[dawktah2]

I was originally sold on the WA33 but soon after that Western Electric announced they are reintroducing the 300B tube. I think I need to be still for a while.

WA33B???

 

[andyschaub]

I was originally sold on the WA33 but soon after that Western Electric announced they are reintroducing the 300B tube. I think I need to be still for a while.

WA33B???

I love the sound of 2A3's, but almost no one makes them anymore and good matched quads of NOS 2A3's are next to impossible to find; when I had got my WA5-LE, Woo did not offer the parts upgrade, so I got the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate rectifier tubes, some NOS Phillips driver tubes, and a pair of slightly used by well-matched Western Electric 300B's, and those made all the difference in the world in terms of sound quality. The WA33 uses 2A3's in a "push pull" configuration for balanced operation.

The same thing can be done with 300B's. However, I prefer 2A3's and 300B's used in a dual-parallel single-ended configuration. I don't know why but--independent of power--the tonal quality of 300B's when used in a dual-parallel configuration changes a lot, becomes richer but at the same time more neutral or linear. Although it's very expensive and designed for speakers rather than headphones, Audio Note UK makes a very nice pair of dual monoblock amps with dual-parallel 300B's, the Kassai. I wish Audio Note UK made a headphone amp. You could use something like the IZero and just connect headphones using four wires in a balanced configuration to the four speaker posts to avoid the problems with a common ground.

 

[llamaluv]

So... this happened.

Here are some impressions from my first evening's worth of listening. The unit's just started being burned-in, and I'm expecting its character to evolve somewhat (I'd love some input on if/how I should modulate my expectations on that though...).

First off, a couple non-sound-related things:

I did not properly appreciate based on anything I'd read online just how much heat this thing pushes out. I can feel the heat emanating from the tubes when I spread my palms out above it from a distance of over two feet. And when the unit's been on for more than a couple hours, it's literally too hot to grab and lift. So yea. H-O-T. Not to be underestimated.

All that heat has to come from somewhere, and according to my PS Audio P3 power regenerator, the amp draws 250 watts of power. Yes really. By way of comparison, my DAC sips just 20, my solid state amp 30, and the Studio Six was like 80 I think. This thing is beastly.

The amp most definitely does not fit under the TV there. I have no idea where it's ultimately going to go, lol.

What's not beastly is the nature of its presentation, IMO. For all its grunt, the amp has a slightly ethereal and light touch is the way I hear it. Treble has a nice sweetness, is articulate and un-shy, but not overdone. I hear lots of air, especially on the Utopia and Abyss Phi, which I'm liking alot.

But what's most striking to me so far is how the WA33 handles "microdynamics". I've never heard microdynamic nuance rendered so gorgeously (and my appreciation for this should probably be evenly split with the Metrum Pavane that's feeding it). It's like I can track the decay of individual notes all the way down. Stuff like cymbals linger for longer than I'm used to. Instruments that are purposefully recessed in the mix maintain their clarity without the need to purposefully focus your attention to notice them. Overall, a very "liquid" sound.

The amp does, however, sound importantly different with the Abyss Phi from how I heard it (the exact same unit) while auditioning it at the shop (where I used my own pair of Phis). It sounded warmer and maybe less airy, with less of a midrange tube phase-bloom (on the Phi specifically). Yea, the signal chain leading up the amp was of course different, but the change in character I hear has me feeling pretty puzzled, and kind of intrigued. But it's still burning in, so I guess I'll have to reserve judgement for now and see how it goes first...

Lessee, what else? The Utopia sounds just great in an uncomplicated way that needs no belabored exposition. And the HEKv2... I'm starting to draw the conclusion that the HEKv2 simply sounds like the HEKv2 no matter what's driving it.

On the hi/low impedance switch... On the Phi, the two settings seem equally viable. High-impedance increases midrange presence and attack. Same for the HEKv2, where the high-impedance setting makes snare drums sound just right. I didn't try high-impedance on the Utopia for more than a minute, but is presumably too much of an impedance mismatch, not sure. It made the mids more forward too, but mostly increased the volume pretty dramatically...

Lastly, a plug for the favorite thing I listened to on the WA33 last night: subHuman by Recoil c. 2007, on the Abyss.

 

[HiFiGuy528]

So... this happened.



Here are some impressions from my first evening's worth of listening. The unit's just started being burned-in, and I'm expecting its character to evolve somewhat (I'd love some input on if/how I should modulate my expectations on that though...).

First off, a couple non-sound-related things:

I did not properly appreciate based on anything I'd read online just how much heat this thing pushes out. I can feel the heat emanating from the tubes when I spread my palms out above it from a distance of over two feet. And when the unit's been on for more than a couple hours, it's literally too hot to grab and lift. So yea. H-O-T. Not to be underestimated.

All that heat has to come from somewhere, and according to my PS Audio P3 power regenerator, the amp draws 250 watts of power. Yes really. By way of comparison, my DAC sips just 20, my solid state amp 30, and the Studio Six was like 80 I think. This thing is beastly.


The amp most definitely does not fit under the TV there. I have no idea where it's ultimately going to go, lol.

What's not beastly is the quality of its presentation, IMO. For all its grunt, the amp has a slightly ethereal and light touch is the way I hear it. Treble has a nice sweetness, is articulate and un-shy, but not overdone. I hear lots of air, especially on the Utopia and Abyss Phi, which I'm liking alot.

But what's most striking to me so far is how the WA33 handles "microdynamics". I've never heard microdynamic nuance rendered so gorgeously (and my appreciation for this should probably be evenly split with the Metrum Pavane that's feeding it). It's like I can track the decay of individual notes all the way down. Stuff like cymbals linger for longer than I'm used to. Instruments that are purposefully recessed in the mix maintain their clarity without the need to purposefully focus your attention to notice them. Overall, a very "liquid" sound.

The amp does, however, sound importantly different with the Abyss Phi from how I heard it (the exact same unit) while auditioning it at the shop (where I used my own pair of Phis). It sounded warmer and maybe less airy, with less of a midrange tube phase-bloom (on the Phi specifically). Yea, the signal chain leading up the amp was of course different, but the change in character I hear has me feeling pretty puzzled, and kind of intrigued. But it's still burning in, so I guess I'll have to reserve judgement for now and see how it goes first...

Lessee, what else? The Utopia sounds just great in an uncomplicated way that needs no belabored exposition. And the HEKv2... I'm starting to draw the conclusion that the HEKv2 simply sounds like the HEKv2 no matter what's driving it.

On the hi/low impedance switch... On the Phi, the two settings seem equally viable. High-impedance increases midrange presence and attack. Same for the HEKv2, where the high-impedance setting makes snare drums sound just right. I didn't try high-impedance on the Utopia for more than a minute, but is presumably too much of an impedance mismatch, not sure. It made the mids more forward too, but mostly increased the volume pretty dramatically...

Lastly, a plug for the favorite thing I listened to on the WA33 last night: subHuman by Recoil c. 2007, on the Abyss.

Thank you for the listening impressions. Yes, the sound will improve with every use.

Also, try the HI / LO level setting and see which sounds best. The level and impedance setting will not hard your headphones.

The Superconductor upgrade cable for ABYSS PHI is a big upgrade to the sound. Give it a try when you're ready.

~ Mike
Yes, I am bad for your wallet...

 

[brbattles]

Hi,

I'm a die hard two channel guy looking to build a reference headphone listening system. The WA33 is at the top of my list based on what I have read. Has anyone on the forum had the opportunity to compare the stock WA33 to the Elite WA33 or have received feedback from those who have? Is the improvement substantial or incremental? Also, for being new to the headfi hobby, Is the prevailing view that $s are better spent upgrading the tubes on the stock model vs. purchasing the Elite model and/or upgrading headphones from say an HE1000v2 to the Susvara?

Thanks in advance,

Battles

 

[mahesvara]

The gain in sound quality you would have from upgrading tubes would probably be more dramatic than going from regular to Elite WA33. If cost is no object to you, then may as well max out the WA33 with the Elite versions and all upgrade tubes. If you are patient enough and can attend RMAF this year, you may be able to audition both the regular version and the elite version. Both appeared at RMAF last year and I would guy they would again. Do check with Woo Audio though!

 

[ufospls2]

Hi,

I'm a die hard two channel guy looking to build a reference headphone listening system. The WA33 is at the top of my list based on what I have read. Has anyone on the forum had the opportunity to compare the stock WA33 to the Elite WA33 or have received feedback from those who have? Is the improvement substantial or incremental? Also, for being new to the headfi hobby, Is the prevailing view that $s are better spent upgrading the tubes on the stock model vs. purchasing the Elite model and/or upgrading headphones from say an HE1000v2 to the Susvara?

Thanks in advance,

Battles

I know of two people who prefer the standard version to the EE, but I have heard neither so I can't personally comment. I would get the best headphones you can, and then worry about the source components

 

[bfreedma]

Hi,

I'm a die hard two channel guy looking to build a reference headphone listening system. The WA33 is at the top of my list based on what I have read. Has anyone on the forum had the opportunity to compare the stock WA33 to the Elite WA33 or have received feedback from those who have? Is the improvement substantial or incremental? Also, for being new to the headfi hobby, Is the prevailing view that $s are better spent upgrading the tubes on the stock model vs. purchasing the Elite model and/or upgrading headphones from say an HE1000v2 to the Susvara?

Thanks in advance,

Battles

With the price range you're considering, it might be worthwhile to see if you can setup an individual demo at Woo and travel to their offices (or wherever they would be able to set one up for you) for something more focused and quieter than a meet. Might even be an opportunity to try out some of the tube upgrades.

The expenditure may be worth the peace of mind knowing you made your choice based on first hand experience. That's absolutely not a knock on anyone who's posted an opinion, but, IMO. unless you can correlate what you like with a second party's opinions based on multiple headphones/amps/dacs/etc discussions, it's hard to know if your preferences are the same as theirs. Or if for you, the difference is enough to invest in the Elite version vs. a tube and headphone upgrade.

 

[brbattles]

Hi all,

Just one more question: Has anyone had the opportunity to hear the WA33 vs. Hifiman's EF1000 amp on the Susvaras? Would love to hear your impressions and/or what you have heard from others who have had an opportunity to compare them.

Thanks again,
Battles

 

[llamaluv]

I'm looking for any insight on how the EML Mesh or EML Solids might fare with the Abyss Phi plugged into the WA33. And also what's their character like in general.

I found the stock tube complement (even after 150 hours) to be too soft bass-wise with the Phi (way too soft, actually). However I liked their light touch, nuance, and treble extension.

I currently have the JJ 2A3-40's in there now along with the EML 274B Mesh rectifier, and it's really solid all the way around, and the Phis respond well to them, as do the rest of the headphones I've used. However, I think I'm missing some of the treble extension and micro-dynamic 'magic' I got from the stock tubes.

So I'd love to give the EML Mesh tubes a go based on what I've heard about them, but probably only if I could be fairly certain they'd power the Phi's well bass-wise...

 

[cradon]

The Mesh power the Phi just fine on my Eddie Current Aficionado. I would say it depends on the sound of your amp and the direction you’re looking to take it in.
I think the following quote from Audio asylum sums up the differences very well.

“Meshies are resolving across most of the frequency range: nuanced, airy, with great depth and lovely treble. I did not find them to be lacking body, but they are more distant. Not as linear in the bass (in my system). Perhaps more mid to tail of note.

Sollid plates are robust, dynamic, very linear and balanced sounding. A closer presentation; more palpable. More traditionally HiFi through the upper mids and treble. Perhaps more front of note.

The solid plates are excellent all-rounders, but the meshies have some magic for the right system and music. I suspect that an amp built specifically for the meshies would be superior to an amp built specifically for solids... for me.”

 

[llamaluv]

Yeah... I think I may need to try them both.

 

[joseph69]

Yeah... I think I may need to try them both. [/QUOTEI'm not sure, but I think I mentioned to you that Jack Wu recommended the solid plate when I asked which would match well with the WA33.

 

[llamaluv]

Thanks, it sounds like the EML 2A3-S could be the wiser move based on my concerns for preserving the Abyss bass's punch and resolution.

 

[hehaw77]

Yeah, independent of anything else, the Utopias and 009's work in very different ways, so they're very unlikely to sound the same at all; although, you *might* like both in different ways or you *might* not.

The closest I've heard dynamic headphones come to the 009's are the Fostex TH-900's, for some reason ... ?

I've never heard the BHSE or the GS-X. I've heard good things about them; but I also heard good things about the now-defunct Cavalli Liquid Gold, but when I compared one directly to the Woo WA5-LE, the Woo just sounded more like music, YMMV.

Without meaning to step on Focal's toes, I tried the Utopias and just didn't like them even with the WA5-LE. It seems that, when choosing between the Utopias and the Sennheiser HD-800S's, listeners prefer the HD-800's at least in some uncontrolled tests.

I'm very fond of the planar-magnetic Ethers, which are closer in design to the 009's (but not *that* close) plus the planar-magnetic HE-1000's.

I don't mean this in a critical way at all, but the WA33 and BHSE are vastly different amps for altogether vastly different types of headphones. I'd be curious about how the BHSE compares to the 3ES or WES with the 009's, all electrostatic stuff.

I'll be curious to see what you think of the WA33 versus GS-X, more of an apples to apples comparison if you use the same headphones (within reasonable limits). My guess is---just speculating---that the TH-900's with either the WA33 or GS-X will sound closer to the 009's using either the BHSE or another electrostatic amp than the Utopias ever will.

This is subjective I can't stand the HD 800 in all its forms it just sounds like junk to me. The utopia's sound so much more detailed and precise compared to those lumpy cans to me...