[wakka992]

  OK Startech LAN has Landed!

 
 
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-330-Feet-Ethernet-Extender-USB2G4LEXT2/dp/B00HFGQESY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
 
And BOY does this thing work!  Holy Cow!  Now I have to say I listened to a fav test track for a reference point - and I said to myself - this is awfully great, how in the heck can it get better?
 
Then in the first 30 seconds, with the Startech LAN in, my jaw dropped - I mean the uber chained F-1 is a detail champ - but now details emerged that I'd never heard - and the sweetness factor upped significantly!
 
..... ...... ......
 
PS Got to say a BIG thank you to Paul McGowen for letting the cat out of the bag...this cat for one is very happy

 

Wait so the cheaper non gigabit versions are a no go? I thought you ordered both...

 
Yeah that one hasn't arrived yet.  But our thinking is it does not do the USB to TCP/IP conversion so misses some of the benefit.  We'll see.

 
Ok, I couldn't stretch to the price tag of the 1Gbit Startech LAN, but I've ordered a Lindy 42693 Extender USB 2.0 (that is a mere Usb extender over ethernet) and a Connecticplus Kit extender USB 2.0 over TCP/IP.
 
The latter should do the Startech job (but not in 1Gbit mode) as in the description of both Amazon.de and Amazon.uk is clearly stated that is a USB to TCP/IP.
 
Let's hope they'll work. 

 

[ginetto61]

Hi !
but would an industrial usb isolator be not enough ?
i am thinking to something like  ...
 
industrial USB isolator > regen > usb dac or usb DDC (i.e. like the excellent F1)
 
and the job should be done.
Am i trivializing the all issue ?
I have bought a Shentek 11023 now on ebay.com.   There is also a dc socket for an external power supply.
i have to add than i am not on high rez or dsd.  Just old redbook and 16/48.
Regards,  gino

 

[wakka992]

  Hi !
but would an industrial usb isolator be not enough ?
i am thinking to something like  ...
 
industrial USB isolator > regen > usb dac or usb DDC (i.e. like the excellent F1)
 
and the job should be done.
Am i trivializing the all issue ?
I have bought a Shentek 11023 now on ebay.com.   There is also a dc socket for an external power supply.
i have to add than i am not on high rez or dsd.  Just old redbook and 16/48.
Regards,  gino

Hi ginetto,
 
Is this what you bought? http://www.shentek.com/products/shentek-11023-usb-to-usb-converter-5kv-isolation-protection-din-rail-wall-mount-bracket
 
If yes, I think that your Shentek 11023 is not enough for audio as it's max out at 12Mbps Full Speed USB 2.0, so no USB 2.0 HiSpeed 480Mbps required for audio playback.
 
I suggest you cancel the order

 

[ginetto61]

Hi ginetto,
Is this what you bought? http://www.shentek.com/products/shentek-11023-usb-to-usb-converter-5kv-isolation-protection-din-rail-wall-mount-bracket
If yes, I think that your Shentek 11023 is not enough for audio as it's max out at 12Mbps Full Speed USB 2.0,
so no USB 2.0 HiSpeed 480Mbps required for audio playback. 

 
Hi ! sorry even for 16/48 are the 480 Mbps really needed ? 

because the idea is to use it only up to 16/48.
 
Thanks,  gino 

 
P.S.  yes i see just now that the Intona can actually allows 480 Mbps !!!! 

 
http://intona.eu/en/products
 

The Innovation

Previous isolators where limited to Full Speed (12 MBit/s) and Low Speed (1.5 MBit/s) transmission. This new product is capable of transmitting USB Hi-Speed (480 MBit/s) while providing full galvanic isolation of both the data and the power lines.

 
really amazing ... however this i do not like very much
 

Powered by USB bus, no separate power supply

this for me would be mandatory.  So that i could use the best ps i can find.
However i guess  the Intona could be overkill for my humble set-up.

 

[Caper]

Today I made a head to head comparison between F1 and an old Pioneer DVD player.
Last time I did it my old Baby Breeze lost.
 
Now listening with the DVD player and a wav rip from that CD with F1 and Jriver using ASIO it´s another story.
DVD player plays with a little bit brighter tone but looses big time in bass and details.
The sound from the F1 has so much more body, the DVD player sounds very thin in comparison.
 
Pioneer DVD player connected to Hegel H80 Coax2.
 
Intel Nuc-->Sbooster vbus blocker-->Supra USB cable-->Aqvox psu-->Intona isolator-->Supra USB cable-->F1-->Oehlbach coax cable-->Hegel H80 coax1
 
I am a happy camper!
 

 

 

[BrainFood]

   
Pro4A will be on sales probably in mid May. so lots of gear to AB and rank the chart.

 
 
Do you know if DIYINHK's XMOS driver enables latency settings in the control panel?  If so will wait for Pro4A, as Singxer's driver doesn't have it apparently.  Had the same issue with the XMOS of my now-departed Gustard X20, so it's kinda deja vu..and a PITA.

 

[rb2013]

   
Good morning and thanks a lot again for all your valuable effort and disclosing of very interesting findings.
This one nonLAN could just be my target.  I do not need the LAN feature at all. 
The brain of the system i the PC and the files are on both NAS and external HDs.
I will wait with great interest your findings.
 
 
You are right.  A really nice man.  I like his way of presenting things.
However i wonder who was the wise guy that chose USB as a link for audio signal transmission 

it is just not possible that in order to get a decent transmission all this sort of accessories is needed.
I am not saying that they do not work.  I am saying that is insane.
If one thing is clear to me is that Ethernet would have been a much much better choice. 

Maybe they want us to struggle, to suffer, to test pain  ...

I have the mitiganting circumstance that i am dumb.
But those are engineers ... oioioioi ... 

Thanks sincerely again.
Have a nice day,  gino

Well  the test will be what it sounds like...

 

[rb2013]

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so the "endpoint" is the F-1?

Perhaps I misunderstood, - but i thought that one needed a mindsp RJ45 to I2s installed in a DAC.

You got it right. But it's just one of the ideas discussed here .. thread is running quite wild and in all directions

Yes it has and you have helped it's wildness!  But with some great stuff (NADAC) so Thanks!
 
This week has been monumental for me in terms of understanding what's happening now in cutting edge digital audio and what is just around the bend.  Moving so fast at this point.  So I will branch off two new threads this weekend.  So this epic one can stay on the XU208 focus.
 
BTW - I learned this week - that the MINdsp board you linked to - NOT LAN compatible.  It is ONLY Layer 2 Ethernet AVB - not the Layer 3 like RAVEENA and DANTE - both AES67.
The AVB requires special LAN switches - what we need is a AES67 board like it.  More on this and other breaking developments on the new thread...

 

[rb2013]

  Hi ginetto,
 
Is this what you bought? http://www.shentek.com/products/shentek-11023-usb-to-usb-converter-5kv-isolation-protection-din-rail-wall-mount-bracket
 
If yes, I think that your Shentek 11023 is not enough for audio as it's max out at 12Mbps Full Speed USB 2.0, so no USB 2.0 HiSpeed 480Mbps required for audio playback.
 
I suggest you cancel the order

Good advice!  The Intona is the only USB HiSpeed USB isolator I know about  - at least for now.  I will go into more detail on the break out thread.
 
But just to summarize - the ICRON/Startech 1GB LAN Ethernet to USB extender provides isolation at two levels - galvanic isolation at one and then at a deeper level through USB to TCP/IP conversion and reconstruction.

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi ! sorry even for 16/48 are the 480 Mbps really needed ? 

because the idea is to use it only up to 16/48.
 
Thanks,  gino 

 
P.S.  yes i see just now that the Intona can actually allows 480 Mbps !!!! 

 
http://intona.eu/en/products
 
 
really amazing ... however this i do not like very much
 
this for me would be mandatory.  So that i could use the best ps i can find.
However i guess  the Intona could be overkill for my humble set-up.

Gino, this has been around for a year - not something new

.  Now what is new is the upcoming Uptone Uber Regen which will incorporate galvanic isolation.

 

[rb2013]

  Today I made a head to head comparison between F1 and an old Pioneer DVD player.
Last time I did it my old Baby Breeze lost.
 
Now listening with the DVD player and a wav rip from that CD with F1 and Jriver using ASIO it´s another story.
DVD player plays with a little bit brighter tone but looses big time in bass and details.
The sound from the F1 has so much more body, the DVD player sounds very thin in comparison.
 
Pioneer DVD player connected to Hegel H80 Coax2.
 
Intel Nuc-->Sbooster vbus blocker-->Supra USB cable-->Aqvox psu-->Intona isolator-->Supra USB cable-->F1-->Oehlbach coax cable-->Hegel H80 coax1
 
I am a happy camper!
 

 

Victory!  Your mission is accomplished!

 

[rb2013]

  Do you know if DIYINHK's XMOS driver enables latency settings in the control panel?  If so will wait for Pro4A, as Singxer's driver doesn't have it apparently.  Had the same issue with the XMOS of my now-departed Gustard X20, so it's kinda deja vu..and a PITA.
 

 
 
Only the full XMOS driver version allows that - see Chodi for a version - although it's an older one.
 
 
Foobar 2000 and other players allow buffer setting to set.
 
I'd recommend JPlay 6.2 it has a latency setting.
 
BTW none of the XMOS DDC's I've seen have the full driver package - and if they did they would be superseded quickly as the drivers seem to be updated every few months.

 

[ginetto61]

 

Gino, this has been around for a year - not something new

.

 
Hi and thanks a lot !  i think i said i am slow to catch up ... 

  one year ?

  then very slow 

 

Now what is new is the upcoming Uptone Uber Regen which will incorporate galvanic isolation.

 
and this confirms the importance of galvanic isolation.   Good !
I was about to try the Intona but i will wait to see this new product.
Thanks again,  gino 

 

[rb2013]

OK listening to the ICRON/Startech LAN Ethernet/USB extender last night. 
 
I repeated the albums from the night before - so I was very familiar to their sound.  Everyone was better - here is what i heard that was different with the Startech LAN:
 
More life, loudness dynamics, detail, but the best difference a analog like fluidity and ease.   Like I have never heard digital do before.  Musical, sweetness.  It just happened that the albums I heard the previous night were 30-40 yrs old Springsteen - which I have always found a bit edgie.  Screeching guitars, horns, loud vocals.  Last night like a LP was playing on a sota Turntable - but with greater detail and a ink black noise floor.
 
And something else - i'll coin a term - 'temporal dynamics' the way the artists changing of tempo is conveyed - never heard it so realistically displayed by digital.  One criticism I have had of digital from the start is a kind of flattish dynamic and sound field presentation.  Vinyl well done more holographic.  Now I have to say digital has surpassed it!
 
I tried the Baaske MI 1005 Medical galvanic isolator in the ethernet connection - this came with a ferrite bead hookup cable.  It darkened the sound to much - rounding the edges of some of the detail.  Removed it and one of the Jitterbugs.  Sweetspot!  Just perfect!

 
 
So using just one Jitterbug in an open USB port on the REX was ideal.  It does make me think a better CAT6 cable will help.
 
Cheers!

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi and thanks a lot !  i think i said i am slow to catch up ... 

  one year ?

  then very slow 

 
 
and this confirms the importance of galvanic isolation.   Good !
I was about to try the Intona but i will wait to see this new product.
Thanks again,  gino 

Well my hope is the nonLAN Startech USB extender will provide the level of improvements - or at least close.  What I did not like about the Intona was the use of el-cheapo SiTIme clocks for reclocking - and this comment from @Superdad on the Regen thread:
 

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The hard part is the galvanic iso. Chips who can do that at full usb2.0 speed are rare, new and expensive. Afaik Intona has the only commercial chip right now .. few others are rumored to come.

 
No, the Intona is not based on a commercial chip.  Rather what they have done is write their own USB MAC processing core for an FPGA, then run it in two FPGAs separated by standard Silicon Labs digital isolators.  Unfortunately, they use one very average clock for the entire device--and they have it located on the "dirty" upstream side.  There is jitter added by both FPGAs and 350ps of jitter added by the isolators.  They reclock it all in the second FPGA, but there is broad debate about if that is the best place to reclock.  In addition, none of the voltage regulators they use in the device would be considered particularly low noise (at 55uVrms and 100uVrms).
 
The Intona does sound good with a REGEN after it though.  That's how I use it.  At least for another couple of months, when we will then release our uber-REGEN with, among a bunch of other enhancements, full galvanic isolation.