[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShenaRingo326 /img/forum/go_quote.gif hey everyone, here's my attempt at translating the 2nd post, - after listening to different sources (music), it seems the X is better than the A - the included MDR-NC033 headphones were also not as good as the MDR-NC020 headphones included with the X --- this post was more difficult to understand.. so hopefully i've translated the parts correctly

Thanks very much for this ShenaRingo. So if the 'A' headphones were of a lesser quality than the X, maybe that would go some way to explain the discrepancy in sound between the two models. It's a shame he didn't have his own earphones to test with, it would have been a more accurate comparison.

 

[ppau0822]

^ im hoping that is one of the reasons why it sounds worse. it makes sense for sony to ship the X series with the better headphones. fingers-crossed

 

[bakhtiar]

Ok, here is my translation of the part 2, based on my rusted Japanese :and 'not that good' English

. I think it is almost similar to ShenaRingo326's post. Good work. Since I already worked it out, I post it here.

I hope everybody can get some points from it.

Quote:

The SQ review is 100% base on my opinions. .... bla ... we have different ears .... bla bla All the sound FXs, such as equalizer, noise cancelling, VPT, ... were disabled for both DAPs. For the SQ review, .... I will focus on Bass, Mid and treble. The DAP's specific differences might be exist, there will might be differences with his A847 and other's A847. I also have the X1060, and I gave "A" grade/mark for it, and there are chances where I might be 'bias' toward to the X. I also asked the Sony service center, and here, I published the 'official' reply from Sony. Q: A840 series has 'improved' S-Master HW. Is the A840's hw is better in term of 'noise floor', or better in term of SQ ? A: NW-A840 series S-Master amp, is THE SAME S-Master amp which is in the X1000 series. But, I felt differently. Honestly, I thought there was no differences between both DAPs' SQ, but, as soon as I listened to A847, I felt differently. Now let's check it ... From the official answer, "Both DAPs has the same amp", I though the differences was from the placebo effect. So I tried 2 cycles for 10 times, blind test, .... ... and, to me, it was not the placebo effect. So, initialy, I sort/ranked them as A847>X1060, then how it may changed during or after the review. The first difference is, the A847 SQ leaas toward brighter sound. This is the biggest differences when I did the blind test. I have the X1060 for half a year, and, I am not wrong about the X's treble. NOTE : A847 has more treble than X1060 A847's details .... 'naunce'. much detail than the X's. But, NOT the bass details. I can said that, the treble is 'noisy' or 'irritating'. The detail is high, and there treble is 'stressed out'/exaggrated,and anything which is lower than mid, is hard to 'came out'/produce. Note: A847 is brighter than the X From the X1060's POV, X1060 has better bass, wider sound stage and smoother than the A847. The X1060 has better ambiance, and perfect for listening to life performance. Each DAP has it's own pros and cons, I cannot ranked it. I am a person who love details, so I like to give 'A' for the one with better details, BUT, IMO, A847 sounded 'stressed', if I listened to it when I was exhausted or my ears were fatiged. .... About the 'noise floor', I tested with my most sensitive earphones, the MDR-EX700SL, and both are SAME. Both DAPs have pros and cons, at first impression, A847 has a better details, but, after listening to several sources, A847>X1060 is NOT correct. So, I am felt relieved IMO, do not match the bright headphones with A847. Eventhough you love treble, but, tho sound will be fatiguing, and I not recommended it. Finally, the stock A847 earphones, the MDR-NC033, seem to be not much better than the X1060's MDR-NC022. The reviewer talked about the earphones.. which I don't want to comment, since most of us will use our own 'reference' headphones/earphones.

The spdif signal also can be carried out from the WM-PORT and if Sony can can make some kind of converter, it will going to be very nice alternatives, because, it is very difficult or almost impossible to find a modern DAPS/PMP with SPDIF.

Thank you.

p/s: I am getting Unique Melody Mages. ETA, end of this month.

 

[david1978jp]

I was not able to get a response from original reviewer, so I will
summery main points.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sony confirms both have same S-master amp.

At first listen, A847 had more high frequency; but he felt after six months of listening, the high on X1060 became less.

Resolution (Nuance): A847 had better high frequency resolution. X1060 had better mid and low resolution, however, it was very small difference, close to no difference.

Low frequency, x1060 had more pronounced low, wider sound stage and more obvious/direct (speed, faster, precise, hit-the-mark). X1060 emphasized atmosphere, better for live performance.

Each one had its good and bad, so he can not pick preference. He preferred resolution of high frequency, but he did not use A847 when he was tired or his ears were not up-to-it. Although the difference was small, he can still notice the tiny difference.

White noise was still there, it did not change, no matter which ear phones he used (including high sensitive MDR-EX700SL).

They had their good and bad. he listened through difference sources (songs), he can not simply say A847 was better than x1060; he was actually relief.

It bothered him whether buy X-series or A-series. (The new S-series does not have S-master) he will buy A-series, although A-series is more expensive.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[ppau0822]

thanks to both Bakhtiar and david1978jp for the translations! much appreciated

could it be that the X sounded better because it had burned in for a whole six months? the author does mention that the treble of the X had decreased....tho i cant see it being that great of a drop, and maybe the A's will also smoothen out...but that doesnt explain the bass

 

[Buckster]

the S-Master "Amp" is a digital amp and DAC all on one chip is it not ?

so if same part I'd suggest they sound very similar ? ok there are other parts of the circuitry that could effect the SQ - but I think the whole point of the one chip design is to minimise the additional circuitry needed around it ? therefore scope for there being much of a difference is fairly slight (internal power supplies etc)

 

[Canman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckster /img/forum/go_quote.gif the S-Master "Amp" is a digital amp and DAC all on one chip is it not ? so if same part I'd suggest they sound very similar ? ok there are other parts of the circuitry that could effect the SQ - but I think the whole point of the one chip design is to minimise the additional circuitry needed around it ? therefore scope for there being much of a difference is fairly slight (internal power supplies etc)

I am not very knowledgable here but from what I understand the S-Master amp is a class D amplifier with a digital input. There would have to be a digital receiver to convert the raw signal into whatever format is required as input for the digital amp. So there should not be a separate DAC chip. Thinking along these lines, the 'Line Out' from the dock is probably the same signal that goes through the headphone out just with a fixed volume. All of this stuff could be on one chip, but I'm sure Sony does whatever is most efficient. There are probably other implementation variables besides the S-Master chip that impact the sound? Again I'm no EE so take my comments with a grain of salt.

 

[FenderP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by david1978jp /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was not able to get a response from original reviewer, so I will summery main points. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sony confirms both have same S-master amp. At first listen, A847 had more high frequency; but he felt after six months of listening, the high on X1060 became less. Resolution (Nuance): A847 had better high frequency resolution. X1060 had better mid and low resolution, however, it was very small difference, close to no difference. Low frequency, x1060 had more pronounced low, wider sound stage and more obvious/direct (speed, faster, precise, hit-the-mark). X1060 emphasized atmosphere, better for live performance. Each one had its good and bad, so he can not pick preference. He preferred resolution of high frequency, but he did not use A847 when he was tired or his ears were not up-to-it. Although the difference was small, he can still notice the tiny difference. White noise was still there, it did not change, no matter which ear phones he used (including high sensitive MDR-EX700SL). They had their good and bad. he listened through difference sources (songs), he can not simply say A847 was better than x1060; he was actually relief. It bothered him whether buy X-series or A-series. (The new S-series does not have S-master) he will buy A-series, although A-series is more expensive. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but after listening to the NW-X1060 and the NW-A847 at home and not on the road for the past month or two, I would 100% agree with the Japanses reviewer to a large degree. The soundstage is slightly (but not a ton) wider on the X, the X has better and more clear bass, but the A wins out in overall clarity and highs (but muddier bass). The difference is noticeable, not just when you're tired. The problem with the A847 is that futzing with EQ doesn't fix the bass, as you affect the mids to some degree and make it muddy.

At this point I'm trying to decide if I live with the lower capacity and IMO slightly better sound of the X, or keep the A with its bigger capacity and sound that is just a hair off of the X.

 

[ppau0822]

thanks FenderP for the confirmation. i have kind of got fed up with sony. deicded that portable audio wasnt good enough for me any way. tho i still might get the sflo 2

 

[FenderP]

Neither sounds bad - they're both good players, but it boils down to what you like in terms of a sonic signature. The X would be perfect with 64GB. I'd love to find a way to take the flash memory out of the A847 and put it in the X1060, but I'd probably break both in the process lol

 

[Phiber33]

Gotta agree! The X with 64gb - and various problems fixed/improved - would be a TREAT!

 

[nonsupremous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phiber33 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gotta agree! The X with 64gb - and various problems fixed/improved - would be a TREAT!

Very true...but the downside is Sony would probably charge 1200 dollars for it!

 

[kintsaki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenderP /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry to drag up an old thread, but after listening to the NW-X1060 and the NW-A847 at home and not on the road for the past month or two, I would 100% agree with the Japanses reviewer to a large degree. The soundstage is slightly (but not a ton) wider on the X, the X has better and more clear bass, but the A wins out in overall clarity and highs (but muddier bass). The difference is noticeable, not just when you're tired. The problem with the A847 is that futzing with EQ doesn't fix the bass, as you affect the mids to some degree and make it muddy. At this point I'm trying to decide if I live with the lower capacity and IMO slightly better sound of the X, or keep the A with its bigger capacity and sound that is just a hair off of the X.

FenederP please clarify for me in order to help me decide which one to buy.

I am considering an upgrade from my A818 and S739F

After a very long time with both of them I find the 739 lean and bright and immediately tiresome. In addition the difference is definitely there you don't need to get tired to perceive it, it is not huge but and this is a big but it is significant.

If this is the way you feel

(i.e. the 739-818 difference is of the same order as the X and new A series)

then please let me know and I wont think twice to get the X.

 

[Buckster]

if it helps I had the S639 and found it tiring, too bassy, and a bit too bright too

I now have an X (and a Touch) and I find the X far better than the S639 was - SQ wise

 

[FenderP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kintsaki /img/forum/go_quote.gif FenederP please clarify for me in order to help me decide which one to buy. I am considering an upgrade from my A818 and S739F After a very long time with both of them I find the 739 lean and bright and immediately tiresome. In addition the difference is definitely there you don't need to get tired to perceive it, it is not huge but and this is a big but it is significant. If this is the way you feel (i.e. the 739-818 difference is of the same order as the X and new A series) then please let me know and I wont think twice to get the X.

First, don't base any decision just on my word. I'm just giving my opinion.

I'm on a business trip this week and am only taking the A847, so I'll see how I get on with it as my only player. I had both on my last major trip and switched off.

So I'll know more from my perspective which I'll wind up keeping after this week.

However, I wouldn't say that your 730-818 difference is the same since the design of the A isn't that far off of the X, and the A does have some significant advantages over the X (namely the 64GB capacity).

I have had to set up new settings in my video ripping program because the X is 320x240 for display, but the A is 400x240. 320x240 videos don't look quite right on the A.

I also think you use will determine things as well - if you're on a plane or somewhere that you're not doing critical listening, it may not matter. If you mainly listen at home, it could be a whole other story.