the way the experiments were set up and what was actually being compared.

All this being said though I do think it's valuable to do objective measurements of equipment and have a uniform reference point so that we can at first glance pick out things that are worthwhile for us to learn more about. there are just so many choices in the market at so many price ranges and so much potential for cognitive bias that having an anchor to refer to that's robustly investigated is very valuable

 

[iamoneagain]

So just to fair, I just tried Armim EQ setting in roon just to see what all the fuss is about. The Caldera house sound is actually not changed all that dramatically. Can’t actually tell much in the sub bass but will have to listen longer. It’s the mids that get changed for the worse with this settings. I now hear sibilance and harshness in the mids. But you end up with a slightly punchier bass and more pronounced mids. It’s like with a TV at the store and they have the dynamic setting. At first, this is the most impressive setting but it actually too intense. That’s what the Harman curve is doing.

So back to the new Peter Gabriel album. There is a bright side and dark side mixed by two different engineers. The bright side sound more in line with Harman and I find it less interesting than the more subtle dark side. But in the end it’s just a matter of preference.

I’m continuing listening to the remastered Yes album with the Harman setting and once you adjust, I still like the Caldera. It doesn’t ruin them because you still have the texture, richness and unique soundstage. Just more in your face. But guess what’s going to happen when I switch back. I’m going to find the mids recessed and bass less dynamic. It’s really just a trick and once I readjust, I’ll end up preferring the less in your face stock sound. I do get why a lot of people would pick the Harman curve in quick back and forth settings.

 

[DenverW]

Sometimes when I look at a recipe and the ingredients within it I can make a conclusion that I won't like it. Sometimes I'm right, however some of my favorite foods such as Chicken Tikka Masala contain ingredients that I generally don't like. Pizza is an other example of this. The ingredient list isn't great for me, but who doesn't like pizza!?!

So basically, LOOKING at the ingredient list of what I plan to eat gives information, but it isn't until I actually hear taste it that I can determine if I like it or not. My 7 year old will often refuse to try something just based on what is in it. But, he's 7, and I'd think that adults would be different in that respect. Also, my 7 year old doesn't post on the internet his opinion of something he's never tried.


And speaking of never tried...THAT AMP! I've already been drooling over it in the DIY threads from @L0rdGwyn. I would be very excited to try that meal!!!

 

[Toonartist]

So back to the new Peter Gabriel album. There is a bright side and dark side mixed by two different engineers. The bright side sound more in line with Harman and I find it less interesting than the more subtle dark side. But in the end it’s just a matter of preference.

Yeah, I felt more at home on with the "Dark Side" . The "Light Side" just didn't really hold my interest as much.

 

[iamoneagain]

So just a little more follow up. It was Arab Strap’s As Days Get Dark album that made me realize the Expanse wasn’t for me. It was somehow missing the rhythm that the Utopia and the Caldera have. It was especially noticeable on the song Compersion Pt. 1. Well guess what, this problem still exists with the Caldera with the Harman curve setting. It loses something. And with the next song Bluebird, the vocals are way too prominent with Harman setting. And I’m actually surprised when turning off the EQ, the stock sounds right without any adjustment. Now you can say I adjusted to the sound after a year but after 2 months with the Expanse, this album never sounded right to me.

Edit: Also threw on Death from the Above’s album You’re a Woman, I’m a Machine, the 2nd track Romantic Right. This is an abrasive album but tell me if you can get thru that track with Harman setting. It’s tough. With no EQ and stock pads, still abrasive but it’s like they’re playing thru an old amp. More warmth, vocals more natural.

CCR’s Down on the Corner sounded great on the Expanse. And no surprise, it may actually sound better with Harman curve on the Caldera. It’s such a simple song and sort of makes sense since the bass just stands out. So there are always exceptions but on a whole the Harman based Expanse didn’t work for my whole library while stock Caldera does.

 

[Leto Dal]

So just to fair, I just tried Armim EQ setting in roon just to see what all the fuss is about. The Caldera house sound is actually not changed all that dramatically. Can’t actually tell much in the sub bass but will have to listen longer. It’s the mids that get changed for the worse with this settings. I now hear sibilance and harshness in the mids. But you end up with a slightly punchier bass and more pronounced mids. It’s like with a TV at the store and they have the dynamic setting. At first, this is the most impressive setting but it actually too intense. That’s what the Harman curve is doing.

So back to the new Peter Gabriel album. There is a bright side and dark side mixed by two different engineers. The bright side sound more in line with Harman and I find it less interesting than the more subtle dark side. But in the end it’s just a matter of preference.

I’m continuing listening to the remastered Yes album with the Harman setting and once you adjust, I still like the Caldera. It doesn’t ruin them because you still have the texture, richness and unique soundstage. Just more in your face. But guess what’s going to happen when I switch back. I’m going to find the mids recessed and bass less dynamic. It’s really just a trick and once I readjust, I’ll end up preferring the less in your face stock sound. I do get why a lot of people would pick the Harman curve in quick back and forth settings.

Interesting and cool that someone else is trying that, since there was a lot of talk about his conclusions and review ethos and supposedly scientific bleh, but very little about his actual tuning attempt.
I experienced his tuning bit differently, the treble harshness you speak about was present, but to me it was the bass bloat that basically destroyed the naturalness of the tuning, sometimes bass bleeded into areas where I really didnt want to have it, and smeared overall presentation, sometimes, there was just too much bass, like I dont need a overly bassy acoustic guitar, it doesnt sound true anymore. I shared your "in your face"- impression, there was slightly more of everything but not exactly in a good balanced way.

 

[iamoneagain]

The other thing about the bass being enough with stock sound is because of the whole balance. If you’re going to spike the mids than it’s going to actually make the bass seem less prominent and then need to spike the bass to counterbalance it. Harman setting loses all the nuances and missing some of the warmth as well. I get why Zach moves on from this curve. It’s not terrible but not great either. Like so many things, the most popular is usually just average at best.

 

[cats4cans]

It’s not terrible but not great either. Like so many things, the most popular is usually just average at best.

All the descriptions of averaged, non-offensive tuning make me think of the color beige. I don’t think it’s very many people’s favorite color. It just doesn’t have enough hue or character to generate any strong feelings. There’s just a lot of indifference and apathy. You need more to work with to even rise to the level of ambivalence. Excite, intrigue, disgust, or offend, but please don’t bore me. That’s the last thing a color choice or headphone should do.

 

[LXMc]

The other thing about the bass being enough with stock sound is because of the whole balance. If you’re going to spike the mids than it’s going to actually make the bass seem less prominent and then need to spike the bass to counterbalance it. Harman setting loses all the nuances and missing some of the warmth as well. I get why Zach moves on from this curve. It’s not terrible but not great either. Like so many things, the most popular is usually just average at best.

What made me laugh going through the thread over there was seeing one user who listed 5 different headphones in their signature and a statement that they were all EQ'd to Harman. Like...why even have them all at that point?!?

 

[zach915m]

I get why Zach moves on from this curve. It’s not terrible but not great either.

Just to clarify my stance, it's not that I have moved away from it intentionally or vice versa, I just use it as a data point along the way of tuning a headphone. There's certain very specific things I find sound and work better in open and closed headphone systems for dynamic and planar drivers, but they dont always carry over to every project within that same system.

Staying on topic, with the Caldera and the Atrium amping system, I've found that ramping up the upper mids more to meet Harman, or adding in more bass makes the headphone sound unnaturally heavy and harsh to my ear.

But that's my ear and it's all a FWIW YMMV thing and I absolutely think of any user EQs the Caldera to Harman because they like it more than that's absolutely great. The distortion is certainly low enough to do it without consequence, while with the Verite headphones being dynamic, I usually try to make sure the owner/future owner likes that sound sig since EQ doesn't work quite as well since the nature of the dynamic driver isn't quite as EQ-able.

The Caldera Closed will be slightly closer to Harman but ofcourse not adhere to it. It's going to be a really fun sounding headphone.

 

[iamoneagain]

Well that’s why I had to try it just to be sure I knew what I’m talking about. I was more surprised the Harman curve didn’t completely change the headphones. I still very much enjoy them with the Harman curve and have now found some songs even sound better. It’s just the same albums I had trouble with on the Expanse also have trouble with Caldera and Harman curve. I wouldn’t consider the Harman curve beige or vanilla (I love vanilla). It more what I’d call a pop sound. Elevate the bass and mids and try to make it really exciting. This is why Armim said the Caldera sounds boring in comparison.

So I won’t say you moved away from the Harman curve but I like that the final sound is more subtle and takes into consideration the enclosure and air flow. The Harman curve does still work and even some may actually end up preferring after trying it. But if all headphones were delivered with this sound, it would definitely then be more about the look and feel and could see people sharing their favorite EQ settings more. I personally like to try to find a headphone that already sounds great than to EQ it after.