[roger7]

 
Well my hope is the nonLAN Startech USB extender will provide the level of improvements - or at least close.  What I did not like about the Intona was the use of el-cheapo SiTIme clocks for reclocking - and this comment from @Superdad on the Regen thread:

 
And do you know what clocks Startech is using? El-cheapo or el-expensivo ones?

 

[roger7]

  Today I made a head to head comparison between F1 and an old Pioneer DVD player.
Last time I did it my old Baby Breeze lost.
 
Now listening with the DVD player and a wav rip from that CD with F1 and Jriver using ASIO it´s another story.
DVD player plays with a little bit brighter tone but looses big time in bass and details.
The sound from the F1 has so much more body, the DVD player sounds very thin in comparison.
 
Pioneer DVD player connected to Hegel H80 Coax2.
 
Intel Nuc-->Sbooster vbus blocker-->Supra USB cable-->Aqvox psu-->Intona isolator-->Supra USB cable-->F1-->Oehlbach coax cable-->Hegel H80 coax1
 
I am a happy camper!
 

 

 
Have you listened to the same chain without Intona? Like that:
Intel Nuc-->Sbooster vbus blocker-->Supra USB cable-->Aqvox psu-->F1-->Oehlbach coax cable-->Hegel H80 coax1
And differences you can describe?

 

[ginetto61]

 
Well my hope is the nonLAN Startech USB extender will provide the level of improvements - or at least close.
What I did not like about the Intona was the use of el-cheapo SiTIme clocks for reclocking - and this comment from @Superdad on the Regen thread:
 

1. [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/9/9a/100x100px-LS-9acb55ce_TinySystem.jpeg[/img]

1. Superdad
2. Member of the Trade: UpTone Audio
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1. 51 Posts. Joined 4/2015

 
No, the Intona is not based on a commercial chip.  Rather what they have done is write their own USB MAC processing core for an FPGA, then run it in two FPGAs separated by standard Silicon Labs digital isolators.  Unfortunately, they use one very average clock for the entire device--and they have it located on the "dirty" upstream side.  There is jitter added by both FPGAs and 350ps of jitter added by the isolators.  They reclock it all in the second FPGA, but there is broad debate about if that is the best place to reclock.  In addition, none of the voltage regulators they use in the device would be considered particularly low noise (at 55uVrms and 100uVrms). 
The Intona does sound good with a REGEN after it though.  That's how I use it.  
At least for another couple of months, when we will then release our uber-REGEN with, among a bunch of other enhancements, full galvanic isolation.  

 
Hi ! thanks a lot.   So these galavnic isolators add quite some jitter.  I see.
Yes a Regen with isolation sould be just the perfect solution providing both isolation and reclocking.
Is the Intona alone really so bad ?
because i guess the F1 should reclock again the signal, if i am not wrong.
regards,  gino

 

[roger7]

  Hi !
but would an industrial usb isolator be not enough ?
i am thinking to something like  ...
 
industrial USB isolator > regen > usb dac or usb DDC (i.e. like the excellent F1)
 
and the job should be done.
Am i trivializing the all issue ?
I have bought a Shentek 11023 now on ebay.com.   There is also a dc socket for an external power supply.
i have to add than i am not on high rez or dsd.  Just old redbook and 16/48.
Regards,  gino

 
I think none can tell you for sure. Only guessing.
One would have to compare Intona, Shentek and Startech in one rig.

 

[rb2013]

   
And do you know what clocks Startech is using? El-cheapo or el-expensivo ones?

I don't believe they need clocks - as they are not isolating the USB stream per se...that's the beauty of this approach.  The Intona approach seems much more complicated.  And now we can just eliminate the USB part completely - AES67Ethernet to SPDIF (i2s?)!
 
You see USB requires a two communication and there for a short cable run - latency issues with longer.  The TCP/IP conversion of the USB packets eliminates that issue.  But that is why ISO audio will not work on the ICRON/Startech LAN Ethernet to USB extender.  The TCP/IP protocol does not allow for that two way communication.  It does communicate between the sender (LEX) and the reciever (REX) for lost or erronious TCP/IP packets - those all load into a very large buffer that then feeds the TCP/IP to USB conversion.
 
Fortunately we all use Async USB 2.0 Audio - no need for that USB two way communication

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi ! thanks a lot.   So these galavnic isolators add quite some jitter.  I see.
Yes a Regen with isolation sould be just the perfect solution providing both isolation and reclocking.
Is the Intona alone really so bad ?
because i guess the F1 should reclock again the signal, if i am not wrong.
regards,  gino

No the Intona is not 'bad' as the benefits of the galvanic isolation outweigh their design approach - but there are and possibly already better solutions to GI and designs coming...
 
Most people report positive SQ improvement with the Intona.
 
But not all - from the CA PS Audio :LANRover thread:

genjamon

Newbie

Join Date​

May 2015

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Originally Posted by ginetto61
Hi ! sorry if i jump in.
May i ask:
1) which dac are you using ?
2) are you using all the three devices (i.e. REGEN, Wyred Recovery, Intona) in series or you have ended with a specific solution ?
Thanks a lot, gino






I have both Regen and Recovery still, and both make a difference. I don't use them simultaneously. I had the Intona, but sold it. I used it both in a chain with the Regen, and on its own.

I have a Lampizator Big7 DAC.

I've played with this stuff a lot over the past six months - including a whole range of USB cables - Curious, Dana, Elijah, and a range of DIY, in addition to my older Mike Galusha and dB Audio Essential cables that I was using for the past several years. This in addition to having used the AQVOX 5V power trick since 2011 or so.USB cables and the quality of the USB/digital supply is the last major link for me to be upgrading in my system. Everything else has been replaced with major upgrades in the past two years, including a lot of NOS and high end tubes, heavy investment in power cabling/conditioning, and even equipment footers. So, you could say my system is highly sensitive to even minor changes at this point.

In my experience these past six months, you can really go around in circles with these digital tweaks. They definitely make differences, but can be very context specific as to what might be a better synergy. For instance, the Curious cables are very warm and engaging, but they completely collapsed the soundstage in my system, and didn't have the bass or highs refinement of some other solutions. But the midrange is magic. They are a perfect complement to an overly analytical or incisive system, or one that has some issues with digital hash/noise going on. Very engaging sound. But not very transparent in my opinion.

Regen is really great at cleaning up the sound, but I have found over time that it seems to shift the timbre of the sound in ways that are fatiguing over time. The Recovery does not do so.

Intona was amazing at first, but over time I found it was not as resolving and definitely had a sound of its own. But it made me a believer in galvanic isolation for sure.

At this point, I'm definitely paying attention and waiting to see what kinds of new products are being developed by everyone in this quickly evolving field. I suspect within the coming months to a year there will be a range of USB products that do it all. In the meantime, I'm happy with the Recovery and refining my DIY USB cables to do the best of transparency and tonal engagement/warmth among the commercial cables I've tried. I might have it licked, but still need to make a second link, as I have yet to hear a full loom both before and after the Recovery.

Of course, then I'll also need to go back and re-try the Regen, as maybe it was theUSB cables all along that were creating the effect I have disliked with the Regen. That's what I mean by these tweaks being things you can go around in circles on. Several times I have attributed sonics to a cable or USB device when that sonic effect went away when I swapped something small in a different place in the system. It can be very confusing and somewhat infuriating at times, difficult to figure out what exactly is causing what. It's a system after all.

​

 

[ginetto61]

No the Intona is not 'bad' as the benefits of the galvanic isolation outweigh their design approach - but there are and possibly already better solutions to GI and designs coming...
Most people report positive SQ improvement with the Intona.
But not all - from the CA PS Audio :LANRover thread:

You got me

you know ... i am sure that something must be done on this blesses usb signal sourced by the pc.
Isolation and regeneration/conditioning of the signal i guess surely can make the life easier for the usb ddc/dac downstream.
But when i see cascade on even 10 elements between pc and usb dac i am a little puzzled.
I mean ... isolation and reclocking are needed ? then why not doing all this in just one unit ?
do this in two unit implies another cable in between.
the Uber Regen in this sense goes in this direction and also the other products should address both the issues.
Instead i see purifier, isolator, reclocker, regenerator, .. i do not see buffer .. strange.
Instead the lan feature ... that i am not very interested in.
Ok end of the ramblings.
Thanks a lot again for your patience,   gino

 

[rb2013]

  You got me

you know ... i am sure that something must be done on this blesse usb link. 
Isolation and regeneration/conditioning of the signal can surely make the life easier for the usb ddc or dac downstream. 
But when i see cascade on even 10 elements between pc and usb dac i am a little puzzled.
I mean ... isolation and reclocking are needed ? then why not doing that in just one unit ? 
the Uber Regen in this sense goes in this direction and also the other products should address both the issues.
Instead i see purifier, isolator, reclocker, regenerator, .. i do not see buffer .. strange. 
Instead the lan feature ... that i am not very interested in.
Ok end of the ramblings. 
Thanks a lot again for your patience,   gino

YES!  What I've been discussing this week with AES67 Layer 3 Ethernet and Thunderbolt 3 before (actually AES67 and TB3 will work fine together) - USB is a dead man walking...Audio overIP is the new way. 

 
 
UpNP is not going to replace it, it will be the solution that allows users complete transparency to what ever media player they use now - and that's not it...

 

[prot]

Ethernet-to-aes + Dante networking.
Looks like an easy solution.
https://www.audinate.com/dante-enabled/attero-tech-undaes-o

And btw, for anyone who wants a good network cable I'd definitely go with mhamel's recomendation for the BJC cable. Or anything made by Belden (like the Belden DataTuff series). Those are some serious network cables who pass all Cat specs without a sweat .. somewhat expensive but nowhere near Audioquest unicorn prices.

And if you wanna go nuts, these are your ethernet connectors .. they look the part, do the job and as a bonus are very easy to use (solderless)
http://www.telegaertner.com/en/info/highlights/mfp8/

 

[rb2013]

Ethernet-to-aes + Dante networking.
Looks like an easy solution.
https://www.audinate.com/dante-enabled/attero-tech-undaes-o

And btw, for anyone who wants a good network cable I'd definitely go with @mhamel's recomendation for the BJC cable. Or anything made by Belden (like the Belden DataTuff series). Those are some serious network cables who pass all Cat specs without a sweat .. somewhat expensive but nowhere near Audioquest unicorn prices.

And if you wanna go nuts, these are your ethernet connectors .. they look the job, do the job and as a bonus are solderless and very easy to use
http://www.telegaertner.com/en/info/highlights/mfp8/

Nice converter - Unfortunately only does 2 channel 96Khz.  Love those meaty connectors.
 
Here's the one that does 192k over two channels - SPDIF and AES.  It is expensive but the prices are dropping - when the Focusrite REDNET 3 launched in 2013 it was $1400 now $799.  Very soon they will get much cheaper - this unit has ADC's and MIC inputs.  It's designed for ProAudio studios.  Prosumer products with AES67 Dante and RAVENNA will be coming soon.
 
Sorry I posted earlier in the week, but here it is again.
 
https://us.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-3

 

 
I emailed Focusrite to launch a simple DANTE AES67 Ethernet to SPDIF/AES box for us audiophiles - asked if they could name it the 'REDNET-RB2013'
 
No reply yet...

 

[ginetto61]

  
YES!  What I've been discussing this week with AES67 Layer 3 Ethernet and Thunderbolt 3 before (actually AES67 and TB3 will work fine together) -
USB is a dead man walking...Audio overIP is the new way. 

UpNP is not going to replace it, it will be the solution that allows users complete transparency to what ever media player they use now - and that's not it...

 
So there seems to be light at the end of the usb tunnel ... good

Kind regards,  gino

 

[abartels]

Ethernet-to-aes + Dante networking.
Looks like an easy solution.
https://www.audinate.com/dante-enabled/attero-tech-undaes-o

And btw, for anyone who wants a good network cable I'd definitely go with @mhamel's recomendation for the BJC cable. Or anything made by Belden (like the Belden DataTuff series). Those are some serious network cables who pass all Cat specs without a sweat .. somewhat expensive but nowhere near Audioquest unicorn prices.

And if you wanna go nuts, these are your ethernet connectors .. they look the job, do the job and as a bonus are very easy to use (solderless)
http://www.telegaertner.com/en/info/highlights/mfp8/

 
About Telegärtner RJ45 connectors, old news 

 

 

 

 

 
Used it in DualPC mode, indeed performed better.
ViaBlue is better, used it too:
 
http://www.viablue.de/com/ep7s_cat7_ethernet_cable_solid.shtml

 

[rb2013]

   
So there seems to be light at the end of the usb tunnel ... good

Kind regards,  gino

yeah like a super nova kinda light.

 

[rb2013]

   
About Telegärtner RJ45 connectors, old news 

 

 

 

 

 
Used it in DualPC mode, indeed performed better.
ViaBlue is better, used it too:
 
http://www.viablue.de/com/ep7s_cat7_ethernet_cable_solid.shtml

Sweet!  I think I'm going to go into the audio Ethernet cable business...

 

[ccschua]

   
 
Used it in DualPC mode, indeed performed better.
ViaBlue is better, used it too:
 
http://www.viablue.de/com/ep7s_cat7_ethernet_cable_solid.shtml

 
Hi, wonder if u had compared viablue it to the bluejeans cable in dual pc mode. So far, the improvement that I had doesnt compel me to try any further on ethernet cables.