[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif To anyone waiting for a BHSE: It's worth the wait. Yes, I know it's an overused cliche and it has been said about many products, most of which were probably undeserving. How do I know? I've been listening to one for the past six months. I can't imagine someone receiving a BHSE and not liking it. Just in case there is such a rare animal existing in the world, let me preemptively congratulate you on your exceedingly refined listening tastes, you are definitely special. For the 8N rest of the people, I'm pretty sure you will be very happy with the BHSE, as I am. This same thing could probably be said of the Woo WES. Where are the WES owners? Yes, I admit I'm a BHSE owner visiting a Woo WES thread. If the BHSE is so great already, why am I here? A good question. We need someone to do a BHSE vs. WES comparison!

Heard both at RMAF with O2 Mk1. They are both very powerful with strong bass impact, the BHSE maybe has a deeper reach into the very low bass registers, the BHSE had a drier and maybe slightly recessed mids vs the WES with fuller more liquid and rich mids, but with a little more spaciousness and instrument separation in the BHSE as well, and the BHSE has a little brighter more sparkly treble.

I haven't spent much time with the BHSE and depending on the program material my opinion could change. I would be happy with either one, but I did like the WES mids just a little more than BHSE, while I liked the treble a little more on the BHSE.

 

[morphsci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif ..., the BHSE had a drier and maybe slightly recessed mids ....

No matter how poorly driven, I would never describe the mids of the O2 as recessed. [Inigo]You keep using that word, but I'm not sure it means what you think it means.[/Inigo]

 

[Duggeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...the BHSE had a drier and maybe slightly recessed mids...

Consider an exercise in comparitive sound reproduction:

The BHSE permits such a degree of superiority in treble and bass extension to the O2 that the mids no longer dominate as they can do on less powerful amplifiers.

To wit, the comparison is that other amps produce recessed treble and bass while the mids remain, relative to each amp, unchanged.


Would this be cause to explain your assertion? Because the manner in which you say what you have heard I have the strongest possible technical objections to and subjectively profoundly disagree with.



I am extremely keen to hear the O2/WES though, and look forward to the oppertunity in Chicago.

 

[El_Doug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Consider an exercise in comparitive sound reproduction: ... I am extremely keen to hear the O2/WES though, and look forward to the oppertunity in Chicago.

eloquent (pretentious?) prose aside, arent you to a certain degree describing the exact same characteristics in reverse? surely when one mentions that mids seem recessed, that is an identical analysis to relatively increased highs and bass, no?

still, my experience with the BHSE (though limited) did offer just the tiniest sense of truly recessed mids, with the slightest tinniness to the sound. though no doubt very liquid and powerful feeling throughout the spectrum, this was a noticeable flaw in that amp.

i still want one though

 

[immtbiker]

I am one who never really enjoyed the "taste" of the O2's I or II, but with the WES, they sound fantastic!

Also, last year's NYC Spring Meet, Justin brought his Blue Hawaii. Now, I don't know if it was his final production model, but besides being real easy on the eyes, it also took the O2's to a higher level that I could easily live with.

I was used to using the Omegas with my 007t and KGSS. They didn't fair so well.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif No matter how poorly driven, I would never describe the mids of the O2 as recessed. [Inigo]You keep using that word, but I'm not sure it means what you think it means.[/Inigo]

Sure. I didn't actually say O2 Mk1 have recessed mids. With O2 Mk1 vs O2 Mk2 on my old GES, I felt that the O2 Mk1 mids were not recessed, but many times I described the Mk2 mids as forward sounding in comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Consider an exercise in comparitive sound reproduction: The BHSE permits such a degree of superiority in treble and bass extension to the O2 that the mids no longer dominate as they can do on less powerful amplifiers. To wit, the comparison is that other amps produce recessed treble and bass while the mids remain, relative to each amp, unchanged. Would this be cause to explain your assertion? Because the manner in which you say what you have heard I have the strongest possible technical objections to and subjectively profoundly disagree with. I am extremely keen to hear the O2/WES though, and look forward to the oppertunity in Chicago.

Sure. The O2 Mk1 mids on WES were more a little more forward than the O2 Mk1 mids on BHSE. Happy? But that's the same as when I said the BHSE mids with O2 Mk1 were maybe slightly recessed vs the WES. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

While the BHSE bass extension seemed a little deeper, the bass detail, presence and impact of the two amps were both very good and similar with O2 Mk1. If you matched the two amp's mids levels with O2 Mk1 then the BHSE bass was a little too much in relation to the mids; although the BHSE mids and highs were just right for the O2 Mk1. Some of this could be due to different sources for the amps at RMAF (Meridian vs Cary), and some due to preferences and choice of music. I really likes me some bass, but too much is doesn't make me happy either.

If the bass levels are matched so that the BHSE bass with O2 Mk1 is not too much for me, then the WES bass was similar (except the depth), the WES mids were fuller than BHSE, while the BHSE highs were fuller than the WES. And, I haven't even bothered rolling tubes from the ones the WES had at RMAF. I'm thinking the highs could come out a little more with different 6SL7 tubes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif eloquent (pretentious?) prose aside, arent you to a certain degree describing the exact same characteristics in reverse? surely when one mentions that mids seem recessed, that is an identical analysis to relatively increased highs and bass, no? still, my experience with the BHSE (though limited) did offer just the tiniest sense of truly recessed mids, with the slightest tinniness to the sound. though no doubt very liquid and powerful feeling throughout the spectrum, this was a noticeable flaw in that amp. i still want one though

Sounds like we heard similar differences. But I wouldn't use the word tinniness, as I thought it was better described and sparkly. To be honest I pined after the BHSE after CanJam, up until I heard the final version of WES at RMAF. That was when I made up my mind, and arranged to buy that very same amp.

 

[catscratch]

Considering the level of transparency of the O2, source matching can make the mids as forward or as recessed as you like. When you're dealing with a properly-powered O2 you're hearing the source first and foremost.

 

[Anders]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif To anyone waiting for a BHSE: It's worth the wait. Yes, I know it's an overused cliche and it has been said about many products, most of which were probably undeserving. How do I know? I've been listening to one for the past six months.

Thanks, that helps and raises the expectation of a good outcome. When waiting too long it is easy, in the dark moments, to suspect that there is an exclusivity and very-hard-to-get hype about the product.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Considering the level of transparency of the O2, source matching can make the mids as forward or as recessed as you like. When you're dealing with a properly-powered O2 you're hearing the source first and foremost.

I agree. I did say, "Some of this could be due to different sources for the amps at RMAF (Meridian vs Cary), and some due to preferences and choice of music."

I'm using the Apogee mini-DAC but plan to try the PS Audio DLIII DAC one of these days when I adjust the shelves in my rack to fit the bigger DAC. The PS Audio was a little brighter than my Apogee when I was using it with the Woo GES amp previously.

 

[sillysally]

WES with 02 vs WA5 LE with HD-800.

Its my understanding that the 5LE with the HD-800 gives a better out of head sound-stage (more speaker like) than the WES and 02s. Is this right?

ss

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sillysally /img/forum/go_quote.gif WES with 02 vs WA5 LE with HD-800. Its my understanding that the 5LE with the HD-800 gives a better out of head sound-stage (more speaker like) than the WES and 02s. Is this right? ss

That's the way it is with my ZDT > HD800 vs WES > O2 Mk1

 

[sillysally]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's the way it is with my ZDT > HD800 vs WES > O2 Mk1

Thanks for the reply.

I have a WA6SE>HD800 and thinking about going with a WES or a WA5LE, however because of the soundstage I think that puts the WA5LE as the better way to go for me.

What is your thinking, is the WA5LE a substantial upgrade from the WA6SE?

ss

 

[Elephas]

First, apologies to getting a bit off-topic. I don't understand why I keep visiting this thread, I promise to stop.

Yes, the HD800 has an excellent out-of-the-head soundstage. That's one of its inherent qualities, and in this aspect it is arguably as good or better than most other headphones.

My HD800 (stock) + Zana Deux does this better than my O2mk1 or O2mk2 + BHSE. The O2's (referring to either model) doesn't have a large headstage. The sound images are relatively small, and clustered mostly "inside the head."

But the O2's have very good soundstaging (in the headphone sense). It portrays the soundstage of the recording faithfully, whether large or small. One can get a better idea of the recording process and mastering done to create the soundstage illusion. Combined with its precise imaging and high level of details (both qualities arguably as good or better than most other headphones), the O2's make the most of its smallish headstage.

True the sound images are small and they're mostly inside the head, but they are superbly rendered sound images and each is highly crisp and detailed.

It's likely that no amp will ever give the O2 a large headstage or an out-of-the-head soundstage like the HD800. But given the several other qualities where I think the O2 + BHSE > HD800 + Zana Deux, I find that I don't mind the O2's smallish headstage all that much, which is basically its only weakness (while driven by the BHSE).

I'm too busy enjoying the music with all its other qualities.