[lxxl]

Interestingly, most of the windows slowing down and crashes that I experienced, aren't anything related to any of the internet explorer, but rather, the softwares that are installed with windows. Startup programs, plug-ins, are the ones to blame, it got a bit better in windows 7, but windows XP is totally unforgivable, I had to remove these "startup programs and plugins" only with a third party program. On the other hand, OSX doesn't seems to have this problem, most of these startups is a checkbox and easily removed.
 
If you have not aware, I also build my own PC, and install my own OS and programs, but if you ask me which OS is more stable and easiler to install, I would be lying to you if I tell you Windows is better OS. Last Windows XP that I installed, it took me 4+ hours, after updates and everything, and don't get me to start with Vista, haha.
 
For those that aren't a computer tech or have the knowledge, trying to run a stable system on windows is a bit more challenging then an OSX. If you are not experienced with OSX, there's a small learning curve and it'll take a little bit before you are used to it.

 

[xenochimera]

if you attend a liberal arts college and want to get laid by hipster/trendy girls, get a mac. otherwise, get any other brand.

 

[cyberspyder]

Quote:

Interestingly, most of the windows slowing down and crashes that I experienced, aren't anything related to any of the internet explorer, but rather, the softwares that are installed with windows. Startup programs, plug-ins, are the ones to blame, it got a bit better in windows 7, but windows XP is totally unforgivable, I had to remove these "startup programs and plugins" only with a third party program. On the other hand, OSX doesn't seems to have this problem, most of these startups is a checkbox and easily removed.
 
If you have not aware, I also build my own PC, and install my own OS and programs, but if you ask me which OS is more stable and easiler to install, I would be lying to you if I tell you Windows is better OS. Last Windows XP that I installed, it took me 4+ hours, after updates and everything, and don't get me to start with Vista, haha.
 
For those that aren't a computer tech or have the knowledge, trying to run a stable system on windows is a bit more challenging then an OSX. If you are not experienced with OSX, there's a small learning curve and it'll take a little bit before you are used to it.

 
TBH I think you're a bit biased. Break down why it took you 4 hours to install XP when I can do it in an hour including formatting time. And these 'startup programs' you speak of? Many have an option of not running, or you can easily disable them through the boot manager. Takes about, oh let's say, a minute of google time and a restart to fix.
 
Quote:

if you attend a liberal arts college and want to get laid by hipster/trendy girls, get a mac. otherwise, get any other brand.

You speak the truth.

 

[hockeyb213]

If you claim to be a huge power user why the heck are you on windows instead of flavors of linux? /confused

 

[utdeep]

Have you ever heard strong comments about a headphone from someone who has never used it before?  How credible do they appear?
 
Thank you for your thoughts.  Professionally, it's a compliment and we could always use a few more evangelists

 

[lxxl]

I probably started a flame, it always happens when Mac vs PC. Anyway...
 
I can install XP in about 45mins, it's the updates that needs to download and reboot, perhaps you have a newer windows XP then I do.
 
Yes you can definitely go into boot manager for most of the programs, but if you aren't as knowledgeable as you are, I bet you don't even have a clue what boot manager is. Sure google is great, however computer techs are still out there making a lot of money.
 
I have no interest with linux, however if you are willing to sell linux to the OP, write a guide for him, I am sure he'll consider for his work station.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

You can't replace the processor

"Hackers" say a lot of things. Many say the opposite. Believe me, there's enough incentive to make OSX look bad without the marketshare. Want to get on the front page of engadget and slashdot? There's been a target on OSX for years now. That 10% market share knows nothing about firewalls, antivirus protection, or full drive encryption... and that's the way Apple likes it. If someone can find a way to exploit that, they'd have access to an audience with greater disposable income and less computer awareness then the average Windows user. They'd never know what hit them. Who wouldn't want to wipe the smirk off Justin Long's face?

Most people don't use Macs. Those of us who do are addicted to the little features that make us happy. For me it's the following:
- The computer recognizing the different volumes needed when a headphone is plugged in
- The illuminated keyboard
- Two fingered right click and scrolling
- Uber quick boot and resume times
- High resale value. They only get updated once to two times an year. They are so easy to sell too.
- Literally hundreds of accessories made for this "minority". When I say accessories, I don't mean the computer type. You're right about the stupid dongles for other display standards. I wouldn't know... I don't think my apple cinema display has any of those other ports
- like it or not, people see a Mac, and they think you're the creative type with money to burn. They probably have a lot of negative thoughts too. Other brands don't have the same reputations. You and I might respect the power of an alienware laptop, but others see the glowing alien head and they've got no idea what it represents. My sister's at film school in USC... having a MacBook is almost a right of passage there

Other laptops have ALL these feature AND more. Us cultists just believe they come together better in a Macbook.

You've mentioned some of the negatives, so let me give you a few more:
- No SSD trim support. Get an SSD drive and it should slow down over time. Who knows when that's coming...
- "Blu-Ray is a bag of hurt"
- built in battery
- two USB ports on a 15 inch computer?
- on Tuesday mornings, you'll hit the refresh button on the apple store several times to see if it has gone down so Apple can introduce new products
- you'll end up responding to threads like these where you counter rational arguments with irrational ones. After you're done, you'll want to kiss your iPad. Then you'll probably look around and notice there are no non- Apple users in the coffee shop.

Seriously, if it's money and power you care about, look at the Envy or Thinkpad workstations. On pure specs and price, macbooks are overrated. However, I guarantee your curiosity will take you down this path someday soon. It's a lot like trying different headphones. Different 'phones for different folks.
 

I like your post quite a bit.  There are some good things, and some bad things.  (I will note, though, that Win7 also does the headphones vs speakers volume change.  XP, though, might not.)
 
OSX is really really not secure.  I did a demo for a few naysayers on a campus once.  Loaded up PHLAK, hacked the wireless access point (If you can really call it that.  In the end, the password was adminadmin...), and got admin level terminal access (Via a SSH/Telnet type bug/exploit) on OSX in minutes.  That was a long time ago though, and that bug has been fixed, I think.  Still, look up the hacking competitions.  As long as you have access and tailor-made coding, you have zero security.
 
I like to encourage thought, instead of ignorance.  If people were to learn about Windows instead of abandoning the thought and moving to Mac, it would not only have a better OS image, but less of a lot of cyber crime.
 
I've started this topic one other time, because I was interested.  It ended up, instead of this intelligent discussion, in being a big crying/flame war between Mac and Windows.  Unfair points, instead of fair points.  ("MY OS IS BETTER, AND LOOKS BETTER."  "...Sure, why?")
 
I might buy on pure specs.  And I might buy due to image.  It's going to depend on what I'm doing next year.  If I have an apprenticeship at the sound engineering place I currently have my eye on, then I'd be more inclined to buy a PC.  I can impress with my technique instead of my lack of price vs performance comparison.
 
Quote:

I didn't think Macs have better hardware, but models have the same hardware, and slightly above average (or more) quality for the parts we touch (casing, keyboard etc). But writing a software knowing the few parts of hardware from the models would definitely help stability of the programs (vs PC where programmers would have way too many hardware problems due to so many different types of hardware out there). Crashing is not fun, and it often happens on a PC more then a Mac (this would be a selling point to me if I don't know anything about computers).
 
Building your own PC would boost the quality of your computer, however programs will still crash due to too many different types of hardware and possibly the operation system.

Here's where I'm oddly confused, for a number of reasons.  Mostly just at your two posts, lxxl.  Macs do have better quality parts, for the parts that we touch (I could argue the keyboard, but, meh).  Is that really what we should aim for?  Exterior instead of interior?  That's like buying a TV for it's buttons.
 
Writing drivers for only a few hardware pieces is another thing that bugs me.  Think about the markup you pay to buy a Mac.  That money mostly goes to the OS.  Now think about a PC.  You get this decent OS with much better peripheral support out of the box, and less cost that can be attributed to the name/OS
 
Crashing isn't fun for anyone.  But, comparing my netbook to a brand new 2010 MBP 17", and you'd find the MBP crashes more. (!)  This is due to their devastating lack of Q&A regarding the video card switching method.  This has caused a LOT of hangs or complete crashes, plus Apple didn't tell their technicians about the problem for a long time.  So Apple 'Geniuses' and phone support were suggesting sending the laptops back, instead of waiting it out for a firmware fix.  This meant time and money spent by everyone involved, all in vein.
 
I don't know where you got the Win XP taking 4 hours, or being less reliable than Win7.  The only two most people will ever use are Win XP and Win7.  Also, the last time I installed Windows XP, I got a streamlined torrent with SP3, entered my own product key, and went off and away.  Took 25 minutes (I had it on a high speed USB stick) and I had it activated and out the door.  I will rely on either one any day.
 
Don't simply flame others (such as lxxl).  They're entitled to their opinion, and I could see XP taking that long to install, if you're on an older computer (P4-C D) and a moderate internet connection, from an original disk.  I know I had my own response to that section, but, atleast I said something more than 'You're dumb'.
 
Quote:

If you claim to be a huge power user why the heck are you on windows instead of flavors of linux? /confused

I've been asked this before.  I am a power user, and I theoretically should be on Linux, but I game casually, and can't find the compatibility I need from Linux.  Especially in laptops, Linux drivers are sometimes left behind, just due to the fact that it contains some small variant or 'rare' hardware that changes the way the kernel needs to address it.
 
I also like the way things work in Windows.  I like being able to hop in the registry and power through, knowing what I'm doing.  I like information overload, and power at my finger tips, but for the OS to not take much away from me.  I also like Windows/OSX's file structures, I dislike the whole virtual devices and double-mapping.
 
Mind you, maybe it is time for me to try it again as a workstation.  Ubuntu Studio piqued my interest a while ago, but I didn't find it to be to my liking.  If you can suggest something other than Ubuntu that is tailor made for Sound Design/Engineering/Playback, I'd happily look into it as another option.
 
I like the idea of keeping this in Windows vs OSX.  I love to tinker, but I don't want to have to when I'm trying to work.  Linux has it's own set of advantages and disadvantages (Mostly based on the fact that it's such an open environment), but I don't think it'll suit my nature as well.

 

[lxxl]

There are also antiviruses for mac too, I am running nod32 with my Macbook right now.
 
Appearance and feeling, they are very important, ask your girl friend for information (or yourself, about your girl friend).
 
I had a lot of bad experiences with windows crashing with multimedia programs, and so are many of my workmates, but most of them seems to go away when we work on a Mac. Macs do crash, but the ratio compare to PCs (different type) are beyond our expectation. Time is a factor for us, and if we had a lot of problems with crashing, we are losing money every second.

 

[cyberspyder]

Quote:

I like your post quite a bit.  There are some good things, and some bad things.  (I will note, though, that Win7 also does the headphones vs speakers volume change.  XP, though, might not.)
 
OSX is really really not secure.  I did a demo for a few naysayers on a campus once.  Loaded up PHLAK, hacked the wireless access point (If you can really call it that.  In the end, the password was adminadmin...), and got admin level terminal access (Via a SSH/Telnet type bug/exploit) on OSX in minutes.  That was a long time ago though, and that bug has been fixed, I think.  Still, look up the hacking competitions.  As long as you have access and tailor-made coding, you have zero security.
 
I like to encourage thought, instead of ignorance.  If people were to learn about Windows instead of abandoning the thought and moving to Mac, it would not only have a better OS image, but less of a lot of cyber crime.
 
I've started this topic one other time, because I was interested.  It ended up, instead of this intelligent discussion, in being a big crying/flame war between Mac and Windows.  Unfair points, instead of fair points.  ("MY OS IS BETTER, AND LOOKS BETTER."  "...Sure, why?")
 
I might buy on pure specs.  And I might buy due to image.  It's going to depend on what I'm doing next year.  If I have an apprenticeship at the sound engineering place I currently have my eye on, then I'd be more inclined to buy a PC.  I can impress with my technique instead of my lack of price vs performance comparison.
 

Here's where I'm oddly confused, for a number of reasons.  Mostly just at your two posts, lxxl.  Macs do have better quality parts, for the parts that we touch (I could argue the keyboard, but, meh).  Is that really what we should aim for?  Exterior instead of interior?  That's like buying a TV for it's buttons.
 
Writing drivers for only a few hardware pieces is another thing that bugs me.  Think about the markup you pay to buy a Mac.  That money mostly goes to the OS.  Now think about a PC.  You get this decent OS with much better peripheral support out of the box, and less cost that can be attributed to the name/OS
 
Crashing isn't fun for anyone.  But, comparing my netbook to a brand new 2010 MBP 17", and you'd find the MBP crashes more. (!)  This is due to their devastating lack of Q&A regarding the video card switching method.  This has caused a LOT of hangs or complete crashes, plus Apple didn't tell their technicians about the problem for a long time.  So Apple 'Geniuses' and phone support were suggesting sending the laptops back, instead of waiting it out for a firmware fix.  This meant time and money spent by everyone involved, all in vein.
 
I don't know where you got the Win XP taking 4 hours, or being less reliable than Win7.  The only two most people will ever use are Win XP and Win7.  Also, the last time I installed Windows XP, I got a streamlined torrent with SP3, entered my own product key, and went off and away.  Took 25 minutes (I had it on a high speed USB stick) and I had it activated and out the door.  I will rely on either one any day.
 
Don't simply flame others (such as lxxl).  They're entitled to their opinion, and I could see XP taking that long to install, if you're on an older computer (P4-C D) and a moderate internet connection, from an original disk.  I know I had my own response to that section, but, atleast I said something more than 'You're dumb'.
 

I've been asked this before.  I am a power user, and I theoretically should be on Linux, but I game casually, and can't find the compatibility I need from Linux.  Especially in laptops, Linux drivers are sometimes left behind, just due to the fact that it contains some small variant or 'rare' hardware that changes the way the kernel needs to address it.
 
I also like the way things work in Windows.  I like being able to hop in the registry and power through, knowing what I'm doing.  I like information overload, and power at my finger tips, but for the OS to not take much away from me.  I also like Windows/OSX's file structures, I dislike the whole virtual devices and double-mapping.
 
Mind you, maybe it is time for me to try it again as a workstation.  Ubuntu Studio piqued my interest a while ago, but I didn't find it to be to my liking.  If you can suggest something other than Ubuntu that is tailor made for Sound Design/Engineering/Playback, I'd happily look into it as another option.
 
I like the idea of keeping this in Windows vs OSX.  I love to tinker, but I don't want to have to when I'm trying to work.  Linux has it's own set of advantages and disadvantages (Mostly based on the fact that it's such an open environment), but I don't think it'll suit my nature as well.

I guess it's possible, but still 4 hours is pretty long if you ask me. And I didn't say or imply he was dumb. Rather, if people would spend a few minutes looking for a solution instead of getting pissed and leaving it expecting it to fix itself automatically, then one of the main points for owning  Mac goes bye-bye.
 
EDIT: (This ius for lxxl) Define crash. Macs crash as well, although it's a different kind of crash: App rather than OS. Windows might crash more, but rarely have I manage to crash the apps. I guess this is what Apple is trying to sell everyone on. Yes, they crash less, but the Apps are poorly coded compared to the OS, so the apps crash.
 

 

[utdeep]

Hybrys, it sounds like you have an open mind.  Again, it's hard to read your posts without feeling like they are slightly condescending (again, this is a "feeling").  Keep in mind that the majority of the people in your field will be using Macs for one reason or another.  Fanboy-ism in Mac users is far more obnoxious then with Windows users.  Also, you may miss out on some peer coaching opportunities without a Mac and you may not even have a choice once you're in the workforce.  The second you start hitting compatibility issues with files, you will be forced to make a switch.
 
Hopefully, you'll be judged by the caliber of your work and not by the computer you use  Good luck!  It's time for me to sign off this thread.

 

[cyberspyder]

This is where Bootcamp/Parallels come in...best of both worlds

.

 

[utdeep]

I'm a virtualbox fan myself  I use the same XP virtual machine in Windows 7, OSX, and Ubuntu.  Life is good.
 
But the bootcamp + parallels or fusion is nice too... if you want to pay for your virtualization

 

[Hybrys]

The minute you start talking about virtualization is the minute you lose everything.  A PC can run Hackintosh too, and in virtual environments aswell (if I recall).

 

[Skye]

I didn't take the time to read all of the above.
 
I'm studying audio at my school. Everyone there prefers Mac because it never crashes and it does wonderful things PC can't. The Macs at my school crash all the time and have all sorts of problems, and everything they do I can do easier on my PC. My PC isn't better, necessarily, but I know how to use it and I'm smart. My school is having troubles because it can't afford to upgrade its Mac computers when upgrading PC is easy and cheap, and you can do it yourself.
 
There are a couple of Mac specific programs, like Logic. But Pro Tools can do everything Logic does and more, although it sometimes requires a little more digging in the reference manual pdf, but when you do know how, it can do so much more. Pro Tools is the industry standard, and I personally feel it deserves this title. And Pro Tools works wonderfully on my PC.
 
I am currently interning under one of the best mastering engineers in the world. I feel very much so over my head at all moments. He has Macs and PCs scattered all over his house. He mostly uses Macs, but he mostly uses them running Windows. He has both plugged into his flat screen tv-as-computer-monitor, switchable as are the mouse and keyboard. I do see him doing most of his actual audio editing in Windows, though.
 
There's no best answer, no matter what people try to say. But I like Windows because it is cheaper, I can do what I want instead of being spoon-fed what I don't want, and because I can upgrade anything anytime myself. The upgrade parts are significantly cheaper for PC.
 
Did that help?

 

[cyberspyder]

So we're back to square one LOL.