[andtobis]

@dreamthinker- you sound like the type of person that is atheist, just because of how you need reason for everything. I don't mean offense, I am just curious if that is true. The layers are just that if you listen to one of the songs from his new album, there will be multiple things going on in one song. let's say you listen to a normal rap or hip hop song on the radio. For the first part of the song, it has one beat, usually with a thumpin bass, or some catchy tune that has techno sounds. Not many different sounds happen during this phase.  By different sounds i'm talking about songs that sound different, totally different from the beat.  Then a change in the beat happens, usually in the last verse of the song.  The beat does not change dramatically, it just seems like someone tweaked one or two things from the original beat.  That basically sums up a normal hip hop song that is played on the radio.  I think you can agree with me here, unless your radio station actually plays good music.
Now Kanyes song from this album are a bit different then that.  There is a general beat, which doesn't sound like a regular beat.  It usually has great vocals, or great instrumentals, which you rarely hear on the radio.  But during this beat, there are other things going on too.  This is where great headphones play a good cause.  If you have bad heapdhones you won't be able to hear everything, but if you have good ones, then you can hear other things.  "all of the lights" is a great example.  The beat changes many times.  If you listen to that song, and you don't understand what layered means i don't think i can explain it any better.  It honestly sounds like there are multiple things going on in one second.  It is as if you could take one single sound, and you could keep taking away and you would still have a full song after you took away about 5 or 6 sounds.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

@dreamthinker- you sound like the type of person that is atheist, just because of how you need reason for everything. I don't mean offense, I am just curious if that is true. The layers are just that if you listen to one of the songs from his new album, there will be multiple things going on in one song. let's say you listen to a normal rap or hip hop song on the radio. For the first part of the song, it has one beat, usually with a thumpin bass, or some catchy tune that has techno sounds. Not many different sounds happen during this phase.  By different sounds i'm talking about songs that sound different, totally different from the beat.  Then a change in the beat happens, usually in the last verse of the song.  The beat does not change dramatically, it just seems like someone tweaked one or two things from the original beat.  That basically sums up a normal hip hop song that is played on the radio.  I think you can agree with me here, unless your radio station actually plays good music.
Now Kanyes song from this album are a bit different then that.  There is a general beat, which doesn't sound like a regular beat.  It usually has great vocals, or great instrumentals, which you rarely hear on the radio.  But during this beat, there are other things going on too.  This is where great headphones play a good cause.  If you have bad heapdhones you won't be able to hear everything, but if you have good ones, then you can hear other things.  "all of the lights" is a great example.  The beat changes many times.  If you listen to that song, and you don't understand what layered means i don't think i can explain it any better.  It honestly sounds like there are multiple things going on in one second.  It is as if you could take one single sound, and you could keep taking away and you would still have a full song after you took away about 5 or 6 sounds.

Er, no.  There's precious little going on in a Kanye song.  Very simple themes, grade-school lyrics (with an occasional naughty word!  OMG, what a rebel!) and musically... nothing much.
 
If you want to hear complex, intricate beats, try traditional African drumming.  There's no comparison.  None.  You'll hear all sorts of interesting time changes and other sneaky complications dropped in.
 
Even Bananaphone shows more musical complexity.
 
If you enjoy musical baby food (spiced with bad words!  Can you believe how daring and original that is?), go ahead.
 
But don't tell us that a Happy Meal should have a Michelin rating.

 

[andtobis]

You have to compare his music to his own category of music.  In his own category of music he is great.  You cannot compare his music to something from a different category. 

 

[TheDreamthinker]

Quote:

IMO if you believe music is a science then, frankly, you're wrong.  That being said, Kanye expresses his own personal fears and woes.  He raps (mostly) about his fame, the problems he has dealing with his fame, his media image and how it distorts what he does, and his immense ego.  He also raps about broken relationships, isolation, and materialism/excess.  It's very autobiographical in nature.  His lyrics aren't amazing but they do have meaning, offering listeners his perspective on many of the issues they already have heard about in entertainment news over the last few years.  As for his marketing/charisma, he is damn well known.  His twitter is very popular because it is so raw and unfiltered, he pulled a crazy stunt at the VMAs which had people talking for months even though he personally retreated from the public, and he released free new songs every Friday leading up to the release of this album.  He definitely has people interested in what he's doing.  He is not humble.  He is not relatable.  He is not censored.  He most definitely is not viceless.  He is so alien to the kind of (boring) musicians, or even people, we see everyday and it is interesting.  At least it is to me.

I do suppose he can write very good lyrics, if he wrote 808s & Heartbreak lyrics himself, because they were great/over average.
The VMA thing is not something special by any means....it's the normal thing a star does to get some attention.
And also a great way to get back into the paparazzi-spotlight after being disappeared for a while.
 
But he is, as u said, very extravagant.
 
 

 

[TheDreamthinker]

Quote:

@dreamthinker- you sound like the type of person that is atheist, just because of how you need reason for everything. I don't mean offense, I am just curious if that is true. The layers are just that if you listen to one of the songs from his new album, there will be multiple things going on in one song. let's say you listen to a normal rap or hip hop song on the radio. For the first part of the song, it has one beat, usually with a thumpin bass, or some catchy tune that has techno sounds. Not many different sounds happen during this phase.  By different sounds i'm talking about songs that sound different, totally different from the beat.  Then a change in the beat happens, usually in the last verse of the song.  The beat does not change dramatically, it just seems like someone tweaked one or two things from the original beat.  That basically sums up a normal hip hop song that is played on the radio.  I think you can agree with me here, unless your radio station actually plays good music.
Now Kanyes song from this album are a bit different then that.  There is a general beat, which doesn't sound like a regular beat.  It usually has great vocals, or great instrumentals, which you rarely hear on the radio.  But during this beat, there are other things going on too.  This is where great headphones play a good cause.  If you have bad heapdhones you won't be able to hear everything, but if you have good ones, then you can hear other things.  "all of the lights" is a great example.  The beat changes many times.  If you listen to that song, and you don't understand what layered means i don't think i can explain it any better.  It honestly sounds like there are multiple things going on in one second.  It is as if you could take one single sound, and you could keep taking away and you would still have a full song after you took away about 5 or 6 sounds.

 
It is natural that u thought that i'm a atheist. If i didn't know any better i would also have thought that.

But i'm not, i may sound like that (and i admit it) but i am a buddhist (hence my profile picture).
Buddhism can very easily be misinterpreted as being very atheist like. But that they way i express myself in written language.
 
My headphones aren't the best (Denon NC732), therefore it may be that i am missing some things.
But after a intensive listening session tonight, i need to say that u are right.
In Power i heard 5-6 layers, i'm sure that if u start listening to it from a HD800 you would hear more.
Don't yet have the money for a HD800.

 
For me the beats, still are not extremely special.
He uses many electronic noises and hisses.
Sometimes even instruments like violin (i hardly believe that they are real though), but imo not to an extent that i would say that it is extraordinary. If i detect more, i'll let u know.
 
But for me it is not yet real art.
 
For me Renegade - Jay-Z ft. Eminem had many and clearly definable layers.
 
 
-TheDreamthinker
 

 

[Calexico]

 

It's a great thing music appreciation is subjective and no matter how elementary, immature, unfulfilling, and utterly worthless someone else deems the music a person listens to, it still sounds just as nice to him/her.  The power (and stubbornness) of the human mind (and ears)!
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
And let's be honest here, the Happy Meal will likely have a greater hold on the future than all the restaurants in the Michelin guide combined, if Ronald McDonald's plan, which has a high chance of success as long as Google does not meddle in excess, comes to fruition.  And furthermore, which idea in practice takes more innovation:  "Let's take the most horrendous ingredients we can find and try to make them as appealing as possible to as many people as possible" or "Let's take the greatest ingredients we can find and try to make it as appealing as possible to people who are interested in what we do"
But WAIT!  Let me just drop one more popular quote in there (related to your want of complexity and better vocabulary)
"“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”
Some of the above was said in jest and I don't worship Kanye West's music, but I don't think it's fair to judge music as worthless because classic conventions of musical appreciation say it is.  
[size=medium] Quote:[/size]
​

Quote:

@dreamthinker- you sound like the type of person that is atheist, just because of how you need reason for everything. I don't mean offense, I am just curious if that is true. The layers are just that if you listen to one of the songs from his new album, there will be multiple things going on in one song. let's say you listen to a normal rap or hip hop song on the radio. For the first part of the song, it has one beat, usually with a thumpin bass, or some catchy tune that has techno sounds. Not many different sounds happen during this phase.  By different sounds i'm talking about songs that sound different, totally different from the beat.  Then a change in the beat happens, usually in the last verse of the song.  The beat does not change dramatically, it just seems like someone tweaked one or two things from the original beat.  That basically sums up a normal hip hop song that is played on the radio.  I think you can agree with me here, unless your radio station actually plays good music.
Now Kanyes song from this album are a bit different then that.  There is a general beat, which doesn't sound like a regular beat.  It usually has great vocals, or great instrumentals, which you rarely hear on the radio.  But during this beat, there are other things going on too.  This is where great headphones play a good cause.  If you have bad heapdhones you won't be able to hear everything, but if you have good ones, then you can hear other things.  "all of the lights" is a great example.  The beat changes many times.  If you listen to that song, and you don't understand what layered means i don't think i can explain it any better.  It honestly sounds like there are multiple things going on in one second.  It is as if you could take one single sound, and you could keep taking away and you would still have a full song after you took away about 5 or 6 sounds.

Er, no.  There's precious little going on in a Kanye song.  Very simple themes, grade-school lyrics (with an occasional naughty word!  OMG, what a rebel!) and musically... nothing much.
 
If you want to hear complex, intricate beats, try traditional African drumming.  There's no comparison.  None.  You'll hear all sorts of interesting time changes and other sneaky complications dropped in.
 
Even Bananaphone shows more musical complexity.
 
If you enjoy musical baby food (spiced with bad words!  Can you believe how daring and original that is?), go ahead.
 
But don't tell us that a Happy Meal should have a Michelin rating.

 

 

[SpiralStatic]

 
Quote:

Quote:

@dreamthinker- you sound like the type of person that is atheist, just because of how you need reason for everything. I don't mean offense, I am just curious if that is true. The layers are just that if you listen to one of the songs from his new album, there will be multiple things going on in one song. let's say you listen to a normal rap or hip hop song on the radio. For the first part of the song, it has one beat, usually with a thumpin bass, or some catchy tune that has techno sounds. Not many different sounds happen during this phase.  By different sounds i'm talking about songs that sound different, totally different from the beat.  Then a change in the beat happens, usually in the last verse of the song.  The beat does not change dramatically, it just seems like someone tweaked one or two things from the original beat.  That basically sums up a normal hip hop song that is played on the radio.  I think you can agree with me here, unless your radio station actually plays good music.
Now Kanyes song from this album are a bit different then that.  There is a general beat, which doesn't sound like a regular beat.  It usually has great vocals, or great instrumentals, which you rarely hear on the radio.  But during this beat, there are other things going on too.  This is where great headphones play a good cause.  If you have bad heapdhones you won't be able to hear everything, but if you have good ones, then you can hear other things.  "all of the lights" is a great example.  The beat changes many times.  If you listen to that song, and you don't understand what layered means i don't think i can explain it any better.  It honestly sounds like there are multiple things going on in one second.  It is as if you could take one single sound, and you could keep taking away and you would still have a full song after you took away about 5 or 6 sounds.

Er, no.  There's precious little going on in a Kanye song.  Very simple themes, grade-school lyrics (with an occasional naughty word!  OMG, what a rebel!) and musically... nothing much.
 
If you want to hear complex, intricate beats, try traditional African drumming.  There's no comparison.  None.  You'll hear all sorts of interesting time changes and other sneaky complications dropped in.
 
Even Bananaphone shows more musical complexity.
 
If you enjoy musical baby food (spiced with bad words!  Can you believe how daring and original that is?), go ahead.
 
But don't tell us that a Happy Meal should have a Michelin rating.

If you only listen to music for its"complexity", than I am afraid you have lost the reason for listening to music. I personally don't listen to an album and think to myself, "Wow, that's so complex!" I didn't listen to The xx's debut album and toss it aside because of its simple musical composition. 
 
Also, Kanye's music is rap, which usually sustains a single beat throughout an entire song. If you don't enjoy rap or hip hop, that's fine, but you really shouldn't come to the conclusion that complex = good and simple = bad.

 

[TheDreamthinker]

Rap can be an art form.
When mixed properly.
 
This happens very rarely though.

 

[SpiralStatic]

I think Late Registration is mixed pretty well, but that's really all I can think of.

 

[minimus]

I do not enjoy or "get" rap music.  As someone in his mid-40s, my views of rap remind me of my father's views of rock music in the 1970s and early 1980s, i.e. the Rolling Stones/Beatles/Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/et. al. had zero artistic merit next to virtually every classical composer, let alone Frank Sinatra.   
 
My older brother, who has the most experimental musical tastes in my family, gave me the new Kanye West CD for Christmas.  I have to say I am absolutely blown away by how good this album is.  I was fully expecting to hate it.  I certainly don't think any popular musician "equals God", but I do think that this album -- much to my surprise -- has real musical merit.  It is a bit of a relief to know I am not quite as closed-minded as my father was thirty years ago.

 

[Confispect]

Quote:

His new album is the only newish rap album ive actually liked lately.

1+

 

[TheDreamthinker]

Quote:

I do not enjoy or "get" rap music.  As someone in his mid-40s, my views of rap remind me of my father's views of rock music in the 1970s and early 1980s, i.e. the Rolling Stones/Beatles/Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/et. al. had zero artistic merit next to virtually every classical composer, let alone Frank Sinatra.   
 
My older brother, who has the most experimental musical tastes in my family, gave me the new Kanye West CD for Christmas.  I have to say I am absolutely blown away by how good this album is.  I was fully expecting to hate it.  I certainly don't think any popular musician "equals God", but I do think that this album -- much to my surprise -- has real musical merit.  It is a bit of a relief to know I am not quite as closed-minded as my father was thirty years ago.

That's great....
 
Can u explain why u like it?
I thought that somebody who is not even into rap, can describe his reasons for liking it more subjectively.
 
Just an idea.

 

[TheDreamthinker]

A question:
 
Do celebs get paid for mentioning a certain brand in their songs?
 
Kanye uses Louis Vuitton very, very often

 

[mobbaddict]

Quote:

A question:
 
Do celebs get paid for mentioning a certain brand in their songs?
 
Kanye uses Louis Vuitton very, very often

I don't think so, TI for instance had one of his videos banned by Louis Vuitton because he mentionned them.
Apparently Kanye worked with Louis Vuitton, but he seems very involved in fashion so he's probably an exception (like Pharrell as well).

 

[andtobis]

Quote:

A question:
 
Do celebs get paid for mentioning a certain brand in their songs?
 
Kanye uses Louis Vuitton very, very often

like mobbaddict said i highly doubt it.  some rappers say 5 brands in one song.  probably only if they have it in a music video.  Kanye west is very involved in fashion.  As of late though his outfits have become rather strange.  But hopefully the air yeezy 2 comes out soon