[Tuberoller]

In this case I think a full refund, including return shipping, is warranted.I see it as the only way to clear my consious and reputation here.

I'll add that I have never sent out any item without first opening the box.If I sent out a component and the buyer found something to be missing(like a remote)then I am sure he would blame me for not checking.This has happened before.When I ship tube gear I always open and test it before I ship it out.Most of my dealer friends do the same thing.

This kind of thing strongly discourages me from doing business via the net or over the phone.On top of having gear stolen from me,I deal with people who want large discounts based on their perceptions of what I should make on a sale.I hate to complain on an open forum about this type of thing but the small profits I make doing this are really not worth the headaches involved.I need to reflect on this for a while.

 

[acs236]

I just want to add that (in case I wasn't clear) I don't think Tuberoller did anything wrong here, and if I implied that at all, I didn't mean to. I view this as a case of (a not so simple) misunderstanding.

Personally, Tuberoller, I would prefer to have most projects checked out by the vendor prior to sale. I hope this experience doesn't sour you from doing business online or over the phone, but I can see how it might.

 

[Magicthyse]

I'd say I agree with the potential buyer on what would constitute new and unused - I'd expect any seals to be intact.

But for him to get so worked up about it, especially when you've explained it and when he's saving $100 on retail - is odd. If he wanted new and new, he shoulda gone to a shop and slapped down the greenbacks at list!

 

[acidtripwow]

I just want to say that I have met Tuberoller personally a few times and he is one of the nicest guys I have ever met. He goes out of his way to help people like he has done for me in the past. This is a very ****ed up world we live in and when you come across an outstanding person like this you should consider yourself lucky to have met them. I have sold some things in the past and I can say that I have come across some very nasty people like this buyer seems to be. They want everything for free. Like the guy I just sold some DVDs to for $4 each including shipping and he wanted me to send them USPS right away because he is going on vacation. Sorry, but that's just not going to happen. Tuberoller, some people just want to take advantage of your kindness and don't care about being a decent human being. As I get older I have less and less patience for people like this.

 

[jpelg]

I am sure that Tuberoller did not do anything intentionally deceiptful, and we all appreciate his efforts. That being said however, the term "New in box" and/or "unused" implies an unopened box including all manufacturer supplied accessories and warranty cards, unless otherwise specified. If that is not the case, then where exactly does the term "used" begin to apply? Is it after you break the taped seal on a cardboard box? Or is it after you remove the item from the box for inspection of the contents but reinsert immediately? Or is it the point where the headphone pads actually touch your ears? What if the 1/4" adapter is not inside the box?

I am still curious how the buyer was able to ascertain this information after the item was shipped but before he actually received it. How can this be? Sounds a little strange (or psychic) to me.

After all that has been said, the buyer received a perfectly functional, "practically" brand new pair of 325's in perfect condition for under two c-notes. In the immortal words of Lt. Kindrick, "I would prefer you just say thank you, and be on your way".

My .02

 

[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by acidtripwow I just want to say that I have met Tuberoller personally a few times and he is one of the nicest guys I have ever met. He goes out of his way to help people like he has done for me in the past. This is a very ****ed up world we live in and when you come across an outstanding person like this you should consider yourself lucky to have met them. I have sold some things in the past and I can say that I have come across some very nasty people like this buyer seems to be. They want everything for free. Like the guy I just sold some DVDs to for $4 each including shipping and he wanted me to send them USPS right away because he is going on vacation. Sorry, but that's just not going to happen. Tuberoller, some people just want to take advantage of your kindness and don't care about being a decent human being. As I get older I have less and less patience for people like this.

[/size]

Again, I think there was an understandable misunderstanding. To color either of these individuals as not being a "decent human being" would be unfair. I don't think the seller wanted the headphones "for free". I really do think both the seller and the buyer entered into this transaction with good intentions. I don't think the seller was trying to take advantage of the buyer, and I don't think the buyer was trying to take advantage of the seller.

Though I don't know either the buyer or seller personally, I "know" them both through the forums -- they're both longtime Head-Fi'ers. Again, I don't think either are being dishonest or malicious in this situation.

 

[Tuberoller]

I did not mention the box had been opened until a later email after they had been sent.I did not think that the fact the the box had been opened was significant considering that the phones have never been used.I mentioned it later when I told him that I had sent the warranty card in.

I do not want to mislead anyone to believe that this person is a bad guy.His expectations are different than mine would be and I suppose other people's as well.I recently bought a very expensive camera from an online retailer.I recieved the box with an obviously broken seal,I called to find out why and the phone rep told me that all outgoing packages are inspected for content.I found that acceptable and have been enjoying my camera since.I guess that if I continue doing this is should not open or inspect packages before I send them out.


BTW,I called Grado today and was told all warranties are transferrable and most phones are repaired or replaced free of charge anyway as long as obvious abuse is not evident.

 

[aeberbach]

Best course of action Tuberoller is to give the guy his money back, including shipping, and be done with it. And if he still wants to complain after you offer that then he just likes complaining and you'll never make him happy. If he doesn't want the refund then what else can you do?

Last time someone asked me for a refund I had sold a pair of Athlon MP processors. The guy emailed me after he received them to say that one was not working and he demanded a refund. I said fine, just send it back so I can see that you didn't smash the die while installing it, the picture on eBay had shown a pair of perfect processors. Strangely enough I never heard from him again...

 

[M Rael]

Offer to give him his money back (not shipping), but only if he can prove he did not use the headphones while he had them or open the box.

Theres a difference between a misunderstanding and deliberate falsehood. For this guy to shoot from the hip and accuse you of the latter is incorrect, and if I were you I would not be disposed to treat him with kid gloves after that.

 

[lini]

Tuberoller: I'd read "new in the box" as unused, but maybe taken out of the box for inspection by the dealer or another/previous customer. If a want a "virginal", unopened box as a coustomer, I state that clearly and before making the deal. So I don't think your customer should have any problem with your behaviour in that point.

The only problematic point is the warranty, I guess. But if you've informed your customer about your already filled in warranty card before purchase, that should be no problem either.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: I'd read "new, originally packaged" as unused and unopened, though...

 

[andrzejpw]

Personally, you put money in with the headphones. If he wants to return them, tell him to use that money.

Back to the new vs used dilemma, this thread has changed my viewpoint a bit. Whenever I see "new in box," I think it's brand new, virgin, etc. But tuberoller, as a dealer, makes a very good point. Maybe he just wanted to check out if everything was in order, etc! If the warranty is transferable, you did him a favor! And the phones are still "new."

 

[DanG]

I haven't read all of the replies, but my suggestion would be to send him his money back and post negative feedback on the buyer here on Head-Fi. It may seem harsh but it helps all those who want to sell or buy items here on Head-Fi. Though it seems more important to "review" sellers considering there are more responsibilities on their end, nobody wants a deadbeat buyer or somebody who's not going to be at all reasonable. If that person wants to defend himself he can post a reply to your complaint against him.

 

[mbriant]

I would interpret "New in Box", without any further qualification, to mean "Brand New, unopened, sealed, untouched". On E-Bay, sellers will often mention that a product is "New", but had been removed from the box for photography only.

Even knowing the box has been opened, doesn't eliminate the possibility that the item had indeed been used for days/weeks/months and simply kept clean and put back in the box. At least if the buyer knows the box is opened.....up front..... they can decide beforehand whether or not to trust the seller's claim of "new" and buy/not buy accordingly.

From tuberoller's history at Head-Fi, I personally would have no trouble trusting him...but you can't expect everyone to.

Perhaps the buyer did somewhat over-react....yet I can understand his concern....especially since the warranty card was gone.

 

[williamgoody]

I agree with Mbriant. To me there is "New in the box" and there is "Unopened". More often than not if that's the case, seller's will use the term "unopened" because of the added value something in that condition would bring.

Buyer Beware! We've all heard that saying, and that's true. There are people out there trying to swindle people. Regardless of the responsibilities of the seller, It's still up to the buyer to determine their criteria for why they would or wouldn't buy something, and if the info doesn't meet the criteria one way or the other, I would think you would ask about those questions to gain the info needed, or pass on the sale. That what feedback is for, in case you have a question about a seller. And all he really had to do was check out your amount of posts in this forum to check on reputability, no one would post over 500 times on a forum if they were not welcome there. If you had these for three months and the buyer knew this I certainly think it's reasonable that the box would've been opened.

For him to be upset that you didn't offer him free shipping or paypal options as you did in later sales is somewhat outrageous. You are not a store and shouldn't be treated as such. He agreed to a deal, and you have sent him the shipping money back. You didn't try to swindle him. How long has he had the headphones? Is he happy with them? Whether I'd offer a refund to him or not would be determined by those answers.

 

[mbriant]

I just looked up the actual listing and see that the item was advertised as:

"New in box...and unused"

The term "unused" would be redundant if the box was sealed, so there was obviously no attempt to fool anyone.

However, it still is a little vague.