[burialcloud]

I highly doubt running them in is going to magically add 3.5db to the sub bass, I can't stress enough how eq'ing the moonlight to mahina bass boost has them sounding exactly in line with what they should

Graphs are usually deceiving as far as actual real world listening experience. Again most reviewers are hard pressed to tell the difference between the moonlight and mahina in a direct comparison. Internally (and externally) they are identical with the only difference being a single change on the crossover circuit board and the screen printed branding.

You’ll need to contact Yanyin. None of us can really help you, and you seem quite convinced.

Burning them in will absolutely add more bass as the dynamic driver stretches into its full range of extension. Lots of articles around headfi specifically discussing the increased bass response after burn in with dynamics.

Also 3.5db is a barely humanly perceptible amount. Especially in sub bass on an iem.

But like I said, you seem quite convinced and I doubt we’re going to change your mind, so I’d just talk to Yanyin.

 

[Alchempissed]

yanyin preparing something new for the release?

Is that a legit hip-shot question or do you have reason to believe they are?

 

[Jayden97]

Graphs are usually deceiving as far as actual real world listening experience. Again most reviewers are hard pressed to tell the difference between the moonlight and mahina in a direct comparison. Internally (and externally) they are identical with the only difference being a single change on the crossover circuit board and the screen printed branding.

You’ll need to contact Yanyin. None of us can really help you, and you seem quite convinced.

Burning them in will absolutely add more bass as the dynamic driver stretches into its full range of extension. Lots of articles around headfi specifically discussing the increased bass response after burn in with dynamics.

Also 3.5db is a barely humanly perceptible amount. Especially in sub bass on an iem.

But like I said, you seem quite convinced and I doubt we’re going to change your mind, so I’d just talk to Yanyin.

Add a 3.5db bass shelf to any iem, the difference is obvious even to my crappy ears lol, on a site where people claim burn in and cables make a difference i'm being told an actual large measurable difference isn't noticeable??

 

[Jayden97]

Hi, I recently recieved my yanyin x hbb mahinas and as crazy as this sounds I suspect they're mislabeled moonlights due to the lack of bass, the low end shouldn't sound this thin and gutless, I am comparing it to my moondrop variatioins which I eq'd roughly to the mahinas, and after hearing the real thing I would say I did a decent job at replicating the sound, yet the variations sound absolutely HUGE on the low end in comparison, night and day difference

After suspecting they could be moonlights, I eq'd them to the mahinas target and now they sound spot on with how I'd expect them to sound in the first place, the sub bass is on par with the variations like the measurments show

Could they really have mixed them up like this? it seems so unlikely, I don't know what to think

Does anyone else own both the variations and mahinas and can verify if theirs sounds like this

Update, had a pair of blon bl-03 arrive that I bought for when exercising, once again despite measuring lower than the mahinas on the sub bass, they actually have audible 40hz notes whereas the mahinas don't, and I can't even get a good seal on the bl-03's...

Also eq'ing the mid bass down to the mahinas target if not more still sounds so much more powerful than my mahinas, once again pushing me to believe they have moonlight tuned mid bass

I've obviously already got in contact with the manufacturer before posting here, just wanted to know others thoughts/opinions and whats happened here

 

[burialcloud]

Add a 3.5db bass shelf to any iem, the difference is obvious even to my crappy ears lol, on a site where people claim burn in and cables make a difference i'm being told an actual large measurable difference isn't noticeable??

Without getting into specifics… as far as sub bass on iems goes…yea. Do some research on frequency and loudness perception. Our ears are designed to best register loudness differences in the mids. Testing shows the most loudness perceptibility in humans from 300-3000 hz. Our ability to determine loudness is exponentially rolled off above or below that.

Combine that with what is known about dB and how our brains actually interpret something like a 3.5 dB boost in the sub bass frequencies at around 90 dB or more listening levels… And the difference is gonna be barely perceptible. Not the huge difference you seem to be experiencing.

I have however, personally heard that much of a bass loss even with a seemingly GOOD SEAL from various tips I’ve tried. Some of which actually had a great seal, but the bass response was incredibly diminished. Are you using stock tips? What tips have you tried?

I never personally said you could tell a difference between cables, but most of the differences people describe are in those mids and treble regions, because our ears are designed to pick up the most variation there.

Proper burn in can EASILY lead to a 3.5 db boost in the low end extension. Which again is a very small amount at normal listening levels.

I mix and master music, have pretty discerning ears, and score two decades younger than I am on listening tests (I’m 39 and score like a 18 yo on my hearing tests). I’m not saying it’s impossible to tell a difference of 3.5 dB, but it’s hard. And it’s nowhere near the difference you claim you’re hearing. But ultimately, again your mind is made up and it seems no one else has experienced this. Best of luck on figuring it out.

For the rest of us we seem quite happy with plenty of bass on our moonlights and I can assure you that we aren’t experiencing bassless/gutless music on them.

Also lots of reviews out there specifically mentioning how there is much more and better quality bass on the moonlights than variations. Which is why it would seem there is something else going on here. Either a bad set, a bad seal, or some other issue and/or incompatibility.

Also I’m assuming you know that these iems actually seem to provide the best/fullest sound at a low gain setting on your dap, and may arguably be better with an unbalanced cable? Both higher output amps and balanced cables have been documented to thin out the entire Yanyin product range due to their very low impedance. They arguably sound better with a dongle rather than a high end amp or dap with a high output. I don’t use my stock balanced cable for this exact reason and have much better results with a copper 3.5 cable. (I use the Nicehck spacecloud or a kbear hazy).

 

[Jayden97]

Without getting into specifics… as far as sub bass on iems goes…yea. Do some research on frequency and loudness perception. Our ears are designed to best register loudness differences in the mids. Testing shows the most loudness perceptibility in humans from 300-3000 hz. Our ability to determine loudness is exponentially rolled off above or below that.

Combine that with what is known about dB and how our brains actually interpret something like a 3.5 dB boost in the sub bass frequencies at around 90 dB or more listening levels… And the difference is gonna be barely perceptible. Not the huge difference you seem to be experiencing.

I have however, personally heard that much of a bass loss even with a seemingly GOOD SEAL from various tips I’ve tried. Some of which actually had a great seal, but the bass response was incredibly diminished. Are you using stock tips? What tips have you tried?

I never personally said you could tell a difference between cables, but most of the differences people describe are in those mids and treble regions, because our ears are designed to pick up the most variation there.

Proper burn in can EASILY lead to a 3.5 db boost in the low end extension. Which again is a very small amount at normal listening levels.

I mix and master music, have pretty discerning ears, and score two decades younger than I am on listening tests (I’m 39 and score like a 18 yo on my hearing tests). I’m not saying it’s impossible to tell a difference of 3.5 dB, but it’s hard. And it’s nowhere near the difference you claim you’re hearing. But ultimately, again your mind is made up and it seems no one else has experienced this. Best of luck on figuring it out.

For the rest of us we seem quite happy with plenty of bass on our moonlights and I can assure you that we aren’t experiencing bassless/gutless music on them.

Also lots of reviews out there specifically mentioning how there is much more and better quality bass on the moonlights than variations. Which is why it would seem there is something else going on here. Either a bad set, a bad seal, or some other issue and/or incompatibility.

Also I’m assuming you know that these iems actually seem to provide the best/fullest sound at a low gain setting on your dap, and may arguably be better with an unbalanced cable? Both higher output amps and balanced cables have been documented to thin out the entire Yanyin product range due to their very low impedance. They arguably sound better with a dongle rather than a high end amp or dap with a high output. I don’t use my stock balanced cable for this exact reason and have much better results with a copper 3.5 cable. (I use the Nicehck spacecloud or a kbear hazy).

Are you trying to convince me or yourself? because flicking the boosted bass shelf on and off is very obvious and i'm baffled someone is telling me its not, it's the difference between being able to hear the 40hz rumble vs not

Something i've noticed is a lot of the target audience for iems tuned like these don't listen to genres with big sub bass emphasis, so it wouldn't suprise me if they don't notice much of a difference

 

[Jayden97]

Without getting into specifics… as far as sub bass on iems goes…yea. Do some research on frequency and loudness perception. Our ears are designed to best register loudness differences in the mids. Testing shows the most loudness perceptibility in humans from 300-3000 hz. Our ability to determine loudness is exponentially rolled off above or below that.

Combine that with what is known about dB and how our brains actually interpret something like a 3.5 dB boost in the sub bass frequencies at around 90 dB or more listening levels… And the difference is gonna be barely perceptible. Not the huge difference you seem to be experiencing.

I have however, personally heard that much of a bass loss even with a seemingly GOOD SEAL from various tips I’ve tried. Some of which actually had a great seal, but the bass response was incredibly diminished. Are you using stock tips? What tips have you tried?

I never personally said you could tell a difference between cables, but most of the differences people describe are in those mids and treble regions, because our ears are designed to pick up the most variation there.

Proper burn in can EASILY lead to a 3.5 db boost in the low end extension. Which again is a very small amount at normal listening levels.

I mix and master music, have pretty discerning ears, and score two decades younger than I am on listening tests (I’m 39 and score like a 18 yo on my hearing tests). I’m not saying it’s impossible to tell a difference of 3.5 dB, but it’s hard. And it’s nowhere near the difference you claim you’re hearing. But ultimately, again your mind is made up and it seems no one else has experienced this. Best of luck on figuring it out.

For the rest of us we seem quite happy with plenty of bass on our moonlights and I can assure you that we aren’t experiencing bassless/gutless music on them.

Also lots of reviews out there specifically mentioning how there is much more and better quality bass on the moonlights than variations. Which is why it would seem there is something else going on here. Either a bad set, a bad seal, or some other issue and/or incompatibility.

Also I’m assuming you know that these iems actually seem to provide the best/fullest sound at a low gain setting on your dap, and may arguably be better with an unbalanced cable? Both higher output amps and balanced cables have been documented to thin out the entire Yanyin product range due to their very low impedance. They arguably sound better with a dongle rather than a high end amp or dap with a high output. I don’t use my stock balanced cable for this exact reason and have much better results with a copper 3.5 cable. (I use the Nicehck spacecloud or a kbear hazy).

I added 100ohms of resistance in series with them and boosted the output to get them back to listening levels, and even in that extreme scenario I honestly can't tell if the bass changed

 

[burialcloud]

Like I said, it seems you’ve already convinced yourself and I’m not sure what your purpose here is despite what you’ve stated about your intentions. I’m trying to offer possibilities of what could be going on but you keep ignoring them.

The huge difference you’re noticing (if there really is one) is likely due to either a bad seal/tip compatibility, bad source compatibility, lack of burn in, or a bad set of iems in general. None of us can diagnose or fix that for you.

I listen to all sorts of genres with various amounts of sub bass. As do many Yanyin moonlight owners. I also specifically work with them in those specific frequencies you say don’t exist while mixing, so I’m well aware of the moonlights capabilities. Probably more than most. And they have plenty of sub bass on tap without it being overbearing on the rest of the spectrum. Mahina very minimally accentuates that in a barely perceptible way according to numerous pro reviewers. They say there is a difference but it’s very subtle.

I have personally used squigs to tune my moonlights to mahina and found the difference negligible and that it was pointless to run in the background on my dap because there was no real benefit or major difference. I got much more of a bass response change by simple tip rolling.

Also it has been noted that moonlights (and mahina) have better bass response (and more of it) than variations. So yours either have an issue or there is a user issue upstream. Your set may have a problem. But it’s probably not being a moonlight set in disguise.

What are you trying to accomplish here? If you are so convinced that you got a bad set, sort it out with Yanyin. I’ve offered any help I can in sorting out your issue but you seem to want to only argue and belittle an iem you haven’t even heard. Which is pointless and futile.

 

[burialcloud]

I added 100ohms of resistance in series with them and boosted the output to get them back to listening levels, and even in that extreme scenario I honestly can't tell if the bass changed

That would absolutely not help anything. I work with electronics and run a guitar repair shop and design and work on amps, pedals, hifi equipment. Etc.
What you just described doing would actually have a detrimental effect given that yanyin prefer a low impedance output. Mismatching even further and trying to correct with a resistor/load is just going to make things worse.

 

[Jayden97]

That would absolutely not help anything. I work with electronics and run a guitar repair shop and design and work on amps, pedals, hifi equipment. Etc.
What you just described doing would actually have a detrimental effect given that yanyin prefer a low impedance output. Mismatching even further and trying to correct with a resistor/load is just going to make things worse.

I just did that as a test to show that your amplifier and cable don't make much of a perceivable difference, whereas adding a 3.5db does give a perceivable difference

 

[burialcloud]

I just did that as a test to show that your amplifier and cable don't make much of a perceivable difference, whereas adding a 3.5db does give a perceivable difference

you further mismatched the source and the iem. That isn’t the same as lowering the amps actual gain/impedance and actually makes the situation even worse. Your test only shows that you misunderstand the basic issue of impedance mismatch and using a higher output amp in the first place. And shows nothing about the balanced/unbalanced cable difference. Which is minimal comparative to impedance mismatch.
Run your dap on a low gain setting with a unbalanced 3.5 cable. Or just use a standard dongle on a phone. DONT rig some random resistor load and crank the amps gain even more to compensate. That is literally the opposite of what you’d want to do.

 

[Jayden97]

you further mismatched the source and the iem. That isn’t the same as lowering the amps actual gain/impedance and actually makes the situation even worse. Your test only shows that you misunderstand the basic issue of impedance mismatch and using a higher output amp in the first place. And shows nothing about the balanced/unbalanced cable difference. Which is minimal comparative to impedance mismatch.
Run your dap on a low gain setting with a unbalanced 3.5 cable. Or just use a standard dongle on a phone. DONT rig some random resistor load and crank the amps gain even more to compensate. That is literally the opposite of what you’d want to do.

I am using the 1v apple dongle at the moment, if adding 100ohm to simulate the worst cable and amp output resisntance possible didn't change the bass then nothing else will, I will gladly be sending these back to yanyin so they can see for themselves, whether it really is a mixup or just a qc issue that happens to put them in line with the moonlight

 

[burialcloud]

I am using the 1v apple dongle at the moment, if adding 100ohm didn't change the bass then nothing else will, I will gladly be sending these back to yanyin so they can see for themselves, whether it really is a mixup or just a qc issue that happens to put them in line with the moonlight

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/yanyin-discussion-thread.958874/page-88#post-16985127
Reference about the moonlight and impedance mismatch. (Both are 8ohms with the exact same speakers compliment)

Adding 100ohm is once again the EXACT OPPOSITE of what would do to fix an impedance mismatch. You are actually making the output voltage higher to compensate and the speakers (Yanyin) impedance even less by adding a resistor in series to each iem. Aka making an even larger mismatch. This will only make the issue even more obvious. You want to lower the output/amps impedance to match, not lower the speakers even more.

Yes, please send them back. But the type of glaring lack of bass you’re describing here doesn’t have anything to do with “putting them in line with moonlight” or you somehow receiving a moonlight set in disguise. It seems either a user upstream issue, or a bad set. But you’ve decided somehow you know exactly what moonlights must sound like although you’ve never used them. And won’t listen to any reasoning about what else could be causing the issue you describe. Best of luck.

 

[Jayden97]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/yanyin-discussion-thread.958874/page-88#post-16985127
Reference about the moonlight and impedance mismatch. (Both are 8ohms with the exact same speakers compliment)

Adding 100ohm is once again the EXACT OPPOSITE of what would do to fix an impedance mismatch. You are actually making the output voltage higher to compensate and the speakers (Yanyin) impedance even less by adding a resistor in series to each iem. Aka making an even larger mismatch. This will only make the issue even more obvious. You want to lower the output/amps impedance to match, not lower the speakers even more.

Yes, please send them back. But the type of glaring lack of bass you’re describing here doesn’t have anything to do with “putting them in line with moonlight” or you somehow receiving a moonlight set in disguise. It seems either a user upstream issue, or a bad set. But you’ve decided somehow you know exactly what moonlights must sound like although you’ve never used them. And won’t listen to any reasoning about what else could be causing the issue you describe. Best of luck.

I am doing the opposite to show that a lower output resistance isn't going to solve the issue

They have less bass just like the moonlight does, whats so hard to believe about that? if I eq the variations to the moonlight bass shelf they sound exactly like my pair of mahinas

You sound like you're taking my opinion on the bass personally, theres nothing wrong with the moonlights bass, I simply have a preference for more bass, since that is whats required to hear the notes I can hear clearly on my subwoofer an other iems

 

[burialcloud]

I am doing the opposite to show that a lower output resistance isn't going to solve the issue

They have less bass just like the moonlight does, whats so hard to believe about that? if I eq the variations to the moonlight bass shelf they sound exactly like my pair of mahinas

You sound like you're taking my opinion on the bass personally, theres nothing wrong with the moonlights bass, I simply have a preference for more bass, since that is whats required to hear the notes I can hear clearly on my subwoofer an other iem

I don’t know how to say this any clearer… what you tried is not lowering the output resistance. You’ve actually lowered the load impedance even further. Increasing the impedance mismatch even more.
Of course it didn’t “solve the issue”. It would only make it worse if anything. It’s literally the exact opposite of what you would want to try.

Definitely not taking any of this personally. I could care less what your opinion on an iem you’ve never heard is, your refusal to educate yourself on basic speaker load/impedance issues, or your strange certainty that it must be the source of your perceived lack of bass. I tried to give you some ideas about what might be possibly causing the issues you’re having while maintaining it’s possible you got a malfunctioning set, and you’d rather argue and reject any information that doesn’t reinforce this weird certainty you seem to have that you somehow got a moonlight marked as a mahina. Best of luck with it.