Why buy a Macbook?

[odigg]

I used to work in the 3D graphics/animation (a lot of sound editing was done as well) field and people made purchasing decisions based on a very simple question.  What software did they prefer to use?"  They picked the hardware and software accordingly.  Nobody much cared if it was IRIX/Solaris/Windows/OSX or whatever.  They got what they needed to get work done.
 
Some degree of hardware flexibility was important.  So people tended to prefer desktops over laptops because you could do things like change video and audio cards, and have the most flexibilty connecting external storage arrays.  These things are really important when you want real-time interactivity with huge files.
 
I suggest you make a list of software you need to use.  Then make a list of software which is popular in the industry.  Figure out what you need to know to be competitive.  Pick your hardware/OS accordingly.
 
As for the whole OSX versus Windows thing, both platforms have reached the point where the average home user can do 100% of daily tasks and not worry much about stability issues.  I think OSX is more idiot proof so I'd probably recommend it to somebody who is somewhat clueless about computers.  Apple support is also better for people who want computers to be an appliance like a TV.

 

[7H3L457H0P3]

Hey everybody,
 
I know PC vs Mac is delicate ground so I'll tread lightly. If you are going to be doing any audio/visual editing I would highly recommend a PC over a Mac. The price to performance ratio just isn't there on Mac's and most of the people I know who are using mac's just boot windows anyway because OS X's support for 3rd party programs in a lot of cases is poor or non-existent.
 
Since you are in Canada I would recommend newegg.ca. I used to use Future Shop before I moved to the U.S. but retail selection is lacking wherever you go and you can usually get a better price online.
 
If you are going for portability go with a laptop, if not then I would just stick with a desktop. I personally use a PC for 3D graphical design and rendering for my engineering classes at A&M University.
 
If you really must run OS X I recommend getting an x86 based PC and run an Intel CPU. Then you can bootcamp/partition/run a second HDD for the other OS (Windows/OS X/linux).
 
Furthermore, I don't think you need to spend $3000 CAD to get a computer. If I were you I would just get something like the 
ASUS G Series G51JX-X1 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220700) which is $1300.00 + $10 shipping for 3 day UPS and their shouldn't be any tax charged.
 
Specs: 15.6 LED screen 1920x1080 (7.26 lb)
Intel Core i7 720QM (can overclock/turboboost)
NVIDIA GTS 360m (1GB GDDR5)
500gb 7200 rpm HDD
4GB DDR3 1066 (if you must have 8 GB you can buy RAM too (e.g. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226021&cm_re=204_pin_ddr3_1066_RAM_8gb-_-20-226-021-_-Product + $313; next option preferable in this case)
 
I realize it's a gaming laptop but gaming laptops usually have nicer components for less money if you must have 8gb of RAM you should go with the ASUS G Series G73JH-X1 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220695) which is $1520.00 + $10 shipping for 3 day UPS and their shouldn't be any tax either. Get this instead of the other laptop with RAM.
 
Specs: 17.3 LED 1080p (8 lb)
Intel Core i7 720QM (can overclock/turboboost)
ATI RADEON HD 5870 (1GB GDDR5)
500gb 7200 rpm HDD
8gb DDR3 1066 RAM
 
Honestly I would go with the second laptop, but if you want you could also get a desktop on the side. Building would be your best bet and also the cheapest option. If you want advice on building a rig PM me. I'm also working on my own rig right now. So far I've purchased the case and begun modding the chassis but I'm still working on 3d rendering using Autodesk Inventor, but if anyone is interested I could post my build when I'm done or do some kind of log.
 
Also I'm not sure how tech-savy you are, but from my experience with the average PC/Mac user it's a good thing people have forums. So I thought I'd post a few pointers:
 
1) A dual-core CPU does not mean you have two CPU's if you want two CPU's get a SkullTrail motherboard.
2) Video RAM does not equal shared RAM and having a lot of video RAM means nothing if your GPU is garbage. Look for benchmarks (always go ATI or NVIDIA, avoid Intel for GPU's)
3) Higher CPU's clocks don't mean anything. A 2 GHz Quad Core will obliterate a 4 GHz P4 (regardless of threading or core utilization).
4) PC's are not uglier than Mac's. The average person will only see a PC in a store and retail PC's are usually low end. There are PC's with industrial grade paint jobs, chroming, carbon fiber, magnesium, aluminum, leather, bamboo chassis.
5) Building is always cheaper. I can get a hexa-core CPU with dual 5770's in crossfire for under $1000 (in the U.S.) I'd like to see a Mac do that.
6) PC support is not worse than Mac, my experience with companies with HP have been amazing I was traveling abroad when my power brick failed, from the time I called HP to the time I got a free replacement was under 12 hours and I wasn't in the country of purchase. I'm still trying to resolve issues with my iPod touch.
7) If you are worried about upgrading get a desktop and if you must get a laptop check for MXM if you want to upgrade the GPU.
 
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3
3rd year Petroleum Engineering student
Hardcore Gamer/PC Enthusiast
Trance Addict

 

[odigg]

One general theme in these Mac vs Windows arguments is hardware cost.
 
In professional world, the cost of the basic computing hardware is basically forgettable.  Software costs are frequently far in excess of a the cost of a computer, especially since computers are fairly inexpensive.  The costs of additional (e.g. a specialized editing card, external interfaces, etc) can also be far in excess of the cost of the basic computer.
 
$2K for a laptop or the box under your desk?  How about $5K in software, $2K for one (of many) audio interfaces, subscription fees for the software, etc?  Throw in that the laptop or box under your desk will be upgraded every ~3 years and that $2K becomes pocket change in comparison to the other costs.  If you are making the Windows vs OSX debate, you are going to ask yourself "In 3 years when I upgrade my computer, how can ensure that I don't have to lose the investments I've made in additional hardware/software?"
 
This is very important because people sometimes go through a lot of hardware/software to get to the place where they feel everything works they way they want.  They want to keep it that way (and stay productive) for as long as possible.
 
These are the types of decisions that dictate how equipment is purchased.  They need to pragmatic about everything and are not all that caught up in the same arguments in the typical MAC vs Windows fights we see.
 
I don't know if any of my comments help you with your decision, but they are some insights into how people make purchasing decisions in the professional world.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

I used to work in the 3D graphics/animation (a lot of sound editing was done as well) field and people made purchasing decisions based on a very simple question.  What software did they prefer to use?"  They picked the hardware and software accordingly.  Nobody much cared if it was IRIX/Solaris/Windows/OSX or whatever.  They got what they needed to get work done.
 
Some degree of hardware flexibility was important.  So people tended to prefer desktops over laptops because you could do things like change video and audio cards, and have the most flexibilty connecting external storage arrays.  These things are really important when you want real-time interactivity with huge files.
 
I suggest you make a list of software you need to use.  Then make a list of software which is popular in the industry.  Figure out what you need to know to be competitive.  Pick your hardware/OS accordingly.
 
As for the whole OSX versus Windows thing, both platforms have reached the point where the average home user can do 100% of daily tasks and not worry much about stability issues.  I think OSX is more idiot proof so I'd probably recommend it to somebody who is somewhat clueless about computers.  Apple support is also better for people who want computers to be an appliance like a TV.

Yeah, the point is almost that, I could use any software in OSX/Windows.  There are professional solutions made for each, and some made for both.  (IE: ProTools.)
 
That is a good point though.  Go with what I know and use already, AND integrate that into 'industry standards'.
Quote:

Hey everybody,
 
I know PC vs Mac is delicate ground so I'll tread lightly. If you are going to be doing any audio/visual editing I would highly recommend a PC over a Mac. The price to performance ratio just isn't there on Mac's and most of the people I know who are using mac's just boot windows anyway because OS X's support for 3rd party programs in a lot of cases is poor or non-existent.
 
Since you are in Canada I would recommend newegg.ca. I used to use Future Shop before I moved to the U.S. but retail selection is lacking wherever you go and you can usually get a better price online.
 
If you are going for portability go with a laptop, if not then I would just stick with a desktop. I personally use a PC for 3D graphical design and rendering for my engineering classes at A&M University.
 
If you really must run OS X I recommend getting an x86 based PC and run an Intel CPU. Then you can bootcamp/partition/run a second HDD for the other OS (Windows/OS X/linux).
 
Furthermore, I don't think you need to spend $3000 CAD to get a computer. If I were you I would just get something like the 
ASUS G Series G51JX-X1 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220700) which is $1300.00 + $10 shipping for 3 day UPS and their shouldn't be any tax charged.
 
Specs: 15.6 LED screen 1920x1080 (7.26 lb)
Intel Core i7 720QM (can overclock/turboboost)
NVIDIA GTS 360m (1GB GDDR5)
500gb 7200 rpm HDD
4GB DDR3 1066 (if you must have 8 GB you can buy RAM too (e.g. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226021&cm_re=204_pin_ddr3_1066_RAM_8gb-_-20-226-021-_-Product + $313; next option preferable in this case)
 
I realize it's a gaming laptop but gaming laptops usually have nicer components for less money if you must have 8gb of RAM you should go with the ASUS G Series G73JH-X1 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220695) which is $1520.00 + $10 shipping for 3 day UPS and their shouldn't be any tax either. Get this instead of the other laptop with RAM.
 
Specs: 17.3 LED 1080p (8 lb)
Intel Core i7 720QM (can overclock/turboboost)
ATI RADEON HD 5870 (1GB GDDR5)
500gb 7200 rpm HDD
8gb DDR3 1066 RAM
 
Honestly I would go with the second laptop, but if you want you could also get a desktop on the side. Building would be your best bet and also the cheapest option. If you want advice on building a rig PM me. I'm also working on my own rig right now. So far I've purchased the case and begun modding the chassis but I'm still working on 3d rendering using Autodesk Inventor, but if anyone is interested I could post my build when I'm done or do some kind of log.
 
Also I'm not sure how tech-savy you are, but from my experience with the average PC/Mac user it's a good thing people have forums. So I thought I'd post a few pointers:
 
1) A dual-core CPU does not mean you have two CPU's if you want two CPU's get a SkullTrail motherboard.
2) Video RAM does not equal shared RAM and having a lot of video RAM means nothing if your GPU is garbage. Look for benchmarks (always go ATI or NVIDIA, avoid Intel for GPU's)
3) Higher CPU's clocks don't mean anything. A 2 GHz Quad Core will obliterate a 4 GHz P4 (regardless of threading or core utilization).
4) PC's are not uglier than Mac's. The average person will only see a PC in a store and retail PC's are usually low end. There are PC's with industrial grade paint jobs, chroming, carbon fiber, magnesium, aluminum, leather, bamboo chassis.
5) Building is always cheaper. I can get a hexa-core CPU with dual 5770's in crossfire for under $1000 (in the U.S.) I'd like to see a Mac do that.
6) PC support is not worse than Mac, my experience with companies with HP have been amazing I was traveling abroad when my power brick failed, from the time I called HP to the time I got a free replacement was under 12 hours and I wasn't in the country of purchase. I'm still trying to resolve issues with my iPod touch.
7) If you are worried about upgrading get a desktop and if you must get a laptop check for MXM if you want to upgrade the GPU.
 
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3
3rd year Petroleum Engineering student
Hardcore Gamer/PC Enthusiast
Trance Addict

A few points on this.
 
1.  Dual/Quad core processors with multiple physical cores are nearly the same as a SkullTrail setup, except that you lose out a little bit at the FSB and in caching.
 
2.  Video RAM in laptops is often somehow shared.  This actually makes me pretty angry, in the fact that they can advertise 256mb RAM (such as an old laptop of mine) but really just have 32mb connected, and ~200 'hypercached' from the system RAM.  Same thing in my old 9800M.  512mb connected, and 1024 'hypercached'.  And no way to change it, because Gateway locked down most of the bios.
 
3.  That is, in theory, and untrue statement.  A C2Q will beat a P4 due to efficiency and it's advanced instruction set, not because it is physically faster.  A dual core 3.6 would beat a quad core 3.0 in single core applications, if they were from the same generation.  (Not factoring in i5/i7 TurboBoost.)
 
4.  Then you share the same opinion as me, BUT, perception is everything.  I do really like the design of the G-Series (which I had happened to be looking at.  I'm waiting for a 720QM/8gb/2x500/480M model), but a lot of people seem to think the Mac is superior in every way.  Looks and false perceptions are a big part of the Mac culture.
 
And I have no qualms with any of the other points.
 
I do have to say though.  Canadian and not knowing/recommending NCIX.com?  Pricematching = win.
 
Quote:

One general theme in these Mac vs Windows arguments is hardware cost.
 
In professional world, the cost of the basic computing hardware is basically forgettable.  Software costs are frequently far in excess of a the cost of a computer, especially since computers are fairly inexpensive.  The costs of additional (e.g. a specialized editing card, external interfaces, etc) can also be far in excess of the cost of the basic computer.
 
$2K for a laptop or the box under your desk?  How about $5K in software, $2K for one (of many) audio interfaces, subscription fees for the software, etc?  Throw in that the laptop or box under your desk will be upgraded every ~3 years and that $2K becomes pocket change in comparison to the other costs.  If you are making the Windows vs OSX debate, you are going to ask yourself "In 3 years when I upgrade my computer, how can ensure that I don't have to lose the investments I've made in additional hardware/software?"
 
This is very important because people sometimes go through a lot of hardware/software to get to the place where they feel everything works they way they want.  They want to keep it that way (and stay productive) for as long as possible.
 
These are the types of decisions that dictate how equipment is purchased.  They need to pragmatic about everything and are not all that caught up in the same arguments in the typical MAC vs Windows fights we see.
 
I don't know if any of my comments help you with your decision, but they are some insights into how people make purchasing decisions in the professional world.

Upgrading in the future is the rub aswell.  I don't want to dive into desktops, and get locked out of the latest chipset in a year.  I also want something viable that's going to last me a long time, no matter if I'm gaming or simply audio editing.  (lolsimply)  I do think a mobile workstation gives me the most flexibility.  One where I can replace the CPU with a hexacore when they release a more value-line set, upgrade the ram from 8gb to 16gb in a few years, and, if the holy grail shall ever be achieved, change the video card.  In theory, I could get all that from a desktop, and more... 
 
But, I lose all the mobility, and that's the whole point.  If I end up in a studio; great investment, desktop is great.  If I end up on a road crew or having to travel for theatre work, I need to then get a laptop that has a fair bit of power, but I can lug around.
 
Re: Software.  Most of the time the company will take care of that.  And, I'd be working on a company computer, if I was in a studio or something.  But for mobile work, you don't need much more than Audacity and ProTools, or even other freeware level software.  (Acidxpress, FL, etc.)

 

[7H3L457H0P3]

I personally like laptops for the specific reason that they are mobile. Although there are desktops with a fair degree of mobility available. I'm actually working on one right now. Originally I was going to design a desktop in the form factor of an all in one laptop, but I quickly realized that it would be rather bulky and unwieldy.
 
I hope to eventually set aside enough cash when I graduate to build this, but until then I've moved on too another realm of PC's. My next idea was to make a SFF (Small Form Factor) PC. I'm personally building mine out of a small lock box, but there are some cases available about the size of an enlarged shoe box that will mount full sized GPU's and CPU's with large heat sinks.
 
You could either go with a mini-itx or micro-atx motherboard for your build if you went this route or you could buy one if you preferred. I'm personally either going to go with an Intel p55 and an i5 750 (or 760 when its released).
 
Furthermore, depending on your preferences you could go for a non-threaded AMD hexa-core Thuban (micro-atx or larger only at the moment) for $202 CAD on newegg.ca (check Tiger Direct if they still offer the $50 rebate if you are interested). It's already out. Intel should hopefully release their new tech soon but the price will be more significant (but it should be threaded which is a plus)
 
The only issue would be carrying around a monitor and keyboard; there are small USB keyboards and fairly thin monitors (I've seen 0.6 inches) and even USB power monitors at 7''-12'' but you might have to sacrifice on image quality. I don't know how important that is to you. If you want a nice screen and really feel the need to spend excessive amounts of money I believe Alienware's latest M17x mounts an 17'' RGB screen at 1200p.
 
Honestly I think you would be better off spending a minimal amount now and then upgrading in the future. You can get an amazing desktop for under $1000. What I would do is get a current motherboard and a good quad core (i7 920/930 or i5 750/760). Get plenty of RAM (try to leave room for upgrades if possible). If you have 4 slots and want 4 GB don't get 4 x 1GB get 2 x 2 GB and get more later if you need it. Get the best single slot GPU you can find (to clarify: single PCIe x16 slot, it can be a dual slot card)), and later if you need more GPU power either Crossfire/SLI another one or get the latest best card.
 
And if all else fails you can buy a new motherboard 4-7 years down the road. Try to get a decent PSU too. High efficiency with extra Wattage for upgrades. And make sure your motherboard supports at least 2 PCIe x16 2.0 slots in either x16/x16 electrical or x8/x8 if you need the extra cash. Performance loss is minor (2-5% depending on the card at dual x8 electrical).
 
Assuming you are determined to go the laptop route. You could either split your funds and get a decent laptop and desktop or just go all out on the laptop. I personally recommend ASUS and MSI. About a year back one of my friends managed to find a 17'' Aluminum MSI laptop with an AMD dual core and an ATI 3850m running on an LED monitor at 1050p brand new for $800 on newegg.com; which is an amazing deal.
 
They actually offer DIY laptops if you are interested (http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/diy_notebooks/) although you pay extra you have more control over your parts. You are probably better just buying laptops for now though.
 
And assuming ATI and NVIDIA ever get their act into gear they were both working on external GPU solutions so that you could have a laptop with full fledged gaming capabilities when plugged into the external GPU or battery life and mobility on the go. Now everyone seems to be going the internal route. Switchable graphics graphics chipsets (Optimus) and IGPs on the CPU die (AMD Fusion and Intel IGP).
 
Just thinking about this makes me want to scratch/postpone my current mod and design a SFF laptop design using desktop components with an externally mounted (using tether) PCIe x16 GPU solution. Hey if no one else can do it right do it yourself.
 
I think you get the idea that it doesn't really matter whether you use OS X or PC for software since you can run alot of the same audiovisual software, but if you are gaming or doing anything terribly resource intensive PC is the only way to go. You can get much better specs for the price have more upgrade possibilities and you can boot OS X as well if you must assuming compatibility. Apple's drivers are getting better but they are still decades behind windows for mass support.
 
My last point is $3000.00 is alot of money. I'm Canadian and I know how expensive electronics are there but that's excessive. I was last in Canada in March so I have a good idea of the current prices. I was in Australia 3 weeks ago and I can safely say I'm never buying anything there regardless, but Canada isn't too bad.
 
It seems that people have the mentality that they have to have the latest and greatest which is a bad idea in the tech world unless you want to spend $10,000.00/month for the rest of your life on a quad-sli/fire, raid 0 ssd array with a hexa-core extreme i7 powering your six-monitor eyefinity display (deliberate hyperbole, although there are some exceptions). You should consider buying last gen technology if the price justifies it. You can actually get an entire rig with a decent AMD quad core and ATI 5750 for about $500 USD (slightly more in Canada). Although I prefer mid-range. New tech is always nice but you don't need to get the best. (Classic example of the Law of diminishing returns). Get the best you can find.  (e.g. Newegg offers ATI 4850's for $100 USD)
 
Anyway, enough of my monologue. I'll try to check back online from time to time.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3

 

[Iniamyen]

Advice from someone who has bought multiple computers with mixed results, and who has a work-provided computer:
 
1. Buy the same hardware & software that everyone else in your profession has. Any issues common to all of you won't become a personal burden, and you will likely have a better time troubleshooting as a result.
 
2. Don't buy the bleeding-edge as far as performance goes, always get a step down. Your computer WILL be obsolete for the "cutting edge" applications, as compared to the new top of the line setups, in 3-4 years, either way. If you are following point #1 and need to buy a mac, you may spend more than a pc, which is fine, but don't buy the top of the line mac.
 
I repeat: Your computer WILL be obsolete in 3-4 years, so don't spend a lot on it!

 

[Hybrys]

I don't get why you people say that a laptop is automatically aged when it hits 3-4 years old.  I'm playing games on a 5 year old desktop, and just sold 2 year old laptop for near retail price.
 
You guys just aren't doing it right. =D
 
(BTW: I'm not looking for bleeding edge, and a well taken care of computer never ages too much.  If my 9 year old desktop can still play modern games on low settings, I'm sure a laptop can last me 6 years, at the top end.)

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

I don't get why you people say that a laptop is automatically aged when it hits 3-4 years old.  I'm playing games on a 5 year old desktop, and just sold 2 year old laptop for near retail price.
 
You guys just aren't doing it right. =D
 
(BTW: I'm not looking for bleeding edge, and a well taken care of computer never ages too much.  If my 9 year old desktop can still play modern games on low settings, I'm sure a laptop can last me 6 years, at the top end.)

 
 
It seems a lot of people just give up and buy a new computer once the windows 'half-life' is up instead of attempting a clean reinstall.
 
Most people would also be to intimidated to open up their computer every few years and clean all the dust bunnies out as well.  It's not like it's hard, but a lot of people are scared off by just the thought of it, if they even know it needs to be done it in the first place.  Even more so for laptops.

 

[Hybrys]

Heh.  Honestly, I usually sabotage something cheap in the computer near the end of my warranty (like the fan) and try to get them to clean it out/replace the part.  It's worked 4/5 times.  One time they even damaged the laptop and couldn't get it to start again, so they gave me a copy of it's successor.  (That was a long time ago... It was an Acer AMD Sempron Mobile.  The only difference was a stepped up video card and CPU, and not even by much.  About the same retail.)
 
Then I open it up and give it a good clean every year.  And a format every 8 months.  Maintenance is key, and not that hard for ANYONE.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

 
 
Quote:

 

What can I tell you? You're welcome to your opinion, of course. My experience is that I've never felt limited by the closed system. I have, instead, had a system with lots of choices (including running Windows and its software if I wanted to) most of which work together seamlessly without the maintaining, protecting, re-booting, cleaning, calling and downloading that seemed to be part and parcel of every new piece of hardware or software on my old Widows machines. Perhaps Windows has gotten much, much better (my last system was '98), but it's too late. They lost me. I found a system that does everything I need it to do, with none of the hassles. My last Mac (also my first Mac) ran 24/7 and was never re-booted unless it left the house. I never de-fragged the hard drive. It was never behind a firewall. I had no virus protection. I just used it, day in and day out. Ran a business on it. Surfed. Shopped. Watched movies. Stored photos. Used it as a server for 1800 cds. I had a hard drive failure early on (dropped it) and Apple fixed it and restored my files. Never had another problem until the power supply started acting up, after 5 years, then I replaced it.
 
It didn't even slow down noticably over time. Try that with Windows.
 
p

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Maintenance is key, and not that hard for ANYONE.

It's not actually that hard at all.  The problem is that people think its too hard and never even try.  Because they never try, they never learn.  People need to have more faith in themselves.

 

[Soul_Est]

I hope my current experience will help you Hybrys as you have helped me in the past.
 
I currently own a September 2006 model MacBook (the first one to include the Core 2 Duo).  I got the system as I needed for school and it was the most affordable system at the time in that weight and size class (which is still very important).  I've had it for three years and have used it for practically everything I fancied doing.  This included 3D modeling, image manipulation, normal school work, and some programming.
 
I've also ran quite a few different operating systems on it including Open Solaris and OpenBSD.  Mac OS X still works the best in terms of power consumption and hardware control (or course) with Arch Linux a close second (once properly configured).  I've had three problems with the system for which two have been resolved: 1) A bulging battery which was easily replaced 2) The power adapter was replaced after the secondary winding on the transformer has shorted.  The third problem is the case itself as the plastic easily cracked along the left side of the computer.  Triple booting the MacBook was quite simple but it's a pain to deal with sometime.
 
I'll have to buy a new laptop which won't be a Mac due to my intended field of Computer Networking and as I've been singled out already for owning a Mac by my classmates (they keep asking about me using thermite on it; as if they'll pay for a new computer for me).
 
Sorry about the long story but I hope it helps you.

 

[mckinetic]

I've talked at least nine people into getting mac. Yep, you have to talk to the resistant ones, and not one, would go back. Also, as a side note, the main things you like in Win 7? Oh, well that is a clear copy of OS X. So you say what do I care, it's great to have the functionality right? Well, Win 7 is still playing catch up, wouldn't you rather use the originators box vs the reverse engineered one? I would. I love my mac, and the coolest thing of all, is if you don't know how to do something or need tech support, you schedule time with a mac genius and they help you out, in my case for free. Can't get that with Win 7. You pay for a Mercedes because you want to drive one or you can drive a very nice Pontiac G8, either way you will get what you paid for.

 

[cyberspyder]

^^Fanboy, but whatever, typical of a thread dealing with this subject. Buy if it's like, discounted. If not, go PC. The educational discounts are pretty sweet, buy the MBP and sell the free iTouch for some extra money.

 

[12thgear]

 
Quote:

Perhaps Windows has gotten much, much better (my last system was '98), but it's too late. They lost me. I found a system that does everything I need it to do, with none of the hassles. 

 
 
I hated 98 with a passion. Unstable, a pain to use, dreadful UI. At the time, I was also running Mac OS 9. If I'm being honest, those last days of the "classic" Mac OS were pretty poor. It was an easy to use system, but stability sucked. 
 
All I can say, is thank God for Mac OS X. And for Windows 7, the first Windows I get some enjoyment out of using. Stick with what you know and like, Phelonious, but if you ever get stuck with a PC running Win 7, I'll think you'll make it through without needing counseling.