[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I have just swapped in the LM6172 and generally it's a nice upgrade, far more neutral and accurate than the JRC 2114. But I do feel that the resolution has actually gone down significant, maybe some burn in will solve that problem.

The recommendation for using the 6172 for the I/V was dependant on using the LT1361 for the buffer. Atleast I am pretty sure that is the model Alydon was using for the buffer.

 

[riderforever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I have just swapped in the LM6172 and generally it's a nice upgrade, far more neutral and accurate than the JRC 2114. But I do feel that the resolution has actually gone down significant, maybe some burn in will solve that problem.

What do you mean with resolution? I can't understand how they can sound more neutral, accurate but with less resolution. Isn't it related to accuracy?

 

[Filburt]

When you say swapping the LM4562 will not affect the headphone amplifier, do you mean that the headphone amplifier doesn't pull from the LPF stage with the LM4562 in it? If so, that's...kind of unusual.

 

[Alydon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar: Yeah, I have just swapped in the LM6172 and generally it's a nice upgrade, far more neutral and accurate than the JRC 2114. But I do feel that the resolution has actually gone down significant, maybe some burn in will solve that problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by riderforever /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you mean with resolution? I can't understand how they can sound more neutral, accurate but with less resolution. Isn't it related to accuracy?

I think he is referring to tonal accuracy across the frequency spectrum. They do seem to produce a flatter frequency response than the 2114's did. Although with my particular setup I do noticed a slight mid-bass hump around 200-400Hz from the 6172's and a small dip at 4-8KHz.

@scytheavatar, are you listening through the STX's HP out or through the RCA's? I'm surprised that you're experiencing a drop in overall resolution since for me it increased rather significantly. Could a change in the treble response explain what you're experiencing? I ask since the 2114's seemed to have more emphasis in the treble region than the 6172's do. But then, I've got about 30 hours or so of burn-in on the 6172's now and I do seem to hear more treble energy from them now then I did when I installed them last week.

And ROBSCIX is right, I was using the LT1361 in the buffer when I recommended the 6172, although I've since switched to the LT1364. The LM4562 sounds okay w/ them as well, but I'm not satisfied with that opamp's overall performance.

As for the 6172 being safe for this card, from what I can tell the STX has output caps after the opamps to regulate their output current, so most of the more common opamps recommend @Head-fi should be safe to use. I've been using them for a little over a week and have experienced no issues.

Quote:

Originally posted by Shahrose: Hey Alydon, just wanted to offer a suggestion if I may. I've found that the further one tweaks the sounds, the more one loses touch with the default sound and whether the tweaked sound is even better than the original. Right now it'd be interesting to see if you hear any decrease in SQ once you switch back to the default opamps, and therein lies my request.

@Shahrose, when I was trying out different opamps in the buffer spot I did occasionally switch back to the LM4562 to keep the original setup in mind. I stopped doing so though once I put the LM6172's in the I/V spots. I did use my Xonar HDAV sound card for a/b comparisons since its sonic signature is very similar to the default setup on the STX.

However, I did switch the STX back to its default opamps for a bit this weekend since it had been a while since I'd heard it. My notes are at home so I can't post my impressions atm. I do know that I still like the 1361/6172 setup better though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filburt /img/forum/go_quote.gif When you say swapping the LM4562 will not affect the headphone amplifier, do you mean that the headphone amplifier doesn't pull from the LPF stage with the LM4562 in it? If so, that's...kind of unusual.

That is our understanding, yes. The signal only goes through the LM4562 when you're using the RCA outs. When using the HP-out, the signal passes through the TI TPA6120A2 instead. I'm guessing the JRC 2114D's are used as both I/V and lpf.

 

[12Bass]

FWIW, my experience with the AD8599 suggests that it will be a bit warmer sounding than the LM4562, perhaps with a bit smoother midrange and maybe a bit more weight in the lows, while the LM4562 will have a flatter and maybe more sterile sound with more detail. Given what I've read about the transparency of the AD797, it appears that the AD8599 sounds fairly different even though it is supposed to be related by design. For the most part, I've preferred the LM4562 across a number of applications.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Testing opamps is part of the fun. I find that just because a opamp will sound one way in one design doesn't mean it will sound the same in another.
The only way to really know for sure is to try out the opamp in the card and listen for yourself.

I know many of use are testing behind the scenes and listening for awsome combinations.

 

[DarkRegion]

Dose anyone have a chart or know the various levels of power output at different levels of impedance for the cards amp?

This is all i could find on the cards amp
80 mW into 600 ohms From a ±12-V Supply at 0.00014% THD + N

Audio Amplifiers - Headphone Amplifiers - TPA6120A2 - TI.com

Dose anyone how many mw into 300 ohms, ect...?

It also says its output power is 1.5 watts.

 

[Alydon]

Dark, alas I'm not sure anyone has a chart like that since it's been asked for here a couple of times and has gotten no response. However, there's an equation at the top of page 18 on the datasheet available on the link you provided which might give you the answers if you fuddle w/ it a bit since it has each of the variables you're asking about. I'm too lazy to play w/ it myself atm though...

In any case, I see that this thread has slipped down to page 2 on the Computer forums, and we just can have that, can we?

So, I have some further impressions for you all.

I took Shahrose's advice and listened to the STX again in its default opamp configuration. Here are some notes I jotted down while listening to some Heart and Pink Floyd, compared to my favorite setup (1xLT1364, 2x6172):

Default (1xLM4562, 2xJRC 2114D)- decent treble presence, clear but it sounds brittle and scratchy. about the right amount of air. mid/upper bass hump, slightly muddled. Not much bass extension. Drums on DSotM's "On the Run" sound like static discharges, not actual drums.

Dreamboat Annie - bass guitar bloomy, indistinct. drums have good attack but lack oomph and body. accompanying instruments are pushed into a backdrop of music. Instruments are individual but are flat, 2d.

Wish you were here - Lacking dynamics, not as much passion or authority. Complex passages get muddle and indistinct, esp if there is a strong bass presence.

I also tried out 2xLT1364's in the I/V slot + 1x6172 in the buffer:

Music has taken two steps back. some bass extension lost. Sound seems constricted due to decay truncated too quickly, some detail lost, some instruments fade into background. primary instruments/voices are a little tighter in space if they don't fade away anyway. Soundstage is smaller, and more in front of you rather than around you. Soundstage itself is narrower. Some treble sibilance present that wasn't there before. Mids a little more recessed and indistinct.

Final Verdict: I still prefer the the LT1364 in the buffer, and 2xLM6172's in the I/V sockets.

 

[riderforever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alydon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Default (1xLM4562, 2xJRC 2114D)- decent treble presence, clear but it sounds brittle and scratchy. about the right amount of air. mid/upper bass hump, slightly muddled. Not much bass extension. Drums on DSotM's "On the Run" sound like static discharges, not actual drums. Dreamboat Annie - bass guitar bloomy, indistinct. drums have good attack but lack oomph and body. accompanying instruments are pushed into a backdrop of music. Instruments are individual but are flat, 2d. Wish you were here - Lacking dynamics, not as much passion or authority. Complex passages get muddle and indistinct, esp if there is a strong bass presence.

Aren't you exagerating a bit?
It looks like the soundcard @default sounds like rubbish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alydon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Final Verdict: I still prefer the the LT1364 in the buffer, and 2xLM6172's in the I/V sockets.

Do you still need to activate some additional effects, of after the burn-in these opamps sound good also in hifi mode?

 

[genclaymore]

Alydon you happen to have some OPA627aus that you can try in the buffer with 2x LT1364s? or 2xLM6172 because i was thinking of changing out the jrc in my I/V on my HDAV13

 

[chinesekiwi]

Hey Alydon, what's the detail difference like between your preferred combo of 2xLM6172 and 1xLT1364 and the stock setup?

Thinking of getting 3xLM6172.

 

[Alydon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by riderforever /img/forum/go_quote.gif Aren't you exagerating a bit? It looks like the soundcard @default sounds like rubbish Do you still need to activate some additional effects, of after the burn-in these opamps sound good also in hifi mode?

Yes, those descriptions are an exaggeration. They are meant to show the relative changes I detected in the sound compared to my preferred setup. They are mostly quite minor, and the default config still sounds wonderful and better than any other sound card I've heard.

And no, I no longer have any room/echo effects or anything else enabled. The 6172's have opened up a it more now and the sense of air has gotten stronger and instrument decay is improved. HiFi button FTW!

@glenclaymore, no I don't have any 627's at all, but if anyone would like to send me some I'd be more than happy to test 'em out.

I do have a pair of 637AP's though that I will be trying out a soon as I get a browndog for them. I'm guessing both the 627 and 637 will make a great selection for the buffer, and I hope they'll complement the 6172's nicely.

@chinesewiki, read my previous post again.

Seriously tho, the loss in detail mainly affects instrument texture on foreground instruments, and imaging/3-Dimensionality on background instruments. For example, on the first Track of Pink Floyd's DSotM, I can clearly hear the cymbols vibrate and hum as they sing after they are struck. In the default config the metallic sheen is still there, but it's sound is slightly smoothed over so it sounds more like a single solitary sound. Kinda like an incredibly detailed wax sculpture that was left in the sun just a tiny bit too long. The sculpture still looks quite amazing and lifelike and hasn't lost its form, but the tiny hair-level details have started to meld into one another and are losing their distinction.

Also, the last bit of image coherence is lost as well, so instruments can sound slightly fuzzy around the edges. It's the difference between having to concentrate slightly to get a clear picture of the instrument playing and having it pop out and hang effortlessly in the air before you. Instruments playing in the background will start to lose their 3-dimensional feel, and start to meld into a flat backdrop of sound. They can sometimes be lost entirely for briefs moments on more complex music, whereas w/ my opamp setup they stay in "view" longer, dissapear for less time (if at all), and will have a more coherent 3D image during their highpoints.

But again, these are minor, but palpable, differences.

 

[fzman]

alydon -- the 637s are not unity gain stable -- they may not be a good choice in the card-- use the 627s instead, if you are going to spend the money ot try either of those .

also, i have used a browndog adaptor to fit two single dips into the dual dip output socket on the stx, and it doesn;t fit quite as well as i'd like it to. it makes good contact, but there may be some ill effects from having the longer lead lengths. (listen for phaseyness, weird soundstaging-- wisoy images, and a hardness/almost stuttering sound which indicates the connection is not good, and probably suffering from stray capacitance/inductance, or too much rfi pickup). additionally, the shield will not fit over the card with the adapter in place. i have not done the a-b yet between the dual 49720 version PLUS SHIELD and the paired 49710 singles w/out shield. the singles were a bit more open and the staging was slightly better with the singles.

stock, i found the card very warm, lush and musical, but perhaps a little too much so-- snap and dynamics were suffering from all the smoothness-- it was very relaxing to listen to, but was not accurate-- minor, to be sure, but important to me......

i am now using metal can 49720s in the i/v spots, and a pair of singles-- 49710s, on the aforementioned browndog on the output. you have to bend the pins and trim them a bit, but they fit the sockets well, if you are patient-- and don't let any of the oins touch the cases of the opamps.

 

[exFictitiouZ]

Greetings,
I'm a newbie here, but have been following this thread closely from the first page
and decided to register today to post some question.

I'm building a system from my rig,
and I'm deliberating about how to get the digital signal out of my rig to the amp (I'm using a 2.1 bookshelf speaker)
Since I've read all the posts in here, I know for certain that Essence STX is a very decent choice for the bucks, especially as some of you have mentioned, its DAC section is great.
But my doubt is that how does Essence's DAC compare to that of a pricer standalone DAC like DAC Magic ? (I'm not targeting something like Benchmark DAC-1 or Stello DA-100, as they're so expensive I feel so sorry about my wallet)
Or is there any other recommendation for a DAC of around $400 you'd suggest ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bojamijams]

Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet.

I'm confused about your post. Are you looking to use this thing as the 'rig'? If so and you just want digital out, then this card is not really for you. There are cheaper alternatives since the DAC doesn't come into play at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by exFictitiouZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Greetings, I'm a newbie here, but have been following this thread closely from the first page and decided to register today to post some question. I'm building a system from my rig, and I'm deliberating about how to get the digital signal out of my rig to the amp (I'm using a 2.1 bookshelf speaker) Since I've read all the posts in here, I know for certain that Essence STX is a very decent choice for the bucks, especially as some of you have mentioned, its DAC section is great. But my doubt is that how does Essence's DAC compare to that of a pricer standalone DAC like DAC Magic ? (I'm not targeting something like Benchmark DAC-1 or Stello DA-100, as they're so expensive I feel so sorry about my wallet) Or is there any other recommendation for a DAC of around $400 you'd suggest ? Thanks in advance.