[redshifter]

Quote:

You have to be screwy in the head to be an audionut like us.

hmm, i'm a little pissed at this. i know it's a joke, but i don't consider myself "screwy" by any means.

depression is something most people hide, and often don't have treated for fear of seeming like a "loser" or "crazy". i don't talk about it ever since i mentioned it in passing to some "friends" years ago, "friends" who wouldn't have a drink with me after. so screw them. i've learned to keep it to myself, event though yes it is a big deal. personally if somebody finds out my "secret" and can't handle it, well too bad for everyone involved i guess.

at this point in my life the drama of all this has worn away. i treat it like like some people treat chronic back pain, or maybe parkinsons. it's something that you just have to deal with daily, usually in isolation, sometimes with drugs that make you feel like ****. it sucks, but what are you going to do? you just got to keep going, there are great moments in life ahead and you need to stick around for those.

 

[dohminator]

redshifter I meant it purely as a joke, and I'm sorry that you were offended by it.

I am sorry that you have had to deal with depression for so long. I was not trying to make it seem like I don't care about this stuff at all. Actually I do care quite a bit about it, and I'm majoring in Psychology.

I was just trying to poke a little fun into a bad situation. That is why I used the word "screwy" instead of mentally ill.

Mental illness isn't fun, and I hope that anybody on this board that suffers from it gets better. And if you are suffering in silence, please do get help. There are many good people out there that can help you.

 

[elipsis]

Anyone here tried 5-HTP?

I've been off my SRI's for a week now with the intent of weaning onto something less harsh (I think over the last two years I've really managed to gain sufficient mental stability to start transitioning into more natural, less invasive therapies) and I think it may be for me.

I'd be interested to know what experiences others have had.

 

[redshifter]

dohminator,
it's an issue that makes people uncomfortable. often they will tell me to "snap out of it", or crack jokes, so perhaps my skin is a little thin. i've just learned to keep this stuff to myself, head-fi strangely is the only place i trust people enough to mention it. no big deal, i wish you luck in your profession.

elipsis,
yes i've tried 5-htp. i've tried almost everything. with 5-htp it felt like i was getting seratonin overload (groggy, massive headaches), so i stopped taking it right away. 5-htp is a precurser to seratonin which can pass the blood/brain barrier, so it actually introduces the chemical into the brain. ssri's block the reabsorbtion of seratonin, so no seratonin is added, but less is lost. after a few weeks have passed you might give st john's wort a try. "nature made" brand worked great for me, and i found a great variance between the effectiveness of different brands like schiff, etc. you may have to try some different brands before one works for you.

sjw is fine for mild depression, but if you are having the kind that immobilizes you, you may want to reconsider stopping the ssri's.

i can only talk about my experiences. what might or might not have worked for me probably will be different for you. this is really the kind of thing that should be addressed by the pro's.

this forum is amazing. i hope everyone here who suffers from this problem finds happiness.

 

[markl]

Saint John's wort has been proven no more effective than sugar pill in recent clinical trials and has some bad side-effects. It should NEVER be taken with a prescrip anti-depressant either.

I wouldn't waste money, hope and energy on risky "natural supplements" (poison ivy is natural, but you wouldn't want to make a hand cream out of it). These products are never tested scientifically, so you have nothing but anecdotal evidence of their efficacy, and you can't guarantee what is or is not in these supplements, it is a Wild West unregulated industry.

And dohminator, if you do decide to become a psychologist I hope you develop a more empathetic attitude toward your future patients than you displayed here. You are also a member here, ya know...

Mark

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl Saint John's wort has been proven no more effective than sugar pill in recent clinical trials and has some bad side-effects. It should NEVER be taken with a prescrip anti-depressant either. I wouldn't waste money, hope and energy on risky "natural supplements" (poison ivy is natural, but you wouldn't want to make a hand cream out of it). These products are never tested scientifically, so you have nothing but anecdotal evidence of their efficacy, and you can't guarantee what is or is not in these supplements, it is a Wild West unregulated industry. And dohminator, if you do decide to become a psychologist I hope you develop a more empathetic attitude toward your future patients than you displayed here. Mark

i can only speak from my experience, and sjw worked for me before the rain started here in seattle this winter. if it was placebo, then fine, i was just glad to feel better, and i did suggest he wait a few weeks before starting it. we don't want anyone getting seratonin poisoning (which is also why i suggested he stay away from 5-htp) like i said, some brands of sjw did nothing, and others worked. and markl is 100% right, people who are having problems should go seek professional help. it is the best thing you can do for yourself and your life. my only regret was waiting and losing all that time. and i hope the guy who started this thread has better luck, i wouldn't wish depression on my worst enemy.

 

[dohminator]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl And dohminator, if you do decide to become a psychologist I hope you develop a more empathetic attitude toward your future patients than you displayed here. You are also a member here, ya know... Mark

I was poking fun at myself and everybody that frequents head-fi.

I do care about the people on this board, and I am empathetic towards you. I just wasn't very tactful in the way I presented my joke. I really hope that everybody does get better, and I know that depression is a really debilitating thing to go through.

Also, I must warn anybody that wants to stop taking SSRIs. DO NOT STOP TAKING THEM SUDDENLY. STOPPING THEM SUDDENLY CAN CAUSE SOME SEVERE PROBLEMS AND REACTIONS.

If you are having a problem with them, or you think that you want to get off of them, please talk to your doctor. they can help you to slowly get off of them, and they can monitor you afterwards to make sure things go okay.

 

[elipsis]

Quote:

Originally posted by dohminator Also, I must warn anybody that wants to stop taking SSRIs. DO NOT STOP TAKING THEM SUDDENLY. STOPPING THEM SUDDENLY CAN CAUSE SOME SEVERE PROBLEMS AND REACTIONS.

My doctor is poorly informed, and in love with his prescription pad. To be perfectly honest, after a couple of years of experimentation with different SSRIs and doses, I think I am better qualified to decide what I need at this point in my life than him.

I also didn't really go off them abruptly, I used my own methods to minimise withdrawals (though they are still pretty savage).

 

[elipsis]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl Saint John's wort has been proven no more effective than sugar pill in recent clinical trials and has some bad side-effects. It should NEVER be taken with a prescrip anti-depressant either.

Do you have any references, this time? Here's an entirely impartial one that contradicts your 'recent clinical trials':

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/...tselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

Quote:

Originally posted by markl I wouldn't waste money, hope and energy on risky "natural supplements" (poison ivy is natural, but you wouldn't want to make a hand cream out of it). These products are never tested scientifically, so you have nothing but anecdotal evidence of their efficacy, and you can't guarantee what is or is not in these supplements, it is a Wild West unregulated industry.

Never tested scientifically? Except in "recent clinical trials"?

I'm the first to admit that jumping on the 'natural therapies' bandwagon for whatever ails you is the first step in the road to poverty and disappointment, but unlike homeopathy, magnet therapy and shakti stones, St John's Wort has solid scientific evidence behind it.

 

[fredpb]

Someone did mention that you never mention mental illness to ANYONE, even most you trust.


That's a fact.

NEVER tell anyone. People don't understand, including medical professionals. I have a number of personal stories I could tell.
NEVER tell anyone at work, or an employer, no one. Never tell anyone.

I am a paranoid schizophrenic (also bipolar and depressive).

What does that bring to mind? Especially the brainwashing of the media and movies. Think I am a monster baby eater????

Look at the bright side. You probably are not.

I Have had maybe five different people in my condo in 15 years.
Three of them family members. I lead a rotten lonely life.
For many reasons. Mostly the paranoia.

I am not going to complain or rant. I will just say, really, don't tell anyone if you have any of these problems. You will lose friends if you do.

 

[markl]

There is no money for doing clinical trials (very expensive) of *most* supplements because the people that can afford to do them, and are required to do them, the major drug companies, don't sell them and can't patent them.
In the case of St. John's wort, it's been used for years in Germany as a prescription treatment for depression, where standards for testing are lower. It was all over the news a couple months ago that the first significant U.S. study of the drug found it to be ineffective in treating depression.
Quote:

Never tested scientifically? Except in "recent clinical trials"?

Again, look at the number of these herbal supplements sold for every possible ailment known to man-- there are thousands of them. The percentage of those that have been tested at all in clinical trials is close to zero.

My basic point is, I would hate for someone to go off prescription drugs which have been proven effective to unknown herbal supplements that have no scientific evidence of their efficacy and no guarantee that what is inside those little pills is even what is on the label. Although they are "natural" you have no guarantee that they are "safe".

Mark

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Quote:

Originally posted by redshifter dohminator, it's an issue that makes people uncomfortable. often they will tell me to "snap out of it", or crack jokes, so perhaps my skin is a little thin. i've just learned to keep this stuff to myself, head-fi strangely is the only place i trust people enough to mention it. no big deal, i wish you luck in your profession.

One of the hardest things for other people to understand is that you can't just 'snap out' of depression.

And then it sounds like you're nuts when you do a pathetic job of something and then tell them that you are already 'trying your best'. They'll go, like, 'what? You aren't doing anything!'

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bloggs One of the hardest things for other people to understand is that you can't just 'snap out' of depression. And then it sounds like you're nuts when you do a pathetic job of something and then tell them that you are already 'trying your best'. They'll go, like, 'what? You aren't doing anything!'

i know, joe. i always thought of it as someone saying to a person in a wheelchair, "just stand up! it's easy, see, even a child can do it!"

and sadly, i agree with fred. but don't let someone else's bias keep you from getting treatment. just do it, let the cards fall where they may, and get on with life. i've lived with it for so long now i see it more like chronic pain, you recognise when it is starting, an take steps to treat it. fred, you have my sympathy--and i'm glad you're here to add to the discussion.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl There is no money for doing clinical trials (very expensive) of *most* supplements because the people that can afford to do them, and are required to do them, the major drug companies, don't sell them and can't patent them. In the case of St. John's wort, it's been used for years in Germany as a prescription treatment for depression, where standards for testing are lower. It was all over the news a couple months ago that the first significant U.S. study of the drug found it to be ineffective in treating depression. Again, look at the number of these herbal supplements sold for every possible ailment known to man-- there are thousands of them. The percentage of those that have been tested at all in clinical trials is close to zero. My basic point is, I would hate for someone to go off prescription drugs which have been proven effective to unknown herbal supplements that have no scientific evidence of their efficacy and no guarantee that what is inside those little pills is even what is on the label. Although they are "natural" you have no guarantee that they are "safe". Mark

Agreed. Another thing to consider is that some herbal supplements have been linked to kidney/liver failure and whatnot - and a lot of the supplements imported from China contain heavy metals in fairly large quantities - those herbal remedies that might cure your headache might also give you mercury or lead poisoning!

 

[Pepsione1]

I was just wondering if you are feeling better now about prozak, its been almost a month since you started this tread. Is the drug working for you ai0tron?