[Sharppain]

As someone who has litigated many a contract dispute and ready many contracts over the years, I don't think these are remotely extensive terms.



Exactly, and ZMF would be asking for trouble if he didn't have a provision prohibiting returns for these sorts of reasons. As the discussion around the looks of the three different models in this thread has made clear, people have very different aesthetic tastes. The order form allows customers to add any sort of "note" that they wish, and online orders are final presumably before notes are reviewed. So if I included a note that I wanted a kingwood set with sapwood, but all of those sets are gone by the time my order is prepared and shipped, ZMF should still be allowed to send me a perfectly working kingwood set even if it didn't meet the specifications of my note. Same goes in the scenario where I note that I want a dark set, and ZMF sends me the darkest remaining set, but I still don't think it's dark enough. It's not a bespoke process where you get to see iterative pictures of your unit as it's prepared, and Zach has been clear over the years that ZMF isn't at that stage yet.

One alternative, of course, would be to just make everything look exactly the same like almost every other headphone manufacturer out there, but then while the headphones would still sound amazing (IMHO), they would lose a lot of their character and charm.



The hype is big, and that's not a bad thing. Hype should be big when a quality product gets released. Good for ZMF, and honestly, given the competition point @Monsterzero made last night, good for the other headphone manufacturers too because hopefully they'll see and hear the Atrium and the Caldera and continue to refine their flagship models too.

Well, good that some replies were given.
But I am quite surprised that all the elaborations go in the direction of color, sanding, is it dark enough, ... and any other highly subjective matter. Is that the big value in that headphones? Especially when warranty is valid only for the first owner!!!
I had in mind tangible things like warranty policy that is covering dynamic drivers but not planar (what a typo which is a way out) and terms like "any purchase cannot be cancelled, returned or refunded in any way." The "in any way' provision is not only extensive, it is highly unclear. And that is on-top of a warranty valid only for the first owner!

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I own a Susvara and feel the same way you do. I realize I might be in the minority, but for me the D8000 Pro betters the Susvara in resolution and adds impact and liveliness. I defintely prefer the D8000 pro. That said, I would not disparage the Susvara. I do not use mine much, but I certainly respect it.

Now, because this is a ZMF thread, I have a question. I like bright sound, but rich. I do not like boosted lower midrange that congests vocals. I do like impact/slam, value clarity above all else, and generally, I prefer a neutral sound. I do not like treble roll-off, but I do not want it to stick out either. If anything, I prefer forward midrange to recessed. I have heard some say the Atrium or Auteur Classic would be a great choice for me. I hear people clambering for a Caldera Closed - is one scheduled to come out? If so, is there an idea about how it might sound?

For people who have heard the D8000 Pro, given how much I like it, can someone recommend which ZMF headphone that might sound most similar? Only flaw I find is D8000 Pro vocals a little too chesty and I'd like mids a touch more forward, while remaining natural.

Thanks for any help.

If that the case, Verite Open with BE2 pad may become your answer. Still, do not expect brightness like Susvara though.

 

[zach915m]

Well, good that some replies were given.
But I am quite surprised that all the elaborations go in the direction of color, sanding, is it dark enough, ... and any other highly subjective matter. Is that the big value in that headphones? Especially when warranty is valid only for the first owner!!!
I had in mind tangible things like warranty policy that is covering dynamic drivers but not planar (what a typo which is a way out) and terms like "any purchase cannot be cancelled, returned or refunded in any way." The "in any way' provision is not only extensive, it is highly unclear. And that is on-top of a warranty valid only for the first owner!

I amended the policy to not be driver type specific.

I think if you ask around, you'll find that we support first owner and second/third etc owner headphones very well. My goal is always to do work for as affordably as possible, and to make sure our headphones are in good shape.

They are built moduarly so most repairs can be done by the owner. Certain things like driver repair and mag chassis swaps we do prefer to do in house.

If you're unsure about our headphones I would recommend buying the stock wood models, with return policies attached.

 

[ColSaulTigh]

Well, good that some replies were given.
But I am quite surprised that all the elaborations go in the direction of color, sanding, is it dark enough, ... and any other highly subjective matter. Is that the big value in that headphones? Especially when warranty is valid only for the first owner!!!
I had in mind tangible things like warranty policy that is covering dynamic drivers but not planar (what a typo which is a way out) and terms like "any purchase cannot be cancelled, returned or refunded in any way." The "in any way' provision is not only extensive, it is highly unclear. And that is on-top of a warranty valid only for the first owner!

Sounds like ZMF isn't for you. Might want to look elsewhere for a hand-built, USA-produced, small business created headphone who's owner not only chats here regularly, but DIRECTLY answered your question and concern. I'm sure Hifiman will be happy to cater to your concerns.

I amended the policy to not be driver type specific.

I think if you ask around, you'll find that we support first owner and second/third etc owner headphones very well. My goal is always to do work for as affordably as possible, and to make sure our headphones are in good shape.

They are built moduarly so most repairs can be done by the owner. Certain things like driver repair and mag chassis swaps we do prefer to do in house.

If you're unsure about our headphones I would recommend buying the stock wood models, with return policies attached.

If that's not good enough for you, then ZMF never will be.

 

[SlothRock]

Well, good that some replies were given.
But I am quite surprised that all the elaborations go in the direction of color, sanding, is it dark enough, ... and any other highly subjective matter. Is that the big value in that headphones? Especially when warranty is valid only for the first owner!!!
I had in mind tangible things like warranty policy that is covering dynamic drivers but not planar (what a typo which is a way out) and terms like "any purchase cannot be cancelled, returned or refunded in any way." The "in any way' provision is not only extensive, it is highly unclear. And that is on-top of a warranty valid only for the first owner!

If you search around the thousands of ZMF threads in head-fi and outside of head-fi, you will easily find that ZMF not only has some of the best build quality in the industry but has one of, if not THE best, warranties for their products as well. I don't know any other manufacturer with a lifetime driver warranty for any owner, even the first owner. Focal has 3-5 years, Hifiman has 3 years for example and those are for $5k and $6k headphones. Any perceived ambiguity isn't something that I could ever see ZMF using to try and wriggle out of helping repair a headphone.

 

[gonintendo]

I have a problem with the Caldera: every pad I try becomes my favorite after listening for a while. I can't choose a favorite! (I guess this is a pretty good problem to have)

 

[heliosphann]

I have a problem with the Caldera: every pad I try becomes my favorite after listening for a while. I can't choose a favorite! (I guess this is a pretty good problem to have)

Once again, quit stealing my material!

CALDERA PAD REVIEW (Mini Edition)​

So which set of pads was my favorite for the Caldera? Easy, whichever one was on my head. I know, I know. That sounds like a cop out answer, but I honestly thought all four pads that I tested were exceptional.

 

[gonintendo]

Once again, quit stealing my material!

Just when I thought I had an original idea!

 

[rustydabear]

M

Sounds like ZMF isn't for you. Might want to look elsewhere for a hand-built, USA-produced, small business created headphone who's owner not only chats here regularly, but DIRECTLY answered your question and concern. I'm sure Hifiman will be happy to cater to your concerns.


If that's not good enough for you, then ZMF never will be.

very well said ColSaulTigh!

 

[Sharppain]

Sounds like ZMF isn't for you. Might want to look elsewhere for a hand-built, USA-produced, small business created headphone who's owner not only chats here regularly, but DIRECTLY answered your question and concern. I'm sure Hifiman will be happy to cater to your concerns.


If that's not good enough for you, then ZMF never will be.

Dear ColSaulTigh,
I really admire that Zach replied. If I like the answers or not I will keep to my self.
I do not admire your attitude - typical 'shut up' rudeness. Who are you to tell what is for me or not!? How come that you decided that I have Hifiman for a benchmark but not Denon, Focal or Stax. Poor reading of the questions, poor assumptions ColSaulTigh.

 

[aloki]

Well, good that some replies were given.
But I am quite surprised that all the elaborations go in the direction of color, sanding, is it dark enough, ... and any other highly subjective matter. Is that the big value in that headphones? Especially when warranty is valid only for the first owner!!!
I had in mind tangible things like warranty policy that is covering dynamic drivers but not planar (what a typo which is a way out) and terms like "any purchase cannot be cancelled, returned or refunded in any way." The "in any way' provision is not only extensive, it is highly unclear. And that is on-top of a warranty valid only for the first owner!

That clause in the purchase policy applies to headphones with the “new release discount.” If you check some of the other headphones that aren’t new, you’ll notice that the box has different content. The new release discount is something ZMF does with… its new releases. If that concerns you, like Zach said, purchase at full price or wait for the new release discount to lapse, and then you can check their regular return policy.

 

[YtseJamer]

I’m quite happy with my caldera. I don’t expect it to be in the same level is abyss tc or susvara and I don’t want to spend $5500-$6000 on headphones. Even if zmf releases a totl headphone for $5000 I will probably avoid it. I think with one minor tweak these would probably be my end game. Switching back and forth from atrium I feel like I’m missing that upper mid peak for guitar sound. There’s a certain bit of crunch missing on certain guitar sounds. On others it is fine. I don’t think it needs a huge peak but even less so than atrium would be fine. I’m not sure I’d call these dark but if these are dark I don’t think I could handle a totl from someone else.

Thanks a lot for your feedback and objectivity

For me the total price is $5000. I would be willing to buy the Caldera, but only if I knew that the tuning is well aligned with my preferences since I'm not EQing my headphones. I cannot stand headphones with recessed upper mids, and I know I would be pissed if they don't have enough bites with the electric guitars. I have purchased the Atrium "blindly" and thank god they are totally aligned with my preferences, but I will not do that again with an expensive headphone like the Caldera because I cannot afford to lose $500/$600 in resale value at the end if I don't like them.

 

[Raidersfan8118]

Thanks a lot for your feedback and objectivity

For me the total price is $5000. I would be willing to buy the Caldera, but only if I knew that the tuning is well aligned with my preferences since I'm not EQing my headphones. I cannot stand headphones with recessed upper mids, and I know I would be pissed if they don't have enough bites with the electric guitars. I have purchased the Atrium "blindly" and thank god they are totally aligned with my preferences, but I will not do that again with an expensive headphone like the Caldera because I cannot afford to lose $500/$600 in resale value at the end if I don't like them.

It’s so hard to guess on if something sounds right for you in certain areas. Seems like a lot of people can be sensitive to upper mids but someone like me doesn’t want them necessarily laid back. I also think there’s a fine line with upper mids causing some fatigue.

 

[Monsterzero]

Well, good that some replies were given.
But I am quite surprised that all the elaborations go in the direction of color, sanding, is it dark enough, ... and any other highly subjective matter. Is that the big value in that headphones? Especially when warranty is valid only for the first owner!!!
I had in mind tangible things like warranty policy that is covering dynamic drivers but not planar (what a typo which is a way out) and terms like "any purchase cannot be cancelled, returned or refunded in any way." The "in any way' provision is not only extensive, it is highly unclear. And that is on-top of a warranty valid only for the first owner!

The ZMF sound might not be for everyone, but as far as customer service goes, there are none better, and I'm not speaking strictly within the headphone hobby either. If you're opting to not buy a ZMF based upon some perceived notion that their terms and policies are somehow created to screw over the customer, then I don't see you being satisfied with any company.

 

[YtseJamer]

It’s so hard to guess on if something sounds right for you in certain areas. Seems like a lot of people can be sensitive to upper mids but someone like me doesn’t want them necessarily laid back. I also think there’s a fine line with upper mids causing some fatigue.

I'm also a bit sensitive to shoutiness in the upper mids, but I like them to be on the edge. For example, I cannot stand the upper mids of the HD600, the Focal Clear, Utopia and the older generation of Grado headphones. But the upper mids of the Atrium and the Grado RS2x are perfect for my tastes.