[DrBenway]

A very disturbing Slashdot post suggests that Microsoft is planning some very nasty DRM for Windows 7. The post is quite disorganized and short on details, but the poster seems to be suggesting that Win7 will essentially prevent recording of online audio streams via your soundcard. Here's the relevant part of the post:

Re media files, the days of capturing an audio program on your PC are gone if the program originated on your PC. The inputs of your sound card are severely degraded in software if the card is also playing an audio program (tested here with Grooveshark). Under XP you could select "Stereo Mix" or similar under audio recording inputs and nicely capture any program then playing. Microsoft appears to be pandering to Big Music for its own reasons unrelated to consumer satisfaction. This may be the tip of the iceberg. Something *really nasty* is lurking under the surface of Win7. Being in bed with the RIAA is bad enough, but locking your own files away from you is a device so outrageous it may kill the OS for many persons. Many users will not want to experimenting with a second sound card or computer just to record from online sources, or boot up under a Linux that supports ntfs-3g just to control their files. (You never seem to know in Windows 7 when the "Access Denied" message is going to strike.) It is certainly beginning to be crystal clear why the coming WinFS will not be a good thing for userland, and a Very Good Thing for Microsoft and its partners."

I don't know the poster, and I don't know if there is any truth to this, but it sounds ominous. I do A LOT of stream captures via TotalRecorder, and if MS attempts to disallow this, I will be on Ubuntu permanently.

Any thoughts?

 

[Taikero]

DRM of any kind is a poor idea and won't last much longer. If it becomes a large enough problem the wallets of PC buyers will tip the balance.

Already people are realizing that buying DRMed music means they have to re-buy their music every time some company decides to shut down their servers.

People don't like things like this. Once it's bought, people don't like to buy a product again.

Microsoft can do this if they enjoy long term pain to their sales and stock.

 

[[L]es]

get back with the mac

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taikero /img/forum/go_quote.gif DRM of any kind is a poor idea...

That seems to be the consensus, at long last. Could MS really be so inept as to cling to this failed idea? Oh wait, clinging to failed ideas is their specialty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taikero /img/forum/go_quote.gif If it becomes a large enough problem the wallets of PC buyers will tip the balance. Already people are realizing that buying DRMed music means they have to re-buy their music every time some company decides to shut down their servers. People don't like things like this. Once it's bought, people don't like to buy a product again. Microsoft can do this if they enjoy long term pain to their sales and stock.

MS has such gargantuan market share in both the corporate and home markets. Is it possible that they think they can just jam this down people's throats?

 

[gadgetman]

That's why you should go with a company run by an (ex?) hippie...

 

[obobskivich]

personally I hate steve jobs, but I'm really starting to be swayed to the Mac camp, as Vista was a collasal failure, and Windows 7 is looking to be more of the same old same old

the only downside of course is that I've got about US $3k into my current windows box (what can I say? I love gaming), and a Mac would kill my video gaming days (yeah I know, gaming console)

like taikero said, people don't like re-buying, for me to leave Windows, you're talking ~$4k to be at the same level (a mac tower, and a gaming console, and re-buying ALL of my games), but for me to stay with Windows and simply upgrade, thats a few hundred bucks and an afternoon

so yes, I think Microsoft knows damn well that it can shove this down people's throats

as far as companies realizing DRM is a bad idea, they could care less at this point, being able to sell the same product 2-3-4 times per customer is the greatest thing they've done since the invention of advertising

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif as far as companies realizing DRM is a bad idea, they could care less at this point, being able to sell the same product 2-3-4 times per customer is the greatest thing they've done since the invention of advertising

Why hasn't some sharp lawyer initiated the mother of all class action suits on this issue? Just watching the record companies whine and squeal would be worth the price of admission.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why hasn't some sharp lawyer initiated the mother of all class action suits on this issue? Just watching the record companies whine and squeal would be worth the price of admission.

when you've got literal billions of dollars a year to piss into a defense team which makes the dream team look like a kindergarten class, you can do more or less anything you want

most of the RIAA cases have been thrown out, and the judicial system seems to hate them because it clogs up the courts, I know for a fact that Harvard filed a "friend of the court" (know thats the wrong term, but thats the gist of what its called) brief in a number of cases, basically to piss off the RIAA after their latest "lets sue college students" campaign

my biggest question is, if you're gonna sue someone, why sue college students, most of them have nothing you can attach a value to, or take, so whats the point? (they sue these kids for hundreds of thousands or millions, most of these kids already have tens to hundreds of thousands in debt, and barely own a computer or used car, whats the gain for you? massive legal fees and what else?)

honestly its JAMOD, nobody has the cash to fight them, and people who have the money to own everything legal, just do that (why not?)

not to mention, even if you did sue them, it'd be a decade before the results would mean anything, and they'd just keep doing whatever they want to do, the only way to get a corporate entity's attention in the 21st century, short of mass terrorism, is to talk with your wallets and drop their share prices, for example CompUSA and Circuit City going belly up (two of the happiest bits of news I've ever read), consumers finally responded to their practice of raped earth mass marketing and blanket overpricing, not to mention incompetent employees and terrible customer service

people will just complain and quietly keep buying the same data again and again from the more ruthless competitors, and prefer digital content providers who offer them more rights with their purchased content (for example digital copy inclusions on DVD/BD box sets)

of course I think the whole "downloadable content" thing is a total scam, buy my CDs, DVDs, LPs, VHS tapes, and LDs (yes) used, very rarely purchasing new CDs when I positively have to have them

I think of my total music collection, I've ever purchased two or three albums for download, vs everything else coming from CDs, free legal downloads, shareware/mixtapes, and so on (its amazing how easy it is to get good music for free, legally)

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any thoughts?

Sounds like complete bunk and speculation by a hacker (cracker) who hasn't backed up any of his claims.

Microsoft isn't going to break audio recording like he says. That would be a disaster to professionals and hobbyists who are recording and producing music. It's just not going to happen. Think about it.

 

[mark2410]

now i totally agree drm is big steaming pile of poo but i cant say i really encountered it at all in vista. however my feelings about apple is that the company is just all drm. their stuff only lets you do what they have decided you want to do with it, apple display port, non removable battery, non useable bluetooth etc etc.

if windows gets worse it will drive me linux way, apple is waay worse than ms has ever been

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark2410 /img/forum/go_quote.gif now i totally agree drm is big steaming pile of poo but i cant say i really encountered it at all in vista. however my feelings about apple is that the company is just all drm. their stuff only lets you do what they have decided you want to do with it, apple display port, non removable battery, non useable bluetooth etc etc. if windows gets worse it will drive me linux way, apple is waay worse than ms has ever been

displayport is actually a general standard, Dell and nVidia support it as well, its supposed to succeed DVI-D

unless we're talking about different things?

 

[mark2410]

MacNN | Apple Mini DisplayPort DRM sparks controversy

basically if you arent outputting to hdcp compliant monitor, which next to none are just now then apple said no video at all for you. they have fixed it a bit now so it will output at least sd content

 

[iriverdude]

No one cares to mention itunes & itunes store? Hardly open ended can't export your store bought tunes to CD, without sound quality loss, or save as de-DRM'd as the music is stored on itunes incompatible music streaming system.

 

[[L]es]

wow. i must have been living under a rock..

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif No one cares to mention itunes & itunes store? Hardly open ended can't export your store bought tunes to CD, without sound quality loss, or save as de-DRM'd as the music is stored on itunes incompatible music streaming system.

It's all DRM-free now on ITMS I thought?

I think though that the Slashdot comment is FUD.