[rb2013]

Posted today on  CA - the spinning begins:
 

This is correct​

Originally Posted by audio.bill
I contacted Paul McGowan at PS Audio to ask about speculation that the LANRoverwas possibly one of the existing products previously mentioned on this thread. His response is being posted here for reference with his permission.

"No, it is not an existing product though it is made by an existing company using similar technology. The LANRover is custom built for us."







LANRover is built for us, to our spec. We thought it was pointless to try and reinvent the wheel, and went to a leader in the field who has already spent millions in development.

Please note: this is NOT an off-the-shelf unit. It is built to our spec, utilizing a number of changes designed to improve audio performance.

That's all I'm going to say right now. When we approach release, we'll bring out more details and full application notes.

Capiche?

Bill Leebens

 
Now if you listen to Paul on the Youtube video - he does not say 'We think this sounds so great because we made all these changes to the stock OEM unit'.  No he says (paraphase) 'We think it sounds so good because of the galvanic isolation and TCP/IP'.
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQjJke5uM2g
 
At 2:10 He explains the issue with their own UpNP Bridge solution, that being 'stuck' with UpNP...problematic, fussy, limited compatibility...
At 2:36 Discusses their search for a better solution, USB over Ethernet , and finding this company, then how hard it is to design and the ASIC
At 3:10 He says they got the unit and he plugged it in and the SQ improved - not that they had asked for a specific design change - that made it sound better - I take it as it was the stock Icron OEM unit.
At 4:18 He speaks about the folks there asking 'Why does it sound better?' then brings up the Regen...and this 'knocks it's socks off' then the explaination - galvanic isolation and the conversion from USB packets to TCP/IP packets produces an even deeper isolation (my comment: this would be beyond what the Intona does)...no mention of any design enhancements or changes...
At 9:40 He again says 'I use it because it sounds better...'. then mentions the June Beta testing.  No mention of any PSA enhancements, design changes as the reason for the SQ improvements.

 

[mhamel]

 
Many thanks - completely agree!
 
Do you have a link for that cable.  I don't really trust these Amazon cable sellers.  Bought this one from Lowes yesterday (just in case the other's don't arrive on time), you'd think for $479 Startech could provide a quality tested CAT6 cable...geeze.
 
This was $3.98 for a CAT5e 7ft at Lowes
http://www.lowes.com/pd_737251-1571-AC3507-WH-V1_2z8vi__?productId=999930134&pl=1&Ntt=cat5e+cable

 
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/data-cables/
 
They're made to order, so any length you need.

 

[rb2013]

  I ordered through the Shenzen eBay store yesterday and received a shipping notice today.  Not that means it actually is on the way but it is a good sign at least.

Cheers!

 

[rb2013]

   
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/data-cables/
 
They're made to order, so any length you need.

Great thanks!  If this does work as PMcG says it does SQ wise - I will certainly keep it and play with cables and PS for it...in a few hours I will know.

 

[rb2013]

1. PRODUCTS
2. SUPPORT
3. COMMUNITY 
4.  

FORUMS PRODUCTS PULSE SOURCE AES-67 / RAVENNA AUDIO OVER IP

AES-67 / Ravenna Audio over IP

http://lhlabs.com/forum/topic/aes-67-ravenna-audio-over-ip/

 

Is there any consideration or possibility of including AES-67 or its subset Ravenna Audio over IP functionality in the Source?  Licensing for these protocols is free, the biggest issue is coding and integration into the product.​

J.P.​

Sorry, it’s not in the spec. We really don’t want to postpone the project any further by adding more features. I’ll put it on a rev request report for Larry, though. Maybe it’ll make it into version 2.0.​

​

 

As for what IES-67 and Ravenna are…  Audio over IP is a protocol for sending audio over an ethernet connection.  This would be similar to USB audio, but the distance could be anywhere from .5m to 100m or more, rather than the USB limit of ~4.5m.  These protocols also allow for multiple players synchronized to less than a millisecond, meaning that you could have several systems within the house playing the same thing in exact synchronization – good for parties or whatever.​

This also has the potential for being a better transport than USB for several reasons.  One reason is that there is a bit less processing overhead for AoIP compared to USB.  USB is a very processor intensive interface.​

For a reference, the Merging Technologies NADAC (Network Attached DAC) has an Ethernet connection for Ravenna,and does not have a USB port at all.​

http://nadac.merging.com/nadac​

http://nadac.merging.com/networking​

J.P.​

 

Hi Jcooke, multicast is certainly possible but that would require the Source (router in this instance) be able to handle the protocol including the receivers. What is known of multicast deployment is it’s majorly used in enterprise based environments like hotels, broadcasting businesses etc.. but is rarely available to the general public. It’s a very different protocol than the usual unicast protocol found in most routers. One more difficulty is using the protocol in a Wi-fi environment. As far as having the Geek Blue, if I am not mistaken, it can only pair on a single device at a time. The above suggested setup would require to use a router capable of multi-zone broadcast which simplifies the implementation but definitively increases the costs.​

 

 

[rb2013]

MERGING+NADAC - Network Attached Digital to Analogue Converter (note no USB or i2s inputs - doesn't get more sota then this machine)

Digital Inputs

1. Ethernet (RAVENNA/AES67) on RJ45 connector. Accepts 44.1kHz – 384kHz PCM, DXD, DSD 64, DSD128, DSD256
2. Connects from the computer using standard ASIO on Windows and CoreAudio on Mac
3. Allows cable runs up to 100m on a single Cat5e or Cat6 cable, with possible repeaters, hubs or switches
4. Asynchronous communication. The MERGING+NADAC controls the rate at which the digital audio data is sent to the DAC, not the computer or the player
5. Ultra-precise communication clocking driven by the DAC…. Precision Time Protocol is at the heart of RAVENNA, ensuring a clock resolution of one nanosecond
6. AES/EBU on 3-pin female XLR connector (44.1kHz - 192kHz PCM)
7. SPDIF Optical on Toslink connector (44.1kHz - 96kHz PCM)
8. SPDIF Coaxial on RCA Phono (44.1kHz - 96kHz PCM)

 

Universal remote control

 
Web based remote control of menu functions and volume. Any web enabled smartphone, tablet or computer can control the listening level and the source selection of any MERGING+NADAC on the network. This allows you to remotely control any MERGING+NADAC in any zones in your building with a unique remote control: your phone or tablet.

1. 

 
 
 
http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/impressions-the-merging-technology-nadac-mc-8-dsd-dac/
Quote:

To do this, Merging developed Ravenna, a TCP/IP protocol and application set for audio over Ethernet, later fully supported in the Audio Engineering Society's AES67 standard (HERE), which Merging Technologies had helped to produce. In sum, this allowed Merging's family of devices (Horus, HAPI, and NADAC, for example) to use ASIO (PC/Windows) or Core Audio (Mac) drivers to communicate and network with one another reliably, over much longer distances and in more complex topologies. This would have to be something other than a consumer-oriented "one-to-one-with-a-short-cable" basis, obviously. Since Ravenna is fully compatible with the AES67 standard, all Merging Technologies Ravenna devices will interoperate with those of other manufacturers using AES67. This is a key point for professional settings, since large and complex implementations are not cheap, and are not easily replaced or upgraded.

 When the NADAC is connected to a standard computer based digital audio source and a stereo DSD stream is being received, just over 1% of the network's capacity is being used, so it is hardly being stressed at all.

Using a utility that is installed on the computer, NADAC controls the rate at which the digital audio data is sent.  Rather than being sent as a continuous stream, as is the case with standard digital audio interfaces, the data is sent in packets, which contain extra data that allows NADAC to detect if there are any errors.  If an error is detected, NADAC requests that data packet is sent again.  This is possible because of the high speed at which the data is sent and also, very importantly, because the incoming data is stored in a large buffer memory. The data is then clocked out of this memory using a high precision clock built into NADAC.  This guarantees a very high level of data integrity, which is obviously essential in a professional recording system, where there may be only one chance to capture a performance. It also eliminates the cable and jitter related problems associated with conventional digital audio interfaces, something that has been a holy grail for audiophiles. 
Another advantage of using Ethernet is that is allows several NADACs to be connected to a common music server computer, each receiving a different music data stream, so as well as offering excellent performance in conventional standalone 2-channel system, NADAC is ideal for use in sophisticated networked audio systems.   In a complex system with multiple D/A converters and possibly other network devices, ensuring data integrity can be a challenge, but the RAVENNA protocol's extremely powerful data management capability ensures that this carried out very efficiently, thereby ensuring consistently excellent sound quality.
A further advantage of the Ethernet interface is that it allows long cables to be used: typically up to 100m.  Thus the music server or computer may be located remotely, so that any noise it generates does not disturb the listener and NADAC located close to the power amplifiers so that the analogue cable lengths may be minimised for the best sound quality."
 

 

[mhamel]

Here goes nothing... lol
 

 
 
https://us.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-d16-aes  - Ordered, along with a pair of BJC Cat6a cables for the LACP link from my computer<->GigE switch and another BJC Cat6a to go from the switch to the D16 AES.  The Focusrite box has dual redundant network connections, so at some point I might add a second just because I have plenty of ports but probably not necessary.
 
I also ordered a word clock cable, so I can have the D16 sync to the master clock in my DAC, and a Mogami Gold AES cable.
 
I opted to go with the 1U D16 vs the RedNet 3 since it fits in the 1U space I have available in the gear rack in here, and because it is a newer product.
 
The PC I'm using has an Intel dual port GigE server NIC, with its own onboard processing to reduce latency and CPU overhead. For the time being I plan to use the Dante virtual sound card. I also have dual GigE ports on the motherboard, so I may experiment with a 2nd dedicated connection just for audio, too.
 
Given the cost, it's got to better the USB->Wyrd->F1->SPDIF connection noticeably or it's going back... This should be interesting.
 
   -Mike

 

[rb2013]

OK Startech LAN has Landed!

 
 
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-330-Feet-Ethernet-Extender-USB2G4LEXT2/dp/B00HFGQESY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
 
And BOY does this thing work!  Holy Cow!  Now I have to say I listened to a fav test track for a reference point - and I said to myself - this is awfully great, how in the heck can it get better?
 
Then in the first 30 seconds, with the Startech LAN in, my jaw dropped - I mean the uber chained F-1 is a detail champ - but now details emerged that I'd never heard - and the sweetness factor upped significantly!
 
So I pulled the stock USB and replaced with a Forza Twin Copper USB (from the Startech LEX to PC) - another 1-2% improvement.

Then tried my modded VBUS blocker - no go - not in the USB link - but on one of the spare USB port on the Startech REX - yes!  Another 1-2%  Second stock JB on another empty USB port on the REX - another 1-2%.   And these 1-2%'s are really adding up - or should I say on to the already awesome sound of this thing.
 
With a $3.98 Lowes CAT5e cable!  Can't wait for a Blue Jean CAT6 or maybe something better...
 
Install was as easy as can be - note the Startech LAN LEX is fed by a PPA V2 PCIe USB card and 5VDC iPower.
 
Now the tough question worth $479?  That's a lot of dash - well for me yes!  Even If I have to canabalize my analog rig and sell it for cash.
 
Just extraordinary...
 
PS Got to say a BIG thank you to Paul McGowen for letting the cat out of the bag...this cat for one is very happy

 

 

[rb2013]

  Here goes nothing... lol
 

 
 
https://us.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-d16-aes  - Ordered, along with a pair of BJC Cat6a cables for the LACP link from my computer<->GigE switch and another BJC Cat6a to go from the switch to the D16 AES.  The Focusrite box has dual redundant network connections, so at some point I might add a second just because I have plenty of ports but probably not necessary.
 
I also ordered a word clock cable, so I can have the D16 sync to the master clock in my DAC, and a Mogami Gold AES cable.
 
I opted to go with the 1U D16 vs the RedNet 3 since it fits in the 1U space I have available in the gear rack in here, and because it is a newer product.
 
The PC I'm using has an Intel dual port GigE server NIC, with its own onboard processing to reduce latency and CPU overhead. For the time being I plan to use the Dante virtual sound card. I also have dual GigE ports on the motherboard, so I may experiment with a 2nd dedicated connection just for audio, too.
 
Given the cost, it's got to better the USB->Wyrd->F1->SPDIF connection noticeably or it's going back... This should be interesting.
 
   -Mike

Who'a!   That's some sweet red gear - will anxiously wait that sounding!

 

[rb2013]

I ordered the best Ethernet cable that BJ had:
 
Cat 6a Patch Cords--BJC C6AP
Bonded Pairs, Cat 6a, 500 MHz; Rated CMR for installation
Every cable individually tested, with report
 
3ft - $21 shipped

 

[jfrocke]

Is there a reason you chose the 4 port model instead of the simpler 1 port model?

 

[Muziqboy]

  OK Startech LAN has Landed!

 
 
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-330-Feet-Ethernet-Extender-USB2G4LEXT2/dp/B00HFGQESY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
 
And BOY does this thing work!  Holy Cow!  Now I have to say I listened to a fav test track for a reference point - and I said to myself - this is awfully great, how in the heck can it get better?
 
Then in the first 30 seconds, with the Startech LAN in, my jaw dropped - I mean the uber chained F-1 is a detail champ - but now details emerged that I'd never heard - and the sweetness factor upped significantly!
 
So I pulled the stock USB and replaced with a Forza Twin Copper USB (from the Startech LEX to PC) - another 1-2% improvement.

Then tried my modded VBUS blocker - no go - not in the USB link - but on one of the spare USB port on the Startech REX - yes!  Another 1-2%  Second stock JB on another empty USB port on the REX - another 1-2%.   And these 1-2%'s are really adding up - or should I say on to the already awesome sound of this thing.
 
With a $3.98 Lowes CAT5e cable!  Can't wait for a Blue Jean CAT6 or maybe something better...
 
Install was as easy as can be - note the Startech LAN LEX is fed by a PPA V2 PCIe USB card and 5VDC iPower.
 
Now the tough question worth $479?  That's a lot of dash - well for me yes!  Even If I have to canabalize my analog rig and sell it for cash.
 
Just extraordinary...
 
PS Got to say a BIG thank you to Paul McGowen for letting the cat out of the bag...this cat for one is very happy

 

 
So this configuration is geared for DACS with USB input I assume.
How about for older DACS that only have AES/EBU or Spdif inputs, will still be needing a USB to Spdif converter right?

 

[ginetto61]

  OK Startech LAN has Landed!

 
 
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-330-Feet-Ethernet-Extender-USB2G4LEXT2/dp/B00HFGQESY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
And BOY does this thing work!  Holy Cow!  Now I have to say I listened to a fav test track for a reference point - and I said to myself - this is awfully great, how in the heck can it get better?
...  Just extraordinary...
PS Got to say a BIG thank you to Paul McGowen for letting the cat out of the bag...this cat for one is very happy

 

 
Hi and thanks a lot for the very interesting advice.
I am not sure to understand how you have connected them to the pc.
Are you still using the F1 ? maybe the Regen before the sender ?
Thanks a lot again,  gino 

 

[rb2013]

  Is there a reason you chose the 4 port model instead of the simpler 1 port model?

It's the only one that is 1GB LAN version - so does the USB to TCP/IP conversion.  It's the one that look like the OEM version of the PS Audio LANRover - although I imagine they ordered some custom design enhancements.  Hard to say as it's offical release is months away.

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi and thanks a lot for the very interesting advice.
I am not sure to understand how you have connected them to the pc.
Are you still using the F1 ? maybe the Regen before the sender ?
Thanks a lot again,  gino 

No Problem here is the very long data chain:
 
PC>PPA V2 USB card>Forza Twin Copper Split USB cable>Startech LEX>CAT5e>Startech REX (with two JBs)>LH Labs 2G split USB cable (data only leg)>W4S Recovery>iPurifer2>F-1>AS Statement Silver SPDIF>APL DAC