[SpiralStatic]

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I do not enjoy or "get" rap music.  As someone in his mid-40s, my views of rap remind me of my father's views of rock music in the 1970s and early 1980s, i.e. the Rolling Stones/Beatles/Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/et. al. had zero artistic merit next to virtually every classical composer, let alone Frank Sinatra.   
 
My older brother, who has the most experimental musical tastes in my family, gave me the new Kanye West CD for Christmas.  I have to say I am absolutely blown away by how good this album is.  I was fully expecting to hate it.  I certainly don't think any popular musician "equals God", but I do think that this album -- much to my surprise -- has real musical merit.  It is a bit of a relief to know I am not quite as closed-minded as my father was thirty years ago.

That's great....
 
Can u explain why u like it?
I thought that somebody who is not even into rap, can describe his reasons for liking it more subjectively.
 
Just an idea.

I really don't know how you can explain it. As someone who listens to mostly indie rock, I listen to less than 5% rap, which mostly consists of Kanye. I may be wrong, but he's the only rapper I can think of that incorporates cellos into his music. He even toured with a full orchestra after releasing Late Registration. Apparently, I'm not the only one, either, because the reader's poll at Pitchfork Media ended up with My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy at #2 album of the year, only behind Arcade Fire's The Suburbs.

 

[TheDreamthinker]

U mean the the instruments.
 
I agree that he uses instruments and not just pure beat.
But i think that 808s & Heartbreak is more special/unique, because he mixes Auto-Tune with Instruments.
 
Could u tell me a spot which u find really special (with or without cellos)?
Could u send me the link to the ranking?
 
Thanks
 
 

 

[sugarkang]

He's not a God. 
Reviewers get out of control just like Head-fiers get out of control reviewing cans.
 
His new album is really good though.
If you don't like hip hop or if you don't like him personally,
then of course you're just not going to like the album. 
 
It's also interesting when you put it in context of his personal life.
He had been completely written off.
His 808 album was horrible.
His behavior was becoming erratic, even aside from the Taylor incident.
 
So, for him to come out with this defied all expectations.
He became very introspective and adventurous, and it worked. 

 

[minimus]

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I do not enjoy or "get" rap music.  As someone in his mid-40s, my views of rap remind me of my father's views of rock music in the 1970s and early 1980s, i.e. the Rolling Stones/Beatles/Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/et. al. had zero artistic merit next to virtually every classical composer, let alone Frank Sinatra.   
 
My older brother, who has the most experimental musical tastes in my family, gave me the new Kanye West CD for Christmas.  I have to say I am absolutely blown away by how good this album is.  I was fully expecting to hate it.  I certainly don't think any popular musician "equals God", but I do think that this album -- much to my surprise -- has real musical merit.  It is a bit of a relief to know I am not quite as closed-minded as my father was thirty years ago.

That's great....
 
Can u explain why u like it?
I thought that somebody who is not even into rap, can describe his reasons for liking it more subjectively.
 
Just an idea.

I like both the melodic hooks and the rhythms of the songs on the album, which are pretty addictive in combination.  The lyrics are sophomoric, but have some entertainment value for that reason.  
 
That concludes my album review.

 

[TheDreamthinker]

Yes, they are addicting......as u said the combinaton does it....
 
It's still not great......it neither gives u energy nor is it melancholic/self reflecting.......
 
I don't know, i can't take it to my heart..... 

 

[sugarkang]

Well, you don't have to like it.
But to say it is not melancholic or self reflecting is just plain wrong.
"Let's have a toast for the douchebags"
He is criticizing himself, being ironic and self-reflective, turned an anti-commercial idea into a commercial one. 
The creepy Stanley Kubrick piano motif works well. 
That is a very rare feat.  
It's genre bending the way Outkast first did it with Aquemini.
 
Part of it may have to do with, and I'm just guessing here, the fact that you're not American.
Kanye is expressing a certain zeitgeist that is apropos of the times. 
Great musicians capture a moment in time and document it on record.
 
People like to make fun of Kanye as if he's some sort of idiot. 
Or because he's not an intellectual, his work should be dismissed.
But it's not like Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton went to Harvard, 
so why should Kanye be criticized on the same terms. 
 
He shouldn't. 
 
808 was garbage.  This album is Kanye's best ever.  Kanye is still a douchebag. 
 
 
 
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It's still not great......it neither gives u energy nor is it melancholic/self reflecting.......
 
I don't know, i can't take it to my heart..... 

 

[TheDreamthinker]

Oh.....this:
 
Let's have a toast for the douchebags,
Let's have a toast for the assholes,
Let's have a toast for the scumbags,
Every one of them that I know
Let's have a toast for the jerkoffs
That'll never take work off

He applies this to himself?
It thought it was simply about the normal *** me in the a*s, haters, kind of thing.
 
What is the meaning of the song, what's the story?
 
BTW, why does everybody hate 808?
In 808, he shows that he is capable of writing lyrics about love, break up's, etc.
 
 

 

[andtobis]

Quote:

Oh.....this:
 
Let's have a toast for the douchebags,
Let's have a toast for the assholes,
Let's have a toast for the scumbags,
Every one of them that I know
Let's have a toast for the jerkoffs
That'll never take work off

He applies this to himself?
It thought it was simply about the normal *** me in the a*s, haters, kind of thing.
 
What is the meaning of the song, what's the story?
 
BTW, why does everybody hate 808?
In 808, he shows that he is capable of writing lyrics about love, break up's, etc.
 
 

i think the song runaway is just about douchebags. there can be other meanings, or other ways to interpret it but that is really the simplest way to interpret it.
He kind of just applied that song to himself and said this is what it is, you can like it or runaway from it.
 
people hated 808s for many reason.  they hated it because it was autotuned, and that made it fake.  I liked the album, not as much as others but some of the songs had really nice rhythms and good incorporation of 808s and other drums.  People also hated it because it was not rap, and totally different from his other albums.  If you listen to college dropout, or late registration you will now what i mean.   This album also really sucked live because he used auto tune, and most of the time he was not able to use that when he performed. Also, there were less lyrics so his rap fans didn't like it. 

 

[Calexico]

Because 808s is largely uninteresting.  I'm sorry but plain old lyrics about love and break ups are boring because they've been around for so long.  A well written love song is good at any time but any average joe love song is worthless.  808s was important for Kanye to explore music further but it is nothing like the powerful statements Late Registration and MBDTF are.
 
Runaway - He actually sent a picture of his dick out.  Has a hard time with women.  Likes the bad ones.  He admits his faults ("blame everything on you... females, but I'm not too good at that ****...") and acknowledges that he is basically a female repellent when it comes to long term relationships.  Expressing his distress at dealing with women but also (IMO ironically) celebrating the qualities that make him who he is.
Pusha T's verse is basically the embodiment of the modern day asshole that is being praised in the song's chorus.  He cheats on his girlfriend then tells her that she's too poor to leave him so she should just suck it up.  "Young, rich, and tasteless"
http://rapgenius.com/lyrics/Kanye-west-ft-pusha-t/Runaway
^ Some of the stuff on this website is stupid but a lot of it is cool.  I'm going to now find out what Aesop Rock's lyrics mean haha.
Sparknotes: I suck at dealing with women and by various accounts have few redeeming traits, so let's faux-celebrate!

 

[TheDreamthinker]

half of Fantasy is also auto-tuned......runaway: after Pusha T's part, that almost pure auto-tune.
 
I don't understand what u mean by "less lyrics", half of fantasy is not lyrics. If u wanted u could compress runaway to half of it's length for example.
The lyrics are about love and the loss of his mother.....profound.....

 

[TheDreamthinker]

But the "*** U HATER!!!!" is even more common.
Love songs still have a meaning....
 
Perhaps i like 808, because i tend to be more philosophical and emphasize meanings of things.

 

[Calexico]

Auto-tune is a studio effect just like any other that many musicians use today.  I don't know why so many people choose to scapegoat auto-tune as the bane of all popular music.  It changes the timbre of music just like an effect pedal changes the sound of a guitar.  It's not like these musicians are actually trying to pretend like they can sing.  It's a compelling sound.  Are these same critics uninterested in the compelling way many electronic (especially dubstep artists) are slicing up vocals and making them into almost ghostly echoes?  Or how hip-hop artists sometimes heavily sample music and make it their own?  "Studio as instrument" a la The Flaming Lips (just one random example)
 
There are so many sources to find music about love and loss, but Kanye's story of isolation as a star is a very unique one.  He has handled his fame poorly in many ways and the media has made him suffer for his fame in many ways, and in this album he has put together these issues.  The traits that make him so interesting and successful are also the ones that drive away loved ones and alienate himself from the public.  It's a compelling contradiction.  His "beautiful dark twisted fantasy" isn't a fantasy at all - It's his own life!  Fame is disillusioning and, as we all know, does not necessarily make you happy.

 

[andtobis]

what i meant was there was no rapping in 808's other than a couple of tracks. it was not really a rap album, this new album was

 

[SpiralStatic]

Why do people hate on Kanye's auto-tune? He uses it as an effect, not to mask his singing voice like everybody else does. He's actually not that bad of a singer. And I believe Calexico said it the best about his lyrics. And even if you hate Kanye West and think he's an a*shole, at least he speaks his mind, unlike most people, who hide their emotions. If you want to see Kanye West as he would like you to see him, follow his Twitter. It's very entertaining. Oh, and when he has tantrums about not winning awards, he's usually right about his album/video being the best, compared to the competition.

 

[TheDreamthinker]

For me Fantasy has no deep emotions.....
He does this to become more famous...this is my definition of "mainstream" (just to clear up any misunderstandings which may have occured during this thread)
 
In 808 however there is deep emotion.....i listen to "Welcome to Heartbreak" if i'm sad.
This are he's true feelings....and emotions
 
Auto-Tune is cool, it is unique.
T-Pain's songs stay in my head, because of the Auto-Tune.
I find that auto-tune, in the case of 808, makes it really touching.
Now if Kanye rapped simply like that about loss, love, etc., it wouldn't be so touching.
This album really almost makes me cry....
It gives the album some authentic feel to it and this feel really touches me deeply.
 
This are simply my opinions......