[grokit]

 
Quote:

You still have to choose..... if you don't already have a turntable or DAC, and your budget only allows for one or the other......

Well if the OP doesn't have to choose if the OP doesn't state a budget; it is a false dilemma 

 

[ortofoninc]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, of course...  Both of the tables you mentioned are great bargains for how much they do right.
 
But have you heard a Technics 1200 versus a Rega P2 or Project Expression?
 
I have, and while it wasn't an outright slaughtering by the 1200, the timing and speed accuracy of the quartz-controlled DD motor was definitely an advantage on the part of the Technics.  Plus it's never a bad thing to have an easily removable headshell to switch cartridges at the drop of a hat.
 
Definitely food for thought if you're thinking of a budget deck.  I agree that for the person who wants an attractive piece for home use, that the 1200 has too much of a pro look to it, and that might be a turn off for some audiophiles.
 
And as far as the SL-1200 being designed as a DJ table, it was actually first introduced in 1972 as a HiFi deck.  The MK2 model added an upgrade motor and pitch slider, and that was in 1979.  You might think that's exclusively a DJ design, but it was rooted in HiFi.
 
Quote:

If we are talking new, for about the same money as a Technics 1200 you could get a Project expression Mk3[size=x-small], or Rega P2, or any number of Thorens and a well matched decent cartridge.[/size]
[size=x-small]If talking second hand, the same applies.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]I never said the Technics wasn't a good deck - for its intended purpose.[/size]
[size=x-small]I just said, in my opinion, I would go for one of the others. [/size]
 
[size=x-small]Thorens, Rega and Project have been designing and making Hi-Fi  Turntables for years - their intention is to make turntables for the home Hi Fi market, with a sound to match.[/size]
[size=x-small]The Technics is a DJ turntable. Its intended market is DJ's.[/size]
[size=x-small]  [/size]

 

[grokit]

Quote:

But have you heard a Technics 1200 versus a Rega P2 or Project Expression?
 
I have, and while it wasn't an outright slaughtering by the 1200, the timing and speed accuracy of the quartz-controlled DD motor was definitely an advantage on the part of the Technics.

 
Ah, so the 1200 has a PRaT advantage over the belt-driven models, I see. (Couldn't resist, as I just learned what PRaT means)

 

 

[sk3383]

Direct Drive turntables such as the Technics SL1200 do not necessarily have more PRAT than belt drive turntables.
 
The Rega P2, Project Expression or any belt driven turntable connected to a very inexpensive speed controller would make a very noticeable improvement in this area.

 

[grokit]

Yeah I prefer belt drives myself, but for other reasons than PRaT. I just wanted to use the term PRaT in a sentence. PRaT PRaT PRaT. Okay, I think I have it out of my system now

 

[erin]

Quote:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, of course...  Both of the tables you mentioned are great bargains for how much they do right.
 
But have you heard a Technics 1200 versus a Rega P2 or Project Expression?
 
I have, and while it wasn't an outright slaughtering by the 1200, the timing and speed accuracy of the quartz-controlled DD motor was definitely an advantage on the part of the Technics.  Plus it's never a bad thing to have an easily removable headshell to switch cartridges at the drop of a hat.
 
Definitely food for thought if you're thinking of a budget deck.  I agree that for the person who wants an attractive piece for home use, that the 1200 has too much of a pro look to it, and that might be a turn off for some audiophiles.
 
And as far as the SL-1200 being designed as a DJ table, it was actually first introduced in 1972 as a HiFi deck.  The MK2 model added an upgrade motor and pitch slider, and that was in 1979.  You might think that's exclusively a DJ design, but it was rooted in HiFi.
 

 

Ok, you have put me in my place. I have heard a SL1200 a long time ago, and was not critically listening.
 
After doing much googling, it seems like the SL1200 has a strong following, and is apparently more than capable of audiophile quality sound even in stock form. I guess its popular with the DJ's because of its direct drive and solid build quality.
 
I did read on one of the Audiokarma forums that someone owned both a Rega with RB250 and a SL1200 and said that he thought the RB250 was a better arm which would retrieve more detail than the Technics arm. I actually have a TT with an RB250 and find it to be a great sounding arm and TT,
 
It certainly appears that the SL1200 would be more than adequate as a first TT. I now will endevor to find one to listen to, based on your recommendation. it will be an interesting experience. Anyway so I apologise for disputing your knowledge.
 
Though, to me, the apearance of the Technics is off putting, its the sound that matters in the end.
 
For someone willing to spend $1000 on new or used, I think a Linn Sondek would be in this price range (used) and would be hard to beat.
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Hmm, I have heard that some people like the technics 1200, but it is designed for DJ's to "scratch".
For the money a Project would sound lightyears better. IMO.

It is on my list of units to read up on and check out.  I was given a suggestion to check out this unit.  Perhaps the person didn't understand what I was asking.  I haven't had any time to reference or review any information on the decks I have on my list so I will researve my opinion until I have more information on it.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Erin, the Linn Sondek does deliver good sound. I had the pleasure of listening to one fed to a pair of ESL-57s, it sounded great. However, the reason I didn't go with a Linn is because they're fiddly. The suspended deck needs to be tweaked and tuned up every six months or so. The people who love them don't mind, bit I wanted more of a "set it and forget it" table that doesn't need regular tweaking. The Planar 3 went tkgether fast and didn't need a single adjustment as long as I owned it. The Orbe needed a bit of tweaking and turning to dial it in, but hasn't needed anything since. I probably should change the oil and belt, but that's straightforward and doesn't involve spending a few hours carefully turning screws then checking for the platter bouncing evenly. So before you buy, be sure to check the maintenance and upkeep of a table. Vinylengine has forums where you can find detailed posts on a variety of decks with detailed maintenance and setup information.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Erin, the Linn Sondek does deliver good sound. I had the pleasure of listening to one fed to a pair of ESL-57s, it sounded great. However, the reason I didn't go with a Linn is because they're fiddly. The suspended deck needs to be tweaked and tuned up every six months or so. The people who love them don't mind, bit I wanted more of a "set it and forget it" table that doesn't need regular tweaking. The Planar 3 went tkgether fast and didn't need a single adjustment as long as I owned it. The Orbe needed a bit of tweaking and turning to dial it in, but hasn't needed anything since. I probably should change the oil and belt, but that's straightforward and doesn't involve spending a few hours carefully turning screws then checking for the platter bouncing evenly. So before you buy, be sure to check the maintenance and upkeep of a table. Vinylengine has forums where you can find detailed posts on a variety of decks with detailed maintenance and setup information.

Do you have any opinion on the Technics 1200?

 

[ortofoninc]

Hey Erin,
 
I'm sorry if I came off like I was trying to put you in your place.  My goal here wasn't to discredit your opinions and your knowledge, but merely to make one consider the 1200 as being a reasonable piece of kit minus it's pro-audio aesthetic.  You are right about the RB series arms being great - in fact there is an Origin Live kit for Technics 1200 that can help those who wish to have a little of both.
 
I own a 1200 among other tables, and I definitely agree that there are other tables out there which are superior, but for a price. 
 
I'd be very curious to do a shootout of a Rega w/ RB-250 versus a 1200 with an RB-250.  If for no other reason but to try.
 
 

 
Quote:

Ok, you have put me in my place. I have heard a SL1200 a long time ago, and was not critically listening.
 
After doing much googling, it seems like the SL1200 has a strong following, and is apparently more than capable of audiophile quality sound even in stock form. I guess its popular with the DJ's because of its direct drive and solid build quality.
 
I did read on one of the Audiokarma forums that someone owned both a Rega with RB250 and a SL1200 and said that he thought the RB250 was a better arm which would retrieve more detail than the Technics arm. I actually have a TT with an RB250 and find it to be a great sounding arm and TT,
 
It certainly appears that the SL1200 would be more than adequate as a first TT. I now will endevor to find one to listen to, based on your recommendation. it will be an interesting experience. Anyway so I apologise for disputing your knowledge.
 
Though, to me, the apearance of the Technics is off putting, its the sound that matters in the end.
 
For someone willing to spend $1000 on new or used, I think a Linn Sondek would be in this price range (used) and would be hard to beat.
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

 
I own a 1200 among other tables, and I definitely agree that there are other tables out there which are superior, but for a price. 
 
I'd be very curious to do a shootout of a Rega w/ RB-250 versus a 1200 with an RB-250.  If for no other reason but to try.
 
 

 

So, in your opinion this is a gret table for the price?
Do these units have built in preamps?
 

 

[ortofoninc]

Yes, I think that a Technics 1200 is a very good value especially for those just getting into vinyl.  It's built like a tank, requires little to no maintenance, and sound quality wise it's respectable.  It's not going to perform a sonic miracle, but for that price, nothing will!
 
1200s do not have built in preamps, and truthfully you're much better off getting a modest standalone phono preamp than using an inbuilt one.

 
Quote:

So, in your opinion this is a gret table for the price?
Do these units have built in preamps?
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Yes, I would rather use an external preamp, thats why I asked.

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

It's not going to perform a sonic miracle, but for that price, nothing will!

How much are miracles going for these days?

 

[ortofoninc]

  More than I have to spend, that's for sure!!
 
Quote:

 

How much are miracles going for these days?