[Albedo]

I find both these statements amusing..
 
SILVER AUDIO:

In order to argue that the affects of different cables are indeed perceptible to a keen listener, it is necessary to make a few small leaps of faith..

 
SJÖFN HIFI:

Jenving has patented this tin-shielding technology world-wide – assuring that Supra makes the only affordable low-inductance cable on the planet.
 

 
I see that a cable can be a tweak, philosophy differ.. so does plastic out-gassing, corrosion and oxidation.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

 I make the cables I use, have several headphone cables and some recabled headphones. To me it is easy to tell the difference in headphone cables. Will be listening to some LCD-2's this weekend and will have the ALO cable to play with again. How many more meets do I need to organize to prove my point? Only do it 4-5 times a year plus all the other ones I go to? When are the anti guys going to get of their computer and put their ideas to a crowd? Never seen one of their meets on the "Meet" forum?
 


 

Did you do a blind test at any of your meets? Lots of people have come from behind their computers and organised blind tests.
 

 

[alvin sawdust]

Believers have golden ears and thinner wallets, naysayers have cloth ears and fatter wallets, simples!

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

 
Your cocoon is better?  Is that what you're saying?  

 
Afterall, it's you who wrote, and in such boldened characters:
 
 

"If you can't show it, you don't know it."

 
Asking for evidence which may disprove my hypothesis is hiding in a cocoon.

Makes perfect sense!

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Asking for evidence which may disprove my hypothesis is hiding in a cocoon.

Makes perfect sense!
 
You speak to Beeman of being in a cocoon as if he's oblivious to it and he needs it pointed out to him.  Furthermore, you didn't convince him.
Why would it be any different for you while you're in a cocoon of your own and someone is pointing this out to you? Hmmm? 

  No one really thinks they're in a cocoon.  In fact, the last person to think he or she is in a cocoon is one accusing another of being in one!  So don't even try to convince me that I'm in one.  

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

Believers have golden ears and thinner wallets, naysayers have cloth ears and fatter wallets, simples!

 
I like this clever comment

 
An important part of the cable voodoo which leads people to spend a lot of money on pointless cables is the belief that they are among the "golden ears".
 
They don't understand how significant a role auto-suggestion plays in hearing, it is absolutely massive. As long as they know the expensive cable is the one they are using then they will indeed "hear" all these improvements.
 
To be honest I don't know to what extent the various alternative cables alter the sound, but I think it is tiny compared with a competently designed cable.
 
But I do know of the significance of auto-suggestion and the changes/improvements reported by the "golden ears" are, I think, a result of auto-suggestion.
 
The "golden ears" love the idea they they are part of some elite that can hear these "differences" but it is a very expensive conceit.

 

[beeman458]

I like this clever comment

 
An important part of the cable voodoo which leads people to spend a lot of money on pointless cables is the belief that they are among the "golden ears".
 
Two fallacies.  Fallacy one, thinking that buyers of custom cables don't have sufficient disposable income and somehow, buying a custom headphone cable is going upset the thickness of their money clip.  The second fallacy, saying that buyers of said cables think they have "golden ears."  Only people who can't hear a difference think either.
 

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

 
I like this clever comment

 
An important part of the cable voodoo which leads people to spend a lot of money on pointless cables is the belief that they are among the "golden ears".
 
They don't understand how significant a role auto-suggestion plays in hearing, it is absolutely massive. As long as they know the expensive cable is the one they are using then they will indeed "hear" all these improvements.
 
To be honest I don't know to what extent the various alternative cables alter the sound, but I think it is tiny compared with a competently designed cable.
 
But I do know of the significance of auto-suggestion and the changes/improvements reported by the "golden ears" are, I think, a result of auto-suggestion.
 
The "golden ears" love the idea they they are part of some elite that can hear these "differences" but it is a very expensive conceit.

I certainly don't think that I have golden ears.  I have a modded HiFace here that I can't tell the difference when compared to optical out on my system.  I'm now on another thread with others perplexed that I don't hear a difference when they do.
 
It's not conceit for me.  However, I can certainly see where you're coming from.  There's logic and science and then there's experience.  I'll see how this one pans out over the ensuing years.  I'm suspecting it's more than just the cable itself and also about the connectors.

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

Two fallacies.  Fallacy one, thinking that buyers of custom cables don't have sufficient disposable income and somehow, buying a custom headphone cable is going upset the thickness of their money clip.  The second fallacy, saying that buyers of said cables think they have "golden ears."  Only people who can't hear a difference think either.
 

 
Increasing I am becoming sympathetic to the voodoo cable manufacturers because their customers seem to deserve all they get.
 
beeman458 thinks that he hears a difference between the expensive voodoo cable and a competently designed cable. However this is not, of course, tested in a blind ABX test. I think if beeman458 were to test out his magic cable in a blind ABX test he might well discover that the differences he believes he hears are auto-suggestion.
 
Clearly beeman doesn't know how significant auto-suggestion is in hearing. beeman458 writes about "people who can't hear a difference", how foolish they are! Maybe those "people who can't hear a difference" are just very much more experienced in listening to music through audio equipment than beeman458 and know very well how easy it is too fool oneself into believing there is a difference when there is not?
 
It looks like beeman458 might well keep paying out more to the voodoo cable manufacturers. I hope beeman458 has a lot of disposable income and I suspect he well deserves all that he gets from those voodoo cable manufacturers.

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

I certainly don't think that I have golden ears.  I have a modded HiFace here that I can't tell the difference when compared to optical out on my system.  I'm now on another thread with others perplexed that I don't hear a difference when they do.
 
It's not conceit for me.  However, I can certainly see where you're coming from.  There's logic and science and then there's experience.  I'll see how this one pans out over the ensuing years.  I'm suspecting it's more than just the cable itself and also about the connectors.

 
Well, nobody of course has "golden ears"

 
I think you are absolutely right to keep an open mind. I think that the main issue with connectors is making sure they are clean!
 

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Increasing I am becoming sympathetic to the voodoo cable manufacturers because their customers seem to deserve all they get.
 
beeman458 thinks that he hears a difference between the expensive voodoo cable and a competently designed cable. However this is not, of course, tested in a blind ABX test. I think if beeman458 were to test out his magic cable in a blind ABX test he might well discover that the differences he believes he hears are auto-suggestion.
 
Clearly beeman doesn't know how significant auto-suggestion is in hearing. beeman458 writes about "people who can't hear a difference", how foolish they are! Maybe those "people who can't hear a difference" are just very much more experienced in listening to music through audio equipment than beeman458 and know very well how easy it is too fool oneself into believing there is a difference when there is not?
 
It looks like beeman458 might well keep paying out more to the voodoo cable manufacturers. I hope beeman458 has a lot of disposable income and I suspect he well deserves all that he gets from those voodoo cable manufacturers.

 
Hah.  Many will not only sell these voodoo cables.  They also sell a lot of voodoo gear that's loaded with autosuggestion as well.  So if they don't get you with the cables, they get you good with the other gear.  

  In this audio thing, we should each be busy watching our own pockets and I generally don't take buying advice from fellow fanatics who direct their own interests in different directions.  While laughing at another, your own pocket could be being royally fleeced.  All those multi-thousand dollar amps and dacs anyone?  If it's not one, then it's the justice and excuses for having 4 different ones that come up to many thousands?  A voodoo cable comes up to chicken feed in comparison.  The conning and tom foolery knows no bounds in audio and the world of addictions in general.  It's one to be technical, but it's another to take the intellectual high ground.

 

[beeman458]

Patrick wrote:
 
I hope beeman458 has a lot of disposable income...
 
That's very kind of you.  And I hope you have a lot of disposable income also.
 
Patrick, you forget that auto-suggestion is a two-way street.  Not only have I not been usurped by auto-suggestion, but it's clear that you have.
 
I'll be happy to let you prove that you haven't.  Irrespective, you're more then welcome to keep the dream alive.
 
As to your continued efforts regarding my taking a DBT, there's no point as I've stated many times before, I already know I'll fail.  Why?  Because the tests, for many past stated reasons, are flawed and are designed to assure fail.  Maybe you've been fooled by the validity of audio DBT's, but I haven't.  I'm truly sorry that you've been lured by faulty reasoning but be happy, my money is safe as I have no need to buy any more cables as I have a boatload of them.  The good news, quality cables, unless broken, never get old.
 

 
(I do need to buy a cheap set to get me over as I just received a new (used) DAC and need some RCA connects and my high end connects are at the retirement home.)

 

[Skoobs]

DBTs are designed to fail? how do they fix a DBT? neither the listener or the guy doing the test could, or it wouldnt be DB. now THAT is voodoo.
 
on that note, i would bet money that i could tell the diff between some stock cables and a moderately priced cable if i were to take place in a DBT.
 
but now we are on to arguting bigger, better things. like whether a DBT between a cable that costs a grand would yield results when stacked up against a cable that costs a couple hundred. in my opinion the result wold be that there would be no difference. If there is a difference, then it would be exactly that. the sound would be different. not necessarily better. the listener might actually like the sound of the cheaper cable better.
 
build quality, like was said already, does come in to play though.

 

[tmars78]

Dude, good luck with this. We've all been down this path with him. He's just too stubborn, and won't admit that the tests don't jive with what he believes, so therefore it must be the tests fault. 
 
Quote:

DBTs are designed to fail? how do they fix a DBT? neither the listener or the guy doing the test could, or it wouldnt be DB. now THAT is voodoo.

 

[Landis]

Cables are sickeningly expensive for no good reason... We sell a $400 cable at work and do you know what it costs me? $40 - $50 and I'm quite sure there's still good mark up there.
 
If you have a vintage headphone that possibly has oxidization within the cable, then get it recabled for a decent price. I noticed the speaker wire on a pair of my father's old speakers were oxidized to crap (green and black through and through) and it did indeed sound quite better once replaced with about $0.10 worth of speaker wire but that wire was probably there for about 10-20 years.
 
Spend that money on other headphones, amps, DACs or music to support your artists!