[Currawong]

It's all very simple really: You buy a Mac for Mac OS X. Sure you can buy a PC with more of X or Y hardware, but, when it comes down to it, you have to USE the computer.  That means the OS.  Mac OS X is designed by teams who will have meetings to discuss everything down to the colour of individual pixels in the user interface (I am not joking, I assure you), to ensure the best user experience. 
 
I spend my time on my computer doing work and creating things.  My friends on their PCs spend time maintaining the disaster that is Windows.  As time goes on, those friends have come to me asking about Macs after numerous bad experiences with Windows.  Once I've set them up with a Mac and helped them through the transition, if I hear from them, it's because they want to know how to do something, whereas when they had Windows it was because they had a problem they couldn't fix.
 
I accept that there are people who are very proficient with Windows such that they can handle issues easily, or know how to simply avoid them, but overall, for most people, what I say above is true.

 

[utdeep]

Come on Mac folk! I dare you to give Windows 7 a try. Quite frankly, I think the upgraded dock is reason enough to give it look with aero peek and the jump lists. I think it's better than the one in OSX. Windows 7 is rock stable and if you add the free Microsoft security essentials, even the most basic user has little to complain about.

This is not Vista. There is more parity and user centric design in the big 3 (windows, osx, ubuntu) than there has ever been. For the 90% of users out there with Windows, life is a lot better than it used to be.

 

[Aeneas]

Currawong, you're exaggerating or your friends are stupid.
 
I say that although driver issues (one of the main major issues with Windows, historically) are still possible, they're very uncommon - having to install a driver manually is very uncommon on Windows 7 (X-Fi sound cards and printers only, for me). Macs don't have that issue to contend with, naturally.
 
Why is AppleCare so popular and why are people willing to pay for it, if Macs just work?
OSX has just as many non-hardware problems. Fewer people use them, so fewer people whinge and blame Windows.
 
Tech support issues/calls are actually lower for premium Windows notebooks or even if you compare by manufacturer (Asus, Lenovo hardware with Windows is as good as, if not better than a Mac).
 
In terms of comparing performance, raw spec isn't enough.
 
Macs can represent good value sometimes, it depends on the cycle. And their student discounts are nice.

 

[nkoulban]

I've had Windows notebooks and now a MaxBook Pro... MacBook Pro no contest for me.  A PC will give you more choice, but a Mac running OSX is sweet

 

[marcello]

A day with windows (headohones required):
 

 
I know, for average user Windows works fine, for more advanced tasks there are some hacks to do things, and it works. However it's painful. I'm satisfied with my mac more than anything. Things done right. Don't ask system what you can you do for it, system ask you what you want.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Come on Mac folk! I dare you to give Windows 7 a try. Quite frankly, I think the upgraded dock is reason enough to give it look with aero peek and the jump lists. I think it's better than the one in OSX. Windows 7 is rock stable and if you add the free Microsoft security essentials, even the most basic user has little to complain about.

This is not Vista. There is more parity and user centric design in the big 3 (windows, osx, ubuntu) than there has ever been. For the 90% of users out there with Windows, life is a lot better than it used to be.

I have.  I don't consider a new dock and a poor attempt to visually catch up with Mac OS X a reason to switch. That, and the fact that Windows still uses the registry, still requires applications to be un-installed and still can't do something as straight-forward as adding a printer without hoopla are some of the reasons I wont switch.  Add to that the extremely random and poorly thought out user interfaces of many applications, which, if free, are half the time are trying to up-sell you to paid versions.  I assume it wont do what XP did, and decide to delete instead of copy a bunch of files when I dragged them from one directory to another.
 
I actually seriously considered Windows Home Server at one stage, but when it was new, there were horror stories of people with corrupt files and lost data. At least if I own Mac OS X, hard drive failure aside, I know it's not going to randomly wipe my files, and if I upgrade, ALL my apps and settings are preserved and don't require a re-install. 

 
Quote:

Currawong, you're exaggerating or your friends are stupid.

No exaggeration.  I did have one friend using a Compaq notebook with XP who lived an almost completely hassle-free life with it for a few years, even, despite his lack of technical ability, kept it virus free.  He was the only one though.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

You mean the whole good marketing on a bad product thing?  How they retain customers with so many crazy faults and bad customer service stories, it beyond me completely.
 
People are dumb, maybe that's why.  Because there's no logical reason.

You're still missing the point. Marketing may trick a few into buying what they don't want, but the kind of loyalty Macs inspire only comes from customer satisfaction. It doesn't matter how many bad customer service stories there are on the internet, endlessly repeated by Mac bashers. What matters is bad product performance and actual bad customer experiences. And if that were happening, all those people who owned a half-dozen Windows machines before they got their first Macs would go right back home to Windows as soon as the Macs wore out, if not before. That is logical. Assuming that "People are dumb," when they don't behave as you think they should, is not. You are clearly one of the emotional Apple - haters, so I'll let you have the last word. Reason, and civilized discussion, do not appear to be options for you.
 
P

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

 
This kind of constructive comment is so helpful...
Quote:

Currawong, you're exaggerating or your friends are stupid

 

[ROBSCIX]

Suggesting that MAC's or Apple systems as a whole are free from problems and issues shows lack of experience. 
 
Any system can be good or bad depending on what you do with it and how bad users mess it up.
If you want to use a MAC or another apple system great, but don't pretend they are just perfect and free from issues.  That is bad marketing on your end also...
 

 

[lxxl]

I am running Windows 7 on my PC right now, aside from the normal basic installs (antivirius, mouse drivers, firefox, etc), I have Adobe Photoshop, foobar2000 and 1 online game. I crash often when I browse through my home network and my hard drives in windows explorer, when the folders have some type of movies, especially the ones with foreign letters (chinese symbols), and once in awhile with the apps but that's expected.
 
Still in comparing, my OSX is more stable, perhaps Windows 7 isn't fully mature yet.

 

[7H3L457H0P3]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Apple's giant iPhone . It's a shame because the iPad could have been a great product if it cost half as much was actually x86 instead of ARM based. I love PC's but I'll give Apple credit where due for inventing the GUI a decade or so ago. I love and still use dos, command prompt, and terminal from time to time, but GUI's are so much easier to use for the average person.
 
However, I do not think the prices Apple charges are justified for a nice screen and a solid chassis. I'm more interested in how a computer run's than what it runs because an OS is just a piece of software that allows hardware to interface with other software.
 
Honestly I don't believe you can argue OS X is a better OS than Windows. Both have their ups and downs. For example, windows is a rather bulky OS but it is also robust. Driver support for hardware is paramount in windows. OS X does run fast for the hardware it has but if Microsoft spent the same amount of time optimizing just 3 sets of hardware like Apple does I'm convinced Windows would win. Secondly, any speed you gain from a less bulky OS you lose in lack of hardware.
 
I'm sure many of you may notice that your unibody Macbooks don't have external fans and before you get all high and mighty on me about how Macbook's don't need fans because they are intrinsically better do realize I am not an idiot and have University level education in Engineering which includes Thermodynamics.
 
Yes Aluminum does have a higher heat capacity than plastics which is what your low end PC is made of; FYI: PC's do come in better chassis if you know where to look and spend more than $700, but that doesn't change the fact that heating is a problem which is why Apple underclocks and undervolts their components which means you get even less for what you pay for than you know.
 
I personally use PC's because they are faster, cheaper, and honestly more aesthetically pleasing to me. Sorry the fruit just doesn't do it for me. Also I'm not afraid to carry something big around for the extra power. If you want to look all dainty with your Mac go for it. PC users can do it too. I'll just chill with a carbon fiber based sony vaio z series or Alienware (business vs. gaming). Which I recommend to anyone looking for a nice laptop (See: Vaio Z series below
 
Sony Vaio Z Series  (Customized at $1949.99; (default ($1899.99) + $50 for Carbon Fiber))
Chassis: Carbon Fiber
Screen:13.1'' LED screen (1600 x 900) - N.B. The dpi on this sucker makes me drool.
CPU: Core i5 540 2.53 Ghz (Turbo boost to 3.06 Ghz)
HDD: 128 GB SSD (default; upgradeable to two 256 GB SSD in RAID 0 for +$1000; N.B. if you you want speed you can't beat this)
RAM: 4 GB DDR3 1066 (default, up to 8 GB for +$300)
ODD: CD/DVD Burner (default, up to Blu-Ray burner +$500)
GPU: NVIDIA GT 330 (default)
 
By the way the reason it is so expensive is that it is in a 13 in chassis (more power in smaller space = $$$) and it is still cheaper than a macbook of similar specs. Actually apple doesn't offer a 13 in laptop with comparable specs. If you want a powerhouse, but aren't concerned about appearance you can get an Alienware, Sager, MSI, ASUS, or Clevo for comparable price. In other words luxury PC's are still cheaper, more powerful, and look better.
 
If you want to destroy at gaming you can get an Alienware laptop with a decent dual core, dual 5870's in crossfire, 4 GB DDR3 RAM, Dual 320 GB 7200 rpm HDD running in RAID 0, and a 17 in RGB screen at 1920 x 1080p. And if you have the coin. You can add even higher end specs (quad cores etc, RAID 0 SSD's etc). All this at  $2474.00 USD. You can cut a few hundred dollars more if you use your student discount.
 
Furthermore for those of you buying Macbooks for the iPod touch. Don't kid yourself. I'm sure people here at head-fi of all people should know how poor iPod are for sound quality especially at the price. Save yourself the trouble and get a separate mp3 player. I personally like the Zune HD, Tegra + OLED screen >>> iPod.
 
Anyway, just my two cents. Hope I didn't just start a flame war. Mac's are good at what they do, but PC's are good at everything.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3
 

 

[12thgear]

Quote:

 
 
Sony Vaio Z Series  (Customized at $1949.99; (default ($1899.99) + $50 for Carbon Fiber))
Chassis: Carbon Fiber
Screen:13.1'' LED screen (1600 x 900) - N.B. The dpi on this sucker makes me drool.
CPU: Core i5 540 2.53 Ghz (Turbo boost to 3.06 Ghz)
HDD: 128 GB SSD (default; upgradeable to two 256 GB SSD in RAID 0 for +$1000; N.B. if you you want speed you can't beat this)
RAM: 4 GB DDR3 1066 (default, up to 8 GB for +$300)
ODD: CD/DVD Burner (default, up to Blu-Ray burner +$500)
GPU: NVIDIA GT 330 (default)

 
It looks like a great machine on paper. When I played with a Z in person it felt creaky, but bear in mind they didn't have any carbon fiber models on display, and that could make all the difference. It's got to still be a body on frame design though. The appeal of the Apple unibody case is how stiff and strong it feels. One other thing about the Z caught my eye: it has HDMI on one side and VGA on the other. Do you know if it can drive two monitors plus the internal LCD, all at the same time? Or even two monitors with the lid closed? If so, that would be very cool. Macs use mini DisplayPort which supports dual-link DVI. I believe the DisplayPort spec allows for driving two independent monitors off of one port, but I'm not aware of any Macs that can currently do this. 

 

[cyberspyder]

 
Quote:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Apple's giant iPhone . It's a shame because the iPad could have been a great product if it cost half as much was actually x86 instead of ARM based. I love PC's but I'll give Apple credit where due for inventing the GUI a decade or so ago. I love and still use dos, command prompt, and terminal from time to time, but GUI's are so much easier to use for the average person.
 
However, I do not think the prices Apple charges are justified for a nice screen and a solid chassis. I'm more interested in how a computer run's than what it runs because an OS is just a piece of software that allows hardware to interface with other software.
 
Honestly I don't believe you can argue OS X is a better OS than Windows. Both have their ups and downs. For example, windows is a rather bulky OS but it is also robust. Driver support for hardware is paramount in windows. OS X does run fast for the hardware it has but if Microsoft spent the same amount of time optimizing just 3 sets of hardware like Apple does I'm convinced Windows would win. Secondly, any speed you gain from a less bulky OS you lose in lack of hardware.
 
I'm sure many of you may notice that your unibody Macbooks don't have external fans and before you get all high and mighty on me about how Macbook's don't need fans because they are intrinsically better do realize I am not an idiot and have University level education in Engineering which includes Thermodynamics.
 
Yes Aluminum does have a higher heat capacity than plastics which is what your low end PC is made of; FYI: PC's do come in better chassis if you know where to look and spend more than $700, but that doesn't change the fact that heating is a problem which is why Apple underclocks and undervolts their components which means you get even less for what you pay for than you know.
 
I personally use PC's because they are faster, cheaper, and honestly more aesthetically pleasing to me. Sorry the fruit just doesn't do it for me. Also I'm not afraid to carry something big around for the extra power. If you want to look all dainty with your Mac go for it. PC users can do it too. I'll just chill with a carbon fiber based sony vaio z series or Alienware (business vs. gaming). Which I recommend to anyone looking for a nice laptop (See: Vaio Z series below
 
Sony Vaio Z Series  (Customized at $1949.99; (default ($1899.99) + $50 for Carbon Fiber))
Chassis: Carbon Fiber
Screen:13.1'' LED screen (1600 x 900) - N.B. The dpi on this sucker makes me drool.
CPU: Core i5 540 2.53 Ghz (Turbo boost to 3.06 Ghz)
HDD: 128 GB SSD (default; upgradeable to two 256 GB SSD in RAID 0 for +$1000; N.B. if you you want speed you can't beat this)
RAM: 4 GB DDR3 1066 (default, up to 8 GB for +$300)
ODD: CD/DVD Burner (default, up to Blu-Ray burner +$500)
GPU: NVIDIA GT 330 (default)
 
By the way the reason it is so expensive is that it is in a 13 in chassis (more power in smaller space = $$$) and it is still cheaper than a macbook of similar specs. Actually apple doesn't offer a 13 in laptop with comparable specs. If you want a powerhouse, but aren't concerned about appearance you can get an Alienware, Sager, MSI, ASUS, or Clevo for comparable price. In other words luxury PC's are still cheaper, more powerful, and look better.
 
If you want to destroy at gaming you can get an Alienware laptop with a decent dual core, dual 5870's in crossfire, 4 GB DDR3 RAM, Dual 320 GB 7200 rpm HDD running in RAID 0, and a 17 in RGB screen at 1920 x 1080p. And if you have the coin. You can add even higher end specs (quad cores etc, RAID 0 SSD's etc). All this at  $2474.00 USD. You can cut a few hundred dollars more if you use your student discount.
 
Furthermore for those of you buying Macbooks for the iPod touch. Don't kid yourself. I'm sure people here at head-fi of all people should know how poor iPod are for sound quality especially at the price. Save yourself the trouble and get a separate mp3 player. I personally like the Zune HD, Tegra + OLED screen >>> iPod.
 
Anyway, just my two cents. Hope I didn't just start a flame war. Mac's are good at what they do, but PC's are good at everything.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3
 

Agreed on many points. As for the ipod Touch, I considered using the education discount to get a MBP, then sell the Touch, since I hate it for a bit of money. I will not pay list price for ANY Mac.
 

 

[Hybrys]

If you guys remember what I said, I can run OSX on anything.  If that's all, I'll just get the ASUS and put OSX on it.
 
Just make sure you aren't pushing any products for silly reasons.  Being locked out of hardware is not a good reason.  Win7 having RARE driver issues is better than drivers not existing.  I've obviously covered how it's not superior in hardware.  We've also seen that most people with MBPs have to boot into Windows to get work done.  Their 'superior' support has been taken apart and found to be inferior.  (The ASUS comes with 2 years limited, 1 year accidental.  The 2 year limited is a standard for OEM laptops (IE: Not Dell/HP customized).  The MBP comes with 1 year.)  Apple maintains their base and cashflow through monopolizing Mac computers, and discourages research and development.
 
Is there anything positive for them besides the case and the OS?

 

[marcello]

I had Acer and those drivers SUCKS on ANY system!!! If you buy Apple, everything just work right of the box, that's what I like. Other thing is, HP and Lenovo has good drivers and support, maybe Dell too.
 
And yes, the other positive thing of Apple is battery life. If you want battery life AND good performance AND light weight it is the only way I see. Otherwise, buy a spare battery or two.