ZMF Caldera - New Planar Magnetic from ZMF!
Dec 2, 2023 at 10:45 PM Post #5,746 of 7,609
Haha the end game posts are truly annoying. Everyone thinks they reached endgame because they bought two $300 headphones and kept the one they liked better. It's like if someone test drove a Corolla and Civic, bought the Civic, and then posted on r/cars "hey bois I've found my car endgame, Civic is as good as it gets for me, I'm out of the car game for life, much peace and love to you still on your car journey!"

r/headphones is worthless as a source of accurate information. It's basically an echo chamber of young people who have just bought their first headphone and read a few ASR articles. Last week a user asked how to get better quality music than YouTube and I advised him to pick a service which offers lossless music. Immediately had several users reply to me that lossless is unnecessary because "science has shown" nobody can hear the difference between 320kpbs and lossless. I didn't reply but I really wanted to say ... if you believe that why are you in this hobby? Is it fun for you to tell people nothing matters and they can't hear anything over and over again? If nothing makes a difference and everything's a scam / placebo, why do you even want to discuss it?

/rant

I would not clump loseless/high bitrate together with variation in FRC. For most people it is probably true that they can't actually distinguish between 192 and loseless in any reliable way. However even inexperienced listeners can distinguish FRC.

Now I am pretty well off so I can afford a Tidal and a Spotify sub at the same time. I also know I personally cannot reliably tell bitrates apart (my loving wife has tested me on this with my own music collection and I failed the NPR bit rate test). I keep both for other reasons. But for someone who doesn't have much money (or even if they do) they should probably first test and see, hey can I really tell a difference or am I just the naked emperor.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 1:42 AM Post #5,747 of 7,609
If I were someone who poured my love of music and passion for making headphones into my work I'd be incredibly frustrated with a site like ASR. Not because of their science, or how they insist on their view of objectivity, but

BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T HEARD THE HEADPHONES.

I think that's the one great difference between this site and theirs. We have objectivists and subjectivists, but I find most of the people here are speaking from experience with an actual product. That "poll" is a blubbering shamble, as I'd say about 4 people who took the poll have actually listened to the Caldera. The rest just read a subjective article by someone who's taste clearly doesn't align with mine.

Going to the last couple canjams and watching the ZMF room packed with happy people, smiles, and sonic bliss tells me more than Amir ever could. I purchased the Caldera from 2022's Canjam after listening and doing a head to head with the Atrium open. The fact that I bought the most expensive headphone I've ever purchased AFTER I listened to it should be worth 1,000 graphs. I thank each and every person on this thread who's spent time with the Caldera and posted their opinions, good or bad.

Zach should sleep well knowing that no matter how toxic certain parts of the internet can be, the people who truly matter (the ones who've listened to his creation) love his work. Keep up the good work, ZMF.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 2:30 AM Post #5,748 of 7,609
If I were someone who poured my love of music and passion for making headphones into my work I'd be incredibly frustrated with a site like ASR. Not because of their science, or how they insist on their view of objectivity, but

BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T HEARD THE HEADPHONES.

I think that's the one great difference between this site and theirs. We have objectivists and subjectivists, but I find most of the people here are speaking from experience with an actual product. That "poll" is a blubbering shamble, as I'd say about 4 people who took the poll have actually listened to the Caldera. The rest just read a subjective article by someone who's taste clearly doesn't align with mine.

Going to the last couple canjams and watching the ZMF room packed with happy people, smiles, and sonic bliss tells me more than Amir ever could. I purchased the Caldera from 2022's Canjam after listening and doing a head to head with the Atrium open. The fact that I bought the most expensive headphone I've ever purchased AFTER I listened to it should be worth 1,000 graphs. I thank each and every person on this thread who's spent time with the Caldera and posted their opinions, good or bad.

Zach should sleep well knowing that no matter how toxic certain parts of the internet can be, the people who truly matter (the ones who've listened to his creation) love his work. Keep up the good work, ZMF.
Appreciate you, much love!

The 'right and wrong' of it and the assumption that every zmf owner is someone who was convinced by some fancy marketing scheme or YouTube is what bothers me the most.

But I've said my piece and it indeed is time to move on for me.

Tomorrow is an exciting day, I'm going to sand a few more Atticus and Caldera stabilized with the hopes of having a mini batch in the next couple weeks as they both sold pretty fast and I've been getting emails to try to get a few more done, so I will. It'll be a great Sunday, sanding and finishing is my place of zen.
 
ZMFheadphones ZMF headphones hand-crafts wood headphones in Chicago, USA with special attention to exceptional sound and craftsmanship. Stay updated on ZMFheadphones at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/ZMFheadphones https://twitter.com/ZMFheadphones https://www.instagram.com/zmfheadphones/?hl=en http://www.zmfheadphones.com/zmf-originals/ contactzmf@gmail.com
Dec 3, 2023 at 3:59 AM Post #5,749 of 7,609
I respect Amir for putting the time and effort into trying to create some sort of scientific method and watchdogging against snake oil products, but honestly almost all the things in this hobby that have connected with me in an emotional way are things he would likely have issues with technically. Music, like all art forms, can't be charted and contained into neat little rules that are applicable for everyone. Sure, you can measure things like distortion, but you can't measure how those distortions on graphs will engage a listener. Also, the argument of reaching a true neutral to let the artist's intentions shine through is pretty silly to me. Musicians and engineers are working off all sorts of equipment in different listening environments. Go after what makes you feel the music - THAT is the artist's ultimate intention. I work in video and there are similar arguments about color reproduction on all the screens and phones. You can calibrate your screen as much as you want, but you will never know how audiences are experiencing your content. With auditory senses every one of us have unique ear canals, varying degrees of hearing loss, environmental variables, sinus pressures, jungles of ear hair. We are locked into our own subjective reality when it comes to experiencing how the world sounds.

The Caldera is one of the few headphones that grabbed me as soon as I put it on. I was stunned by how it somehow married the elements I loved from dynamic drivers and planars. It is the only headphone that I can guarantee will be on my head every day of the year right now.

I wish more people in this hobby were as chill/friendly/devoted as Zach, Bevin and the rest of the ZMF folks. Zach is someone who tunes headphones to the music not to targets on charts. He treats headphone making like instrument making. If that aligns with your personal beliefs, you may find happiness in a pair of ZMFs. There are a lot of things science can explain, but there are equal things science hasn't been the answer to for me personally.

Let's all live in harmony on or off the curve.
 
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Dec 3, 2023 at 5:03 AM Post #5,750 of 7,609
If I were someone who poured my love of music and passion for making headphones into my work I'd be incredibly frustrated with a site like ASR. Not because of their science, or how they insist on their view of objectivity, but

BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T HEARD THE HEADPHONES.

I think that's the one great difference between this site and theirs. We have objectivists and subjectivists, but I find most of the people here are speaking from experience with an actual product. That "poll" is a blubbering shamble, as I'd say about 4 people who took the poll have actually listened to the Caldera. The rest just read a subjective article by someone who's taste clearly doesn't align with mine.

Going to the last couple canjams and watching the ZMF room packed with happy people, smiles, and sonic bliss tells me more than Amir ever could. I purchased the Caldera from 2022's Canjam after listening and doing a head to head with the Atrium open. The fact that I bought the most expensive headphone I've ever purchased AFTER I listened to it should be worth 1,000 graphs. I thank each and every person on this thread who's spent time with the Caldera and posted their opinions, good or bad.

Zach should sleep well knowing that no matter how toxic certain parts of the internet can be, the people who truly matter (the ones who've listened to his creation) love his work. Keep up the good work, ZMF.
I'm glad someone else brought up the polls because that's the biggest issue I have with the website. The very first photo used in reviews has a pink panther figurine which already indicates what the review is going to be like. People see, for example, a postman panther which also happens to be one of the poll options and now magically that gets the most votes. It's a subconscious bias that's been happening for years now and certainly not the scientific way to do it.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 5:09 AM Post #5,751 of 7,609
BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T HEARD THE HEADPHONES.
This is probably my biggest issue with ASR. Their consensus opinion just seems dominated by group think versus actually listening and deciding for themselves.

There's even a section after each review whereby subscribers who state they never heard the device will nevertheless give it a rating based solely on having just read Amir's review parroting his comments.

There's no genuine attempt to actually test out their conclusions by listening and comparing to different gear. Subjective opinions averaged and summarized on a Harman curve is evidently pure science beyond reproach but our own conclusions apparently have no value in deciding which gear we prefer ourselves.
 
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Dec 3, 2023 at 5:53 AM Post #5,752 of 7,609
Another thing is that „the Harmon research proves the majority likes this“ is based on research data of people listening to speakers, IEMs and headphones, while it’s not clear to what percentage each group was represented.

Headphones, IEMs and speakers are very different in the way they connect to the listener, providing vastly different experiences which certainly is something a good designer considers during the design and tuning process. Not to speak of different presentations and tuning caviats of car and home speakers.

Amir tries to make his headphones to sound as close as possible to speakers, which is not something I would do in the first place.

All the objectivist science talk falls apart for me considering all the things and variables ASR crowd chooses to ignore. What’s left are sometimes useful FR graphs and lots of subjective preference of few discourse leaders that preach to the crowd how they should enjoy their music. To be honest It bugs me a bit they managed to get such a big follower base.
 
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Dec 3, 2023 at 7:33 AM Post #5,753 of 7,609
Musicians and engineers are working off all sorts of equipment in different listening environments.
In addition to this, don’t music professionals arrange the song digitally after recorded in the studio? Isn't what every musician's intentions on how their song should sound are different and based on their PERSONAL preferences. Don't you as a listener ever have that thing about a musician or a band where you love their songs but find their recording not so well? I for one LOVE Epica songs, but some of their albums don't sound well recorded to me. If that was the band's intention and taste, that's totally fine. But for me Whyzdom or After Forever or Eluveitie which are much less known symphonic metal bands, in some cases have better recordings than Epica's some songs, at least to my ears. It's all the same whether I listen them on the Caldera or HD600 or on my speakers. As a result, what the musician has intended is already far from objective and those people want to set a certain standard about how we hear things, it's weird.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 8:22 AM Post #5,754 of 7,609
Another thing is that „the Harmon research proves the majority likes this“ is based on research data of people listening to speakers, IEMs and headphones, while it’s not clear to what percentage each group was represented.

Headphones, IEMs and speakers are very different in the way they connect to the listener, providing vastly different experiences which certainly is something a good designer considers during the design and tuning process. Not to speak of different presentations and tuning caviats of car and home speakers.

Amir tries to make his headphones to sound as close as possible to speakers, which is not something I would do in the first place.

All the objectivist science talk falls apart for me considering all the things and variables ASR crowd chooses to ignore. What’s left are sometimes useful FR graphs and lots of subjective preference of few discourse leaders that preach to the crowd how they should enjoy their music. To be honest It bugs me a bit they managed to get such a big follower base.

This is misunderstanding the research. Firstly, many of the papers were headphones specific. secondly what was tested was listener preference not listener sense of headphone fidelity to speaker fidelity. Speakers were just used initially to model the target because that work was already done. The tough part is that the papers require you to get a membership to the audio engineers society (sadly this is an issue with all research - paywalls) which I'm currently working on getting so I can go through it.

I do think it's weird that people who haven't heard the headphones review it just based on FRC/measurements alone. In theory it makes sense that if you really know what your FRC preference is you can determine in general if you will like a pair of headphones but it still is weird to "review" them. Seems like a pointless exercise.
On the flip side, sighted listening reviews are also pretty useless because bias is so strong.

What's a boy to do.

ultimately though, amirs review made me more confident in my purchase. It looks like I can very easily EQ these headphones to whatever target I want to because they have excellent distortion performance. In my mind there really is no conflict here substantively even if there is one philosophically
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 8:34 AM Post #5,755 of 7,609
This is misunderstanding the research. Firstly, many of the papers were headphones specific. secondly what was tested was listener preference not listener sense of headphone fidelity to speaker fidelity. Speakers were just used initially to model the target because that work was already done. The tough part is that the papers require you to get a membership to the audio engineers society (sadly this is an issue with all research - paywalls) which I'm currently working on getting so I can go through it.

I do think it's weird that people who haven't heard the headphones review it just based on FRC/measurements alone. In theory it makes sense that if you really know what your FRC preference is you can determine in general if you will like a pair of headphones but it still is weird to "review" them. Seems like a pointless exercise.
On the flip side, sighted listening reviews are also pretty useless because bias is so strong.

What's a boy to do.

ultimately though, amirs review made me more confident in my purchase. It looks like I can very easily EQ these headphones to whatever target I want to because they have excellent distortion performance. In my mind there really is no conflict here substantively even if there is one philosophically
To my knowing the paper has no data of how many people from the pool listened to headphone, speaker or iem reproduction, the preference could vary depending on music reproduction device used. Which imho is essential for the conclusion "the majority likes this particular FR". But yes not having the research behind a paywall would be a nice start.

The review was fine and I dont think it will put off the few people who use ASR to decide on a totl headphone purchase, the issue for me personally was much more the tone, how adamant he is about rather questionable conclusions and the sheer arrogance.
 
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Dec 3, 2023 at 9:51 AM Post #5,756 of 7,609
To my knowing the paper has no data of how many people from the pool listened to headphone, speaker or iem reproduction, the preference could vary depending on music reproduction device used. Which imho is essential for the conclusion "the majority likes this particular FR". But yes not having the research behind a paywall would be a nice start.

The review was fine and I dont think it will put off the few people who use ASR to decide on a totl headphone purchase, the issue for me personally was much more the tone, how adamant he is about rather questionable conclusions and the sheer arrogance.

There are actually multiple papers it's not just one where did all sorts of different transducers. Most of the papers are specific to headphones.

Yeah the tone can get spicy. I do believe that frequency response curves tell us a lot about what the headphone will sound like with the grain of salt that it requires the listener to know what their own preferences are. I am not sure I believe that every headphone needs to be tuned to the harmon curve to get a recommendation but knowing the curve is a very useful metric for estimating if something will sound good knowing what sort of preference curves a listener prefers personally.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 10:23 AM Post #5,757 of 7,609
There are actually multiple papers it's not just one where did all sorts of different transducers. Most of the papers are specific to headphones.

Yeah the tone can get spicy. I do believe that frequency response curves tell us a lot about what the headphone will sound like with the grain of salt that it requires the listener to know what their own preferences are. I am not sure I believe that every headphone needs to be tuned to the harmon curve to get a recommendation but knowing the curve is a very useful metric for estimating if something will sound good knowing what sort of preference curves a listener prefers personally.
Sorry to prolong this discussion, but one thing I’m struggling with is the idea that knowing a headphone’s tonality in relation to the Harman curve means you can guess how the headphones sound. As a new Caldera owner as well as owner of Harman darling Expanse, it seems to me there is so much more to the experience of listening to these headphones than the frequency response. The damping used in both headphones has a large impact on the way sound is conveyed. The Expanse sound like a well treated room, while the Caldera in my short time sound more like a stage in a hall. Is that just a subjective statement, or is it something that can be measured but not yet? What I’m saying is there’s data that is not represented by frequency response.

Anyway, I’m far from a scientist, I’m barely even a functional human most days, but this is what I don’t get about the “objectivist” viewpoint. An objective standard target may be desirable, but the target chosen is not a full data set. So how and why is that the only standard?
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 10:58 AM Post #5,758 of 7,609
Sorry to prolong this discussion, but one thing I’m struggling with is the idea that knowing a headphone’s tonality in relation to the Harman curve means you can guess how the headphones sound. As a new Caldera owner as well as owner of Harman darling Expanse, it seems to me there is so much more to the experience of listening to these headphones than the frequency response. The damping used in both headphones has a large impact on the way sound is conveyed. The Expanse sound like a well treated room, while the Caldera in my short time sound more like a stage in a hall. Is that just a subjective statement, or is it something that can be measured but not yet? What I’m saying is there’s data that is not represented by frequency response.

Anyway, I’m far from a scientist, I’m barely even a functional human most days, but this is what I don’t get about the “objectivist” viewpoint. An objective standard target may be desirable, but the target chosen is not a full data set. So how and why is that the only standard?
It's fairly simple in that my work with the Atrium damping system and my methods of damping are the opposite of DCA, where DCA pays attention to front damping and manipulation via a patented tech, I pay attention to rear damping via a patented tech and much less on front damping (and yes we both utilize both). Is there a right or wrong, absolutely not! DCA headphones are awesome, and I hope people like ZMF's too.

My work with the Atrium damping system largely focuses on impulse response, CSD's, and transient response that has a lot to do with how the air-flow exits the driver and at what speed and where and on what "level" it's damped and in what direction, so my final tuning even though I always try and pay attention to Harman, deviates from it because of the tuning methods I've created. And ofcourse at times it leads me closer to harman, like with the BOKEH and Atrium Closed, and other times leads me further away like with the Verite series.

What the earpads do by changing material is changing the "reflection" of the room in pretty vast ways along with the room size, shape, and angle. Whenever I am at a show and someone who hasn't had the experience before of swapping pads they are always shocked by how much of a change it makes, and almost never will a small group of people agree on which of the many pads we offer is the "right" one.

I am fully aware that I've spent the majority of my time in practice, and not in theory, and this same stuff came up when I was making films as well, the theory side and the practice side are always going to clash and generally it's healthy and leads to better things as the answer is always somewhere in the middle.

I also am confident that the Atrium damping system, in allowing me to more precisely tune each headphone to, or from the Harman target is a benefit, and has allowed me to make some of my best work. But I can also be aware that I haven't spent the time to prove ADS via peer-reviewed research so many will question it. The same is true for most new practical implementations in many fields. This is why my soapbox is always going to be to keep an open mind either way with this stuff, it'll allow me to be better at my main goal of making headphones.
 
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ZMFheadphones ZMF headphones hand-crafts wood headphones in Chicago, USA with special attention to exceptional sound and craftsmanship. Stay updated on ZMFheadphones at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/ZMFheadphones https://twitter.com/ZMFheadphones https://www.instagram.com/zmfheadphones/?hl=en http://www.zmfheadphones.com/zmf-originals/ contactzmf@gmail.com
Dec 3, 2023 at 11:10 AM Post #5,759 of 7,609
What I DO know without a doubt, scientifically, existentially, exophilistically - is that the new amp that @L0rdGwyn delivered to ZMF yesterday defies all laws of human existence, I literally can't believe how amazing it is.

I went with a color called "Caldera:"
1701619510629.png


And wow! It's a volcano exploding in my brain every time I've used it so far. I've need a wet towel and a bath half a dozen times in the last day from this thing.

But really @L0rdGwyn you're a legend - and for those in awe of his work as I often am we are working on a Caldera driving commercial version of the "Aegis" which should be released in Q1 this coming year. The Aegis is defined by ample power (it even drives the Tungsten) and a mind-bending-blowing large stage while keeping a firm grip on the low end. I'm beyond excited for it and it's this kind of stuff that keeps me going at tough times of the year like this when things are just busy and stressful!

Aegis thread link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aegis-diy-tube-headphone-amplifier.965530/

Here's some quick pics of the "Air-Universe; Caldera Edition." I will have pics of the Aegis in a few weeks as well which will be widely available.

Seven!!!!!! Count em seven Monolith Magnetics transformers. Holy moly...yes it's heavy.
20231203_095507.jpg

Sauce shot of the cool transformer covers.

20231203_095513.jpg

This one my be a little out of focus, volume knob on the left and impedance selector on the right.
20231203_095518.jpg
 
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ZMFheadphones ZMF headphones hand-crafts wood headphones in Chicago, USA with special attention to exceptional sound and craftsmanship. Stay updated on ZMFheadphones at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/ZMFheadphones https://twitter.com/ZMFheadphones https://www.instagram.com/zmfheadphones/?hl=en http://www.zmfheadphones.com/zmf-originals/ contactzmf@gmail.com
Dec 3, 2023 at 11:24 AM Post #5,760 of 7,609
Here's some quick pics of the "Air-Universe; Caldera Edition." I will have pics of the Aegis in a few weeks as well which will be widely available.
I really think you should draw in an “11” on those volume knobs. Just sayin’
 

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