[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlineng /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with everything you said except for this. If someone with the proper skill and inclination decided to copy Larry's design and undercut his business, I think the market would respond positively. As we have seen in this thread, there are plenty of people who aren't happy with Larry for whatever reason.

Yup, I think people would be unhappy for a few months at most...but then no one would care.

It's basic economics principles...if there's profit to be made someone will enter the market

 

[milkpowder]

carlineng & deathwish238, I'm thinking the same too. If the 'replicas' are better sounding, looking or priced, then I really wouldn't see why they wouldn't be successful. Sure, stealing another person's ideas to use as your own is immoral (as agreed upon by many who have posted on this thread) but I'm guessing most normal human beings would rather pay less for something of similar quality or the same amount for something of better quality. That said, there is a sort of brand recognition that Larry has built up. Hence even if they were to be replicated and sold, I don't think Larry's business would be in any danger at all. So and so's version of woodied DT770s is not the same as owning a Headphile Darth Beyer V3.

 

[wrecked_porsche]

Following the logic of some people in this thread, KFC should expose their 11 secret herbs and spices since there is nothing new about catching and frying chickens together with herbs and spices that are naturally found in nature right? Maybe then someone could sell cheaper KFC with some "inovation". Maybe they could fry roosters only instead of chickens with the same herbs and spices right?

Can you imagine how difficult it is to put the right combination of herbs and spices together so that the chicken tastes yummy? Now relate that to headphile.

I'd give more weird examples that go along with the above line of flawed thinking... but I just find this thread really weird. All the fuss over nothing.


Like Oficer Barbrady would say:

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif Following the logic of some people in this thread, KFC should expose their 11 secret herbs and spices since there is nothing new about catching and frying chickens together with herbs and spices that are naturally found in nature right? Maybe then someone could sell cheaper KFC with some "inovation". Maybe they could fry roosters only instead of chickens with the same herbs and spices right?

Yum Brands doesn't get all up in your face if you posit theories about what those 11 herbs and spices are.

People propose recipes and post them on websites, and people try them at home, and probably even try and sell it - but as long as they don't claim it's actual KFC, Yum Brands leaves them alone and keeps cranking out quality product of their own.

Oh, and you've eaten more rooster than you'll ever know.

 

[wrecked_porsche]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh, and you've eaten more rooster than you'll ever know.

LOL

That was really funny and came out of no where. I didn't see that one coming.
I LOLed!

 

[ericj]

Hey, i mean, if you're sitting there in the KFC, and say, "I think there might be some tarragon in this", the colonel doesn't jump out and tell you to shut the F up about f'in tarragon or else.

(About the rooster thing - PETA would have you believe that male chicks born on egg farms are tossed into a wood chipper or something, but it just aint true.)

 

[wrecked_porsche]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, i mean, if you're sitting there in the KFC, and say, "I think there might be some tarragon in this", the colonel doesn't jump out and tell you to shut the F up about f'in tarragon or else.

I tried to imagine what that scene would look like. LOL, now I wish I hadn't. I was picturing the fat colonel jump out from behind a KFC thrash bin and start yelling and cursing... I'm gonna get nightmares when I go to sleep in a few minutes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif (About the rooster thing - PETA would have you believe that male chicks born on egg farms are tossed into a wood chipper or something, but it just aint true.)

What does happen to the males actually? All the videos I've seen of chicken farms(not that I actively search for chicken farm videos mind you!

) soo far only have the females in there... Hmmm...

CONSPIRACY!

 

[milkpowder]

Can you patent a recipe? If not, I don't think why someone shouldn't make their own KFC flavoured fried chicken at home. Actually even if it was a patented recipe, would you stop making your KFC flavoured fried chicken for lunch? For personal non-commercial gains, I don't see why there's something wrong. For commercial gains, you'd probably get into trouble if you sold patented stuff.

 

[wrecked_porsche]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you patent a recipe? If not, I don't think why someone shouldn't make their own KFC flavoured fried chicken at home. Actually even if it was a patented recipe, would you stop making your KFC flavoured fried chicken for lunch?

Precisely why KFC won't EVER give out their recipe!

Need more be said?

 

[ericj]

I don't think you can - they're pretty much trade secrets.

it's alleged that the Dr. Pepper recipe is stored in two separate secure locations.

of course in cooking and most other forms of chemistry, process is at least as important as composition, if not more important. You could determine the exact components, but still not be able to make the same product unless you figure out the exact process as well.

 

[oicdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif He gives none. You have no clue what he does besides the recabling & woodies.. In regards to his Darth mods.. If you pay 340 plus you should know whats being done to your headphones.. He doesn't need to go into detail, but a quick explanation would do.. How about getting your car fixed & the guy fixing your cars tells you nothing? Personally I don't believe in 'secrets' in regards to this field.. But keeping it secret does add mystery & intrigue, & makes it sound special & unique. I'm sure many use Larry's same 'secrets'.

You can replace 'mystery' with 'hype' and that sentence still works. Not saying his products are all hype and no sound, but there definitly is alot surrounding these headphones. And obviously, they're not to EVERYBODY'S liking as some people have actually stated so. So yeah, that word can be used in this instance.

Somebody mentioned ingredients in a can of Coke. Yes, you see all the ingredients there, but like I said earlier. You can take all those ingredients and make your own soda. Yeah, it may be a "copy" of coke, but does it taste the same? Some people may actually PREFER YOUR SODA OVER COKE!!!! Then it's not really a copy is it? Atleast with Coke you can see all the ingredients, atleast you know What is there, with Darths you have no idea what's done other than the obvious.

 

[grawk]

Ok, for the original poster: what larry does is this: He recables the headphones with either his black max, black silver, or black gold cables, which are his own combination of copper and silver, in varying gauges, depending on what he thought sounded best. He then carves replacement cups out of wood, in shapes that his experimentation he found to sound the way he wanted them to sound. These are then dampened in the method he discovered to have the results he was looking for.

That information is all readily available on his website. As to the specific methods he uses, materials he uses in what ratios, etc, that's his business. If you like what he does, buy them, if not, don't. His target market is people that like the asthetics of what he does. For the most part, the sound improves, but them major benefit comes from how they look, and many people appreciate that about them. I know I think my Headphile HF1s with Zebra cups look spectacular, and that's why I bought them. That they sound significantly better to me is a benefit, but I had the work done for the appearance.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Rude? I've dealt with few people who were pleasant and accommodating. He might have been preempted on creating woody by the likes of Sony and Audio-Technica, but I'm not aware of anyone who was building DIY woody headphones before he did, and certainly not to the level of quality (though quite a few have followed in his wake, coincidence?). I helped him develop his first woodies (for the CD3000) years before you were ever a member here. Larry's dedication to his craftsmanship and customer service make him one of the last businesspeople on Head-Fi I would have imagined to come under such absurd and ridiculous scrutiny, for normal business practices. Making a DT770 sound better is not magic, I assure you (and no, I am not privy to Larry's methods). If you want to do so, just use your brain and the resources at your fingertips (i.e. the internet), and I am sure any barely competent human could get quite a good idea of how to proceed, or at least experiment. And just as the guy who set out to duplicate a local restaurant's "secret" BBQ sauce, perhaps you will find an even better "recipe."

So he was the first ever to do DIY woodies?

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif Precisely why KFC won't EVER give out their recipe! Need more be said?

And I never said that KFC or Larry should give away their secret recipes. I don't think that KFC or Larry are obliged to tell us how to make and/or with what ingredients. Fine, it might be a legal obligation for food manufactures to list the ingredients, but because there is no equivalent law in the manufacturing world. Anyway, I feel like I've been repeating myself over and over again, so here is a summary of what I believe:

1) Larry does not need to tell us the methods and specifics regarding the materials used to make his Darth Beyers and neither does he need to justify the value of his services. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. That's what meets are for.

2) The information shown on Larry's website is enough for potential customers to make informed decisions.

3) Yes, I would like more transparency regarding the specifics of his products. I also understand that it is the (inquisitive) nature of an educated community like Head-Fi to want to find out "how things work".

4) Buying his products and reverse engineering is perfectly acceptable as long as the information is kept to oneself, or at least not used for personal financial gain. Reverse engineering in itself is morally correct in my opinion.

5) Reverse engineering Larry's products, using that information to sell similar (or improved/altered) products and services for profit is morally incorrect in my opinion. However, I don't feel it is necessarily a bad thing. I'm guessing it happens a lot in the business world...

6) Competition may very well drive/speed up advancements/improvements.

7) Reverse engineering Larry's products and posting specifics on to a public domain is morally wrong in my opinion. However, I don't think doing so would actually have a major impact on Larry's business at all. Larry's fame and image will continue to attract customers. Also, most people wouldn't have the skills, tools, materials or time to make proper replicas anyway.

8) With the specifics of the modifications on Head-Fi, other experienced DIY'ers could probably offer their help and advice regarding how something could be improved. There have been instances where this has turned out to be a positive thing (eg Kevin Gilmore's amp designs being modified and improved on by the likes of HeadAmp, WooAudio, etc)

 

[grawk]

With regard to #8, Dr Gilmore has granted permission to headamp and woo to use and tweak his designs. Try using one of his designs commercially without permission and see what his response is...

It's easy to disregard the value of intellectual property if you don't have any of your own.